Propose the gospel, don't impose it

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I just finished Weigel’s JPII biography. It’s great! Highly recommended.

One of the points that Weigel frequently made was that it was always JPII’s strategy to propose the glorious truth of the gospel and demonstrate its power and wonder in every area of church teaching and morality rather than to rely on imposing the church’s authority as the reason to obey.

I just finished a thread where somebody came here to ask a question that was bothering her, got an iron fisted authoritative response and was disgusted.

That’s a shame. I think we all ought to try to imitate our late holy father and propose the glorious truth of catholicism in positive terms, not beat people on the head with condemnations for their confusion or dissent. It’s a lot harder, but in the end more effective!

Obedience is a good thing for oneself. But it makes for a poor arguing point in our modern culture of individualism and dissent.
 
Anyone who wishes to receive the graces offered by holiness, must be met with gentleness. It’s what Jesus demonstrated. But in His wisdom He also reminded people that they must turn away from sin and return to the gospel.

Unfortunately, for some people they want it all…God in heaven and their own agenda whether it be money, lifestyle etc…and Jesus said that was impossible. “You cannot serve both God and mammon”

I think that’s where people become turned off. Not that there are rules that are offered to lift you up from the quagmire, but they believe that the rules are there to put you into an intolerable situation. So they opt the path of least resistance…their own agenda, when it reality it never ever works.

I am glad that this book helps explain things. But I truly believe we also need the comfort of knowing that the church is and was the same now and forever when it comes to interpreting God’s commandments. No gray area.

And like St.Frances of Assisi who said…preach often and when necessary use words…I think that works remarkably well for me.
 
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manualman:
I just finished Weigel’s JPII biography. It’s great! Highly recommended.

One of the points that Weigel frequently made was that it was always JPII’s strategy to propose the glorious truth of the gospel and demonstrate its power and wonder in every area of church teaching and morality rather than to rely on imposing the church’s authority as the reason to obey.

I just finished a thread where somebody came here to ask a question that was bothering her, got an iron fisted authoritative response and was disgusted.

That’s a shame. I think we all ought to try to imitate our late holy father and propose the glorious truth of catholicism in positive terms, not beat people on the head with condemnations for their confusion or dissent. It’s a lot harder, but in the end more effective!

Obedience is a good thing for oneself. But it makes for a poor arguing point in our modern culture of individualism and dissent.
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AMEN brother!

If we’re only doing things out of obedience, there is no real merit. It is similar to Jesus saying “If you only love your friends, what merit is there in that; do not the pagans do as much?” Fear does not bring one to love of God, which is what our whole journey is supposed to be about. If the obedience is not the RESULT of the love of God, I would propose that it is almost worthless as it is an attempt to “buy your way into heaven” through “worthiness” and we all know we can’t do that.

If the Truth you are selling isn’t beautiful in and of itself, and people aren’t seeing it lived out joyfully, they ain’t gonna buy it, and one might actually end up being responsible for driving someone away from God rather than bringing them to Him. I for one don’t want to have to answer for that one. :nope:

Peace,
 
Actually obedience FOR ONESELF is not necessarily barren. I was obedient to church teaching on contraception for well over a year before I became joyfully embracing of it. For me, the obedience lead to understanding.

But in a discussion with someone with doubts, it sure works better to hold up the light, than to hold up a club.
 
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manualman:
Actually obedience FOR ONESELF is not necessarily barren. I was obedient to church teaching on contraception for well over a year before I became joyfully embracing of it. For me, the obedience lead to understanding.

But in a discussion with someone with doubts, it sure works better to hold up the light, than to hold up a club.
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I don’t disagree with you, but I’ll bet that your obedience wasn’t out of fear. Even in the absence of understanding, my obedience will take the form of “I don’t understand Lord, but I’m going to trust you on this one.” That is still an obedience out of love, out of which often (but not always unfortuntately) comes understanding over time.

And of course I totally agree with you about holding up the light for those with doubts. As stbruno said below in quoting St Francis (a personal favorite of mine for some reason 🙂 ) “Preach the gospel always; use words if necessary.” That’s the only reason I ended up back in the Church–I found people joyfully living the gospel, instead of just talking about God, and it was too beautiful to resist.

Peace,
 
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manualman:
I just finished Weigel’s JPII biography. It’s great! Highly recommended.

One of the points that Weigel frequently made was that it was always JPII’s strategy to propose the glorious truth of the gospel and demonstrate its power and wonder in every area of church teaching and morality rather than to rely on imposing the church’s authority as the reason to obey.

I just finished a thread where somebody came here to ask a question that was bothering her, got an iron fisted authoritative response and was disgusted.

That’s a shame. I think we all ought to try to imitate our late holy father and propose the glorious truth of catholicism in positive terms, not beat people on the head with condemnations for their confusion or dissent. It’s a lot harder, but in the end more effective!

Obedience is a good thing for oneself. But it makes for a poor arguing point in our modern culture of individualism and dissent.
Click to expand...
Yes, there are way too many people on this forum who beat people over the head with the rules - the “letter” of the law. Most seem to know little about the “spirit” of the law. Jesus was merciful and compassionate and we need to be as well.
 
An important nuance: Jesus told his followers in final instruction to “preach” the gospel, in contradistinction to “propose” the gospel.To “propose” carries a weaker, “take it or leave” connotation that does not convey the crucial life or death stakes at hand as does “preach”. Likewise, to “preach” carries more a firm purpose and end in mind, while of course the “preacher” should artfully tailor and temper the gospel presentation to most effectively reach the audience where they are at.

“And he said to them, "Go into all the world and** preach **the gospel to the whole creation.” Mark 16:15

**Propose, defn; **


  1. *]To put forward for consideration, discussion, or adoption; suggest: propose a change in the law.
    *]To recommend (a person) for a position, office, or membership; nominate.
    *]To offer (a toast to be drunk).
    *]To make known as one’s intention; purpose or intend: proposed to buy and run a farm.

    **Preach, defn; **

    v 1: deliver a sermon; “The minister is not preaching this Sunday” 2**: speak, plead, or argue in favour of**; “The doctor advocated a smoking ban in the entire house”
 
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manualman:
Obedience is a good thing for oneself. But it makes for a poor arguing point in our modern culture of individualism and dissent.
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Good point, as in knowing the audience whom you speak to and how to most effectvely reach that person with the truth of the gospel.

An important nuance: Jesus told his followers in final instruction to “preach” the gospel, in contradistinction to “propose” the gospel.To “propose” carries a weaker, “take it or leave” connotation that does not convey the crucial life or death stakes at hand as does “preach”. Likewise, to “preach” carries more a firm purpose and end in mind, while of course the “preacher” should artfully tailor and temper the gospel presentation (use words if necessary) to most effectively reach the audience where they are at.

“And he said to them, "Go into all the world and** preach **the gospel to the whole creation.” Mark 16:15

**Propose, defn; **

  1. *]To put forward for consideration, discussion, or adoption; suggest: propose a change in the law.
    *]To recommend (a person) for a position, office, or membership; nominate.
    *]To offer (a toast to be drunk).
    *]To make known as one’s intention; purpose or intend: proposed to buy and run a farm.

    **Preach, defn; **

    v 1: deliver a sermon; “The minister is not preaching this Sunday” 2**: speak, plead, or argue in favour of**; “The doctor advocated a smoking ban in the entire house”
 
I will take the recommendation to heart. But please bear in mind that this is easier said than done. So patiently remind me whenever you see me lapse into hamhandedness.
 
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manualman:
I just finished Weigel’s JPII biography. It’s great! Highly recommended.

One of the points that Weigel frequently made was that it was always JPII’s strategy to propose the glorious truth of the gospel and demonstrate its power and wonder in every area of church teaching and morality rather than to rely on imposing the church’s authority as the reason to obey.

I just finished a thread where somebody came here to ask a question that was bothering her, got an iron fisted authoritative response and was disgusted.

That’s a shame. I think we all ought to try to imitate our late holy father and propose the glorious truth of catholicism in positive terms, not beat people on the head with condemnations for their confusion or dissent. It’s a lot harder, but in the end more effective!

Obedience is a good thing for oneself. But it makes for a poor arguing point in our modern culture of individualism and dissent.
Click to expand...
Awesome post. This hits on one of the key characteristics of the Catholic Church. Almost all my experiences with priests and other clergy are non-judgmental, non-confrontational, but rather gentle, persuasive, persistent, consistent and undoubtedly backed up with prayer… If you go to those poor shelters, the Catholic Church is never the one trying to lay hands on patrons, or force them to attend mass before getting soup. They just serve, and pray that the seeds they plant will grow over time.
 
That’s what Mother Theresa’s order is doing in Saudi Arabia today. Even though any other religion other than Islam is allowed there…and punishable by death, the good sisters were invited and are able to feed the poor, clothe the naked etc…
 
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