Pros and Cons of our Catholic Faith

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HumbleObedience:
Today I went to daily Mass and a lady I know lashed out after Mass and made me upset. What’s the point? There were only a few people there, supposedly the most devout and dedicated to our Lord. I left feeling angry at this woman’s attitude. I feel like I wasted my time.
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You do not need to go to daily Mass. There are people that are just as devout that only attend the Holy Days and Sunday or Saturday evening Mass. Maybe you should get involved in some fraternal organizations such as the Knights of Columbus. If you have been overdoing it, sit back and take a break. I don’t mean stop going to Church but I do mean maybe schedule one day per month in the Eucharistic Adoration chapel instead of going to daily Mass. Sit there and contemplate the Passion of Jesus. He will tell you where He wants you to be, and that’s in His Catholic Church. “The gates of Hell shall not prevail”.
 
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Thal59:
You have just sat in judgement of the entire Catholic church including over one and a quarter billion people! You do not like the results and you do not feel Catholics are holy enough. Your problem in internal, not the church.

Look at it this way. The same Roman Catholic Church that has a handful of pedophile priests is also the same church that produces people like St. Faustina, Maximillian Kolbe, John Paul II, Mother Theresa, etc.

Its not a question of the Catholic church or the Catholic faith… its a question of what one does with it.

Thal59
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I was planning on just making the points about what is important and what isn’t and stearing clear of trying to argue in favor of the Church, but I think this is just too good a time to bring up this point:

I think it was Scott Hahn who said that when you look at what the Catholic Church teaches compared to all the Christian denominations, you realize that the Catholic Church either is telling the truth or is a purely evil work of Satan; there is no in between. He is absolutely right. Look at some of the things we believe. Look at what everyone else believes and says about these things. We are either right or we truly are a completely evil abomination.

Now look at someone like Mother Teresa. Her entire life was formed by the Catholic Church. She based all she did and believed off of what the Catholic Church taught her. Does she seem like a person who was taught by Satan? Was she a person who, following the teachings of the Catholic Church, gave her life to doing the work of evil? If you have ever seen anything on her… this woman was amazing. I can’t even explain it. It’s just unimaginable how amazing she was. If you tried as hard as you could to imagine the best person in the world and then studied her life, I guarantee that you would find she did stuff that you had never even come close to thinking of. This woman was just… there’s really not even a word for it.

Was she a person of evil? Remember: Mat 7:18 " A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."

To me, Mother Teresa is far and away one of the best proofs for the Catholic Church there is.

Now consider how many other people give their lives to religious orders and do the sorts of things Mother Teresa did. Think of the lifestyles brothers and nuns lead for Christ. Can you find this outside of the Catholic Church? Maybe a little, but if anything just barely. How could such a wrong, untrue faith bear the fruit that exists in so many religious communites, and was exemplified in Mother Teresa?
 
HO, I read all of your posts and I can understand how you feel. There are people in every parish who act as though they are holy than thou and really are not. But, I would never allow people, even priest who act like this to come between me and my faith. I love my faith very much and would never leave the ONE TRUE FAITH. Remember, we are the first Christians and I am happy to be a Catholic. Maybe you should try to set an example of what a Catholic should be. It is not necessary to make a list of pros and cons. We have a faith that was given to us by Jesus Christ. As far as I am concern that outways any list of cons.
 
Semper Fi:
You do not need to go to daily Mass. There are people that are just as devout that only attend the Holy Days and Sunday or Saturday evening Mass. Maybe you should get involved in some fraternal organizations such as the Knights of Columbus. If you have been overdoing it, sit back and take a break. I don’t mean stop going to Church but I do mean maybe schedule one day per month in the Eucharistic Adoration chapel instead of going to daily Mass. Sit there and contemplate the Passion of Jesus. He will tell you where He wants you to be, and that’s in His Catholic Church. “The gates of Hell shall not prevail”.
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Also, remember that some people go to daily Mass because they are so… uncommitted to our Lord that they try to “make up for it” by going to daily Mass. Some of the people at daily Masses are those who are almost trying to work their way into Heaven because they don’t want to make the self sacrifice that is necessary and really give up their sins or whatnot. THis I’d say would be rare, but definitely possible
 
Maureen Fiore:
HO, I read all of your posts and I can understand how you feel. There are people in every parish who act as though they are holy than thou and really are not. But, I would never allow people, even priest who act like this to come between me and my faith. I love my faith very much and would never leave the ONE TRUE FAITH. Remember, we are the first Christians and I am happy to be a Catholic. Maybe you should try to set an example of what a Catholic should be. It is not necessary to make a list of pros and cons. We have a faith that was given to us by Jesus Christ. As far as I am concern that outways any list of cons.
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Thank you Maureen. I appreciate your post. I do get a lot from daily Mass. It’s one of the strong points of our Church. I can’t imagine not having acess to it.
 
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HumbleObedience:
Another con for me is how the Catechism treats our relationship with God as sort of a vending machine. If you do this, this, and this, then you get to Heaven. Now, if you commit a Mortal sin, and know it, then you go to Hell, unless you go to confession. If you are ignorent of it being a sin, then you are given a pass. You have to attend compulsery weekly Mass, otherwise you don’t pass Go and you don’t get $200. If you miss Mass, and meet the 3 criteria, then you go to Hell. Yet, if you murder someone, but go to confession before dying, then you go to Heaven, although you might spend more time in Purgatory.
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Humble,

I think you are misunderstanding a lot. The Catechism does not treat our relationship with God as a vending machine. There are consequences to our actions, and if we truely love Him, there are things that we must not do. Sometimes we mess up and forget about God and sin, instead of being damned to Hell, we have a chance to make up for our sins by repenting. We show our love for God this way. As Christ said if you love Him, you will keep his commandments. If you are not reading the footnotes and looking up the references in the footnotes you might misunderstand a lot. The Catechism puts things into perspective that there are things in that you have a choice to do or not to do and some of them can put your soul into grave danger. This is even clear in the Scriptures. The Catechism explains the Scriptures. The very things you accuse the Catechism of, can be found in the Scriptures.

For confession to be effective we must really be sorry for our sins and intend not to commit them again. Confession is not a ticket to sin, confession is a way to get into Gods grace when we are truely sorry for our sins.
Another con of the Church is that the power structure lends itself to abuse, right down to the Church secretary and head of the Liturgical committee. There’s a lot of social climbing that goes on in the organization of the Church I’ve noticed, and once someone gets into a position of authority it seems to go to their heads. They often know just who they need to brownnose to and who they can walk all over behind closed doors. I’ve noticed this attitude permeating my Catholic religion, with no checks and balances.
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You are misunderstanding much about the structure of the Church. The Structure of the Church was created by Christ when He made Peter the first Pope. There will always be people in possitions of authority that lose sight and make mistakes, but the Church is much bigger than what your perceive. You are only going to see mostly the mistakes in the news. Most of the people in authority of the Church are good God loving and fearing men.

There is a check and balence and it is God. God built our Church, you are complaining about what God wants. God guides the Church (St. John 14).

The best thing that you can do for the people who you think abuse power in the Church is pray for them.

There is nothing wrong with the Catholic religion. You cannot blame the religion when people do not follow it.

A few quotes from St. Josemaria Escriva, from the Way
www.EscrivaWorks.org
445
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Gossip is a disease that infects and poisons the apostolate. It goes against charity, means a waste of energy, takes away peace and destroys one’s union with God.

447 After seeing how many people waste their lives, their whole lives (tongues wagging, wagging, wagging, and all the inevitable consequences), silence seems preferable to me, and more necessary than ever.
And I well understand, Lord, why we have to give an account of all our idle words.

449 Call it by its name: grumbling, gossiping, back-biting, mischief making, tale-bearing, scandal-mongering, intrigue…, slander…, treachery?
Self-appointed critics sitting in judgment easily end up as ‘gossiping old maids’!

451 Let us be slow to judge. — Each one sees things from his own point of view, as his mind, with all its limitations, tells him, and through eyes that are often dimmed and clouded by passion.
Moreover, as happens with those modernist painters, the outlook of certain people is so unhealthily subjective that they dash off a few random strokes and assure us that they represent our portrait, our conduct.

Of what little worth are the judgments of men! Don’t judge without sifting your judgment in prayer.
 
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Della:
All right, but how about:
7) Founded by Christ himself
8) Fullness of truth resides within it
9) Salvation assured to those faithfully practicing the Faith
10) Promised by Christ to:
a) be led into all truth by the Holy Spirit
b) withstand the gates of hell itself.

In what way? Don’t kid yourself. Every pastor in every corner Evangelical church behaves as if he were the Vicar of Christ, even though he has been given no such authority by Christ.

And you didn’t expect a world wide organization made up of men not to have politics? And you don’t expect to find politics in any other denomination? Once again, don’t kid yourself. The difference is, the Church is BOTH human and divine because it is the Body of Christ, therefore, no matter what happens it cannot stray in matters of faith and morals. What other Christian body can claim that with a straight face?

If it’s too controlling why are dissenters not put on the rack? The Church has always functioned by the honor system, and assumes good will unless it can be proven otherwise. So, when dissenters take advantage of that kind of openness who do you think is controlling whom, or rather attempting to/thinking they are?

It’s always been dysfunctional because it is made up of flawed human beings. And you think Protestant ministers have it all together and are all angels of light?

And who is to blame for that? Those who long desired to gut the Church’s teachings to go along with the world in the “spirit of Vatican II.” Hey, it isn’t the first time it’s been tried (remember the Arian heresy that nearly swamped the Church?) and, if Jesus delays coming soon, it won’t be the last. Besides, do you see unity in the Protestant world? What, with a new denomination or sect being for every day?

What promises of Christ unfulfilled? And who in the Protestant world has fulfilled them, do you think? None that I know of and I was involved in several of them of different types for the first 35 years of my life. It was only in the Church that I saw any fulfillment of Christ’s promises, instead of man-made philosophies posing as fulfilled promises.

Stay for love of Jesus and his truth. Go if you want to believe that the Church blew it, God alone knows when in history. Every Protestant denomination thinks it was when they started–big surprise!
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did HumbleO say there would be converting to a protestant church? or was that just an assumption. from all that you attacked protestant churches. HO could convert to muslim or judisim…so seems like an oppurtunity to just attack protestant churches. with opinions i might add.
 
HumbleObedience said:
4) Body and Blood of our Lord
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If you really meant this as a pro, this alone would be enough to make you stay. I do not like the way some things are done either, but it’s worth dealing with it all to have the Eucharist.
 
HumbleObedience said:
Another lady did something vicous and vengeful to me the other day. She is a pillar of our Church. I don’t understand it.

Why hasn’t Christ fulfilled all his promises? All the promises in the Bible are still on hold. How much longer have we to wait? I think that either Christ must already be here in some other form, or it’s all a myth.
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I do not know what you are ranting about HO but I guess you want to bash something to discredit the Church, however, that won’t work because the Church is Divine. People are humans and can always make mistakes. You are asking for answers that are already said in the Scriptures loud and clear and if you understand, the Truth can set you free. Faith in the Word of Christ and the Love He made to save you are already an ultimate consolation for all. The promises are already fulfilled but those with little faith may face darkness still because the knowledge they posses could lead them to the wrong path which seemed to be where you are in this state of mind.
 
HumbleObedience said:
I really don’t think it matters at all if you go to Mass anymore.
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It does matter. You wouldn’t deprive your body food so it can live in this life. You deny your soul the food of the heaven, your soul will eventually die in sin. Do you not know that what you received at the Mass is the same Jesus Christ, who walk among men 2,000 yrs ago?

The Eucharist my friend, is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. When we received Holy Communion, we are given grace. Each grace differ, we can decide to respond to this grace by cooperating to it. We either obey the commandment out of love, or completely disregard God’s commandment and sin.

Catholics like you need the Eucharist. If you don’t, you will not have the strength to combat temptation and you could fall into sin. God forbid, you commit a mortal sin. If you should, you should confess as soon as possible.

The Mass does matter, if you don’t think it matters, you will derive your soul, Jesus Christ, hidden in bread and wine.
 
Mannyfit 75:
I have read a lot of defensive posts on this forum, mostly dealing with the issue of “You don’t know the truth about the Catholic faith”. I read what you had to say to Humble Obedience about the Eucharist: I have no problem believing that it is the soul and divinity of Christ, because those are intangibles and, as such, are impossible to prove. But I’m wondering if you can tell me specifically what occurs during the Consecration which turns the host and wine into the Body and Blood. It’s my understanding that this is one of the differences between Catholicism and Episcopalianism - that Episcopalians believe the host and wine represent the Body and Blood, but that the Catholics believe an actual transformation occurs, literally. If this is what you believe, can you tell me why the sacramental wine still tastes like wine and the host still tastes like unleavened bread? The human body is flesh, muscle, bone, sinew - nothing like bread. Honestly, I’m not trying to be coy or disrespectful - I’d just like to hear what you or any other posters have to say about this.

Blessings,

marietta
 
marietta said:
Mannyfit 75:
I have read a lot of defensive posts on this forum, mostly dealing with the issue of “You don’t know the truth about the Catholic faith”. I read what you had to say to Humble Obedience about the Eucharist: I have no problem believing that it is the soul and divinity of Christ, because those are intangibles and, as such, are impossible to prove. But I’m wondering if you can tell me specifically what occurs during the Consecration which turns the host and wine into the Body and Blood. It’s my understanding that this is one of the differences between Catholicism and Episcopalianism - that Episcopalians believe the host and wine represent the Body and Blood, but that the Catholics believe an actual transformation occurs, literally. If this is what you believe, can you tell me why the sacramental wine still tastes like wine and the host still tastes like unleavened bread? The human body is flesh, muscle, bone, sinew - nothing like bread. Honestly, I’m not trying to be coy or disrespectful - I’d just like to hear what you or any other posters have to say about this.

Blessings,

marietta
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Christ said:

“This is my body,”

and,

“This is my blood.”

Then He said, “Do this in memory of me.”

These were His instructions, and as He is God, we believe and obey Him.

It’s a matter of faith in something that we can’t fully understand, which is understandable considering we are the creaTION, not the CreaTOR.

Just the fact that He knows how many hairs are on each one of our heads simply amazes me - but I don’t doubt it for a minute! 🙂
 
HumbleObedience said:
Pros:
  1. A church in every town
  2. 2000 year history of mysticism
  3. Strong theological tradition
  4. Body and Blood of our Lord
  5. Daily Mass
  6. Many devotions
Cons:
  1. Papacy is too overblown
  2. Too much politics
  3. Too controlling
  4. Priesthood seems dysfunctional
  5. Confusion since Vatican 2
  6. Promises of Christ unfullfilled
I’ve been reconsidering my faith. These are some of the pros and cons. I might stay in the Church inspite of my doubts. Or I might leave.
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If you are expecting great things from a religion, it is no wonder that you are left feeling disappointed. The atheists are right about religion–it divides people, controls people, and it has led to countless wars and persecutions.

I was once exactly where you are now. The God who created everything from nothing is worthy of all of our attention. Do you want to know Him? Then just begin by reading the bible, especially the NT, and pray that He will make Himself and His word CLEAR to you. Pray for His grace to change you and make you a new creature in Christ. And don’t forget to gather together with one or more friends who know Jesus and want to share their faith with you. Avoid the controlling types. Get to know God, and you will never be disappointed.
 
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