"prosperity gospel"

[SpeakKindly]

Why did this start spreading?

It’s basically the belief that tithing can lead to God blessing us by giving us material things (money for example).

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Why did this start spreading?

it’s a good marketing message and makes people happy. Compare it to one of the doctrines that makes people unhappy (like the hell fire messages) and you might see why happier messages tend to resonate with people more. The prosperity gospel also gives disadvantaged people hope and a possible way out.

 

[Amandil]

it’s a good marketing message and makes people happy. Compare it to one of the doctrines that makes people unhappy (like the hell fire messages) and you might see why happier messages tend to resonate with people more. The prosperity gospel also gives disadvantaged people hope and a possible way out.

The problem is that God doesn’t give people whatever material goods they want, God gives according to His providence.

True blessedness does not reside in material goods, and those goods may in fact put someone’s soul at risk.

 

[RosslynV]

Joel Olsteen preaches this type of gospel. Many are misled in following him!

 

[SecretCatholic]

Why did this start spreading?

Because its comfortable for those being evangelized and its profitable for those evangelizing.

 

[WKW_69]

It is for upper middle class and rich people to feel good about themselves. As one prosperity preacher put it (paraphrase) You are the ones that God has chosen to bless and when you give to God wealth will fall upon you from the Angels of heaven. (I saw it on TBN many years ago.)

 

[Nihilist]

It’s disgusting paganism, and entirely contrary in every respect to the Gospel.

In fact, it’s a kind of Satanism, because it makes the Ruler of this World their ‘god’, and preaches the exact opposite to the Beatitudes.

 

[LoganBice]

It’s just a other example of the illusions people build up in their minds. People don’t like to accept the realities of things because they are scary. I’m not saying God is scary I’m saying the thought of going to hell because you don’t follow Christ can be scary. It’s like people who tune out politics or world events and live in their fantasy world that’s everything is fine because the corruption and evil around us disturbed their “peace of mind” and happiness. People excel at putting their self in a state of denial regardless of what is truth when it seems scary or difficult.

Most if this can be avoided if you just trust God, pursue his commands and pray more worry less

 

[fhansen]

Why did this start spreading?

It’s basically the belief that tithing can lead to God blessing us by giving us material things (money for example).

It spread because fallen man is already naturally covetous. If we can get God to back us up in it, even better yet!

 

[ThinkingSapien]

The problem is that God doesn’t give people whatever material goods they want, God gives according to His providence.

I can’t speak on Yahweh’s behaviour or the effectiveness on intercessory petitions for wealth or material goods. Some denominations of Christianity promote the message that one can have his/her heart’s desires provided those desires are not sinful and the person is faithful enough. But that’s another topic.

Messages of success and happiness seem to resonate with people. The “prosperity gospel” is one form of this message. Another popular message that I think to be similar proliferated in the form of the book and video know as “The Secret” where one would “put what they wanted out into the universe” and the universe would be thought to eventually respond by making it happen. Even late night advertisements for starting one’s own network marketing business seem to give people the hope of a better day.

It seems that when a person fails to prosper with the above it’s not always seen as the doctrine being ineffectual. Rather it’s sometimes seen as a failure of the person him/herself. “I had other people around me putting negative vibes into the universe” or “I must have been sinning too much for God to reply” are some of the rationalizations that I’ve come across.

 

[oldcelt]

How many remember the PTL Club? Jim and Tammy Faye were another example of prosperity theology. Unfortunately, it is still alive and well.

 

[Amandil]

I can’t speak on Yahweh’s behaviour or the effectiveness on intercessory petitions for wealth or material goods. Some denominations of Christianity promote the message that one can have his/her heart’s desires provided those desires are not sinful and the person is faithful enough. But that’s another topic.

Messages of success and happiness seem to resonate with people. The “prosperity gospel” is one form of this message. Another popular message that I think to be similar proliferated in the form of the book and video know as “The Secret” where one would “put what they wanted out into the universe” and the universe would be thought to eventually respond by making it happen. Even late night advertisements for starting one’s own network marketing business seem to give people the hope of a better day.

This is what happens when certain protestant pastors introduce capitalism and consumerism into Christianity. Christianity is now something they “sell” because it is “useful” instead of something proclaimed because it is true.

I quake for their souls and can’t help but wonder if at the judgment God says to them, “I hope that you had fun making a lot of money off of me.”

It seems that when a person fails to prosper with the above it’s not always seen as the doctrine being ineffectual. Rather it’s sometimes seen as a failure of the person him/herself. “I had other people around me putting negative vibes into the universe” or “I must have been sinning too much for God to reply” are some of the rationalizations that I’ve come across.

Mostly it’s “you must have not had enough faith when you prayed.” That’s usually the invective used in evangelical circles.

It’s a rather dangerous and abhorrent thing to say because I have seen too many people led into despair because they believed that God did not love them because of such a lack of “faith.”

 

[mikekle]

Why did this start spreading?

It’s basically the belief that tithing can lead to God blessing us by giving us material things (money for example).

Ive noticed this recently too…cant believe how bold some of these guys on tv are in asking for money!!

But I think first, we need to find out if this does indeed work, or if is just a scam, should be fairly easy to do, I mean, just ask people that truly subscribe to this, and see if they are truly gaining more by giving more…if that does turn out to be true, then Im not sure how it should be approached. Id say its probably a scam, but it MAY be more than that.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

But I think first, we need to find out if this does indeed work, or if is just a scam, should be fairly easy to do, I mean, just ask people that truly subscribe to this, and see if they are truly gaining more by giving more…if that does turn out to be true, then Im not sure how it should be approached. Id say its probably a scam, but it MAY be more than that.

I’m not sure that would expose much. In some circles they are taught to show their faith by talking about the rewards they have coming, project happiness, and share their “successes” with other. People in some of these groups will talk about the good things that happened to them and it will sound as though they are quite well off. Finding out the real state of things sometimes requires additional knowledge.

A school mate of mine was showing her success by posting a picture of she and in husband in front of * their /] nice cars in front of their house. I recognized the cars and knew who the owners were. She was also less than honest about the sources of her income. She was also trying to promote a network marketing business and she never spoke of her day job; as far as many knew all her income came from the network marketing job. Many of these prosperity plans train their followers to behave in manners that hide the effectiveness (or lack there of).*

 

[mikekle]

I’m not sure that would expose much. In some circles they are taught to show their faith by talking about the rewards they have coming, project happiness, and share their “successes” with other. People in some of these groups will talk about the good things that happened to them and it will sound as though they are quite well off. Finding out the real state of things sometimes requires additional knowledge.

A school mate of mine was showing her success by posting a picture of she and in husband in front of * their /] nice cars in front of their house. I recognized the cars and knew who the owners were. She was also less than honest about the sources of her income. She was also trying to promote a network marketing business and she never spoke of her day job; as far as many knew all her income came from the network marketing job. Many of these prosperity plans train their followers to behave in manners that hide the effectiveness (or lack there of).*Well, obviously a ‘test’ could be set up with strict guidelines, to really tell if prosperity gospel does indeed work or not. You would not just rely on someone being honest, they would have to prove where all the income came from.

 

[Oreoracle]

Well, obviously a ‘test’ could be set up with strict guidelines, to really tell if prosperity gospel does indeed work or not. You would not just rely on someone being honest, they would have to prove where all the income came from.

Even that would be difficult because, for all we know, people who buy into the prosperity gospel may have more motivation to work harder than the average person.

To truly eliminate all confounding variables, you would have to make the control group have the same occupation, same socioeconomic class, same gender, same race, same educational background, same marital status, same number of children, etc. You would have to monitor them constantly to make sure they don’t accept charity from anyone, or do chores to get undocumented cash, etc.

After you’ve done that, where could the additional money possibly come from? Inheriting money from a deceased relative? A millionaire randomly leaving you a huge tip? Winning a lottery? There would have to be some sort of windfall that could easily be attributed to chance.

So the real question is how people can believe that God would just conjure money into someone’s bank account (thereby causing inflation, thanks a lot God). That’s basically what would have to happen to prove the prosperity gospel.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

To truly eliminate all confounding variables, you would have to make the control group have the same occupation, same socioeconomic class, same gender, same race, same educational background, same marital status, same number of children, etc.

Even then I’m not sure how much that would convince some one that follows the prosperity gospels. Remember the Mayo clinic’s test on intercessory prayer? When they didn’t find any significant improvement on those that were prayed for vs. those that were not some argued that God doesn’t submit to test and that the results of the prayer were changed because it was being tested.

 

[Oreoracle]

Even then I’m not sure how much that would convince some one that follows the prosperity gospels. Remember the Mayo clinic’s test on intercessory prayer? When they didn’t find any significant improvement on those that were prayed for vs. those that were not some argued that God doesn’t submit to test and that the results of the prayer were changed because it was being tested.

I see what you mean. I’m discussing something similar on the thread about Ouija boards. Paranormal enthusiasts are adept at finding creative ways to make their “theories” unfalsifiable.

 

[mikekle]

I see what you mean. I’m discussing something similar on the thread about Ouija boards. Paranormal enthusiasts are adept at finding creative ways to make their “theories” unfalsifiable.

LOL…Or this may mean, we have alot of doubting thomas’s…in that wont believe unless something comes right up and bites them on the nose…and even then they would question if it was truly real or not.

IMO, people that are constantly trying to disprove every single paranormal, supernatural event, have clear agenda of their own, I dont think people like this would believe in the supernatural even if a ghost appeared right in front of them, they would try to find some explanation for it using modern science, etc. LOL

These people dont believe ANYTHING unless they can see it, touch it, etc.

 

[Oreoracle]

IMO, people that are constantly trying to disprove every single paranormal, supernatural event, have clear agenda of their own

Hey look, ThinkingSapien, I found one!