Protecting your H.S., College children from scientific gibberish

[Linusthe2nd]

It is no secret that many young students ( and the innocent in the general public ) are loosing their faith because of indoctrination by intellectual " superiors " at High School, College, or University. Your child’s faith is being destroyed by the Pied Pipers of a pseudo science by which they try to convince your child God does not exist and all religion is worse than foolishness.

If you doubt my word just start reading almost any thread in the Philosophy forum and you will see the kind of nonsense that is leading your child and perhaps yourself astray.

How do you protect your child, how do you protect yourself against this aggresive lie ?

I would suggest you take a look at the Magis Center of Reason and Faith and see some of the resources that can help. magisreasonfaith.org/free_dvd.html

While it is true that this pseudo scinece/philosophy is pure nonsense, it cannot be ignored because the practioners are extremely clever. They deserve to be hooted out of town. And in a sane, rational society they would be. But today we no longer live in a sane, rational society. So prepare yourself. It is not necessary that you argue with these people because they are the most expert Sophists that ever existed. But it is necessary to understand the foolishness upon which they stand. That way you and your children can just ignore them and quitely lead a life of reason and faith.

Linus2nd

 

[Archangelic]

Speaking as a current college student, I can honestly say that when your kid is in college, or even in high school, there is little you can actively do to “protect” them. Any overt attempts to do so will be met with resistance.

I think the best thing you can do is to make sure they are capable of defending their faith before they go off. Not only in things such as theology and Church teaching, but also in scientific fields. Science, when it is conducted fairly and without bias, can be viewed as truth, and truth is from God. It should not be feared. Train your kid to have a rational and logical mind that can discern truth from garbage. Also encourage them to have an active and frequent prayer life.

 

[Elizium23]

There are sadly too many scientists and others who worship Science as an idol, rejecting faith in God in the process. It is a shame that we must be wary of the militant atheism inherent in the Science of today. Science has a long and storied history of being supported and encouraged by the Church. Look at the great discoveries made by Catholics, even by priests and monks! The Church is not afraid of Science and knowledge. But we must be on guard about putting all our faith into Science and abandoning God. When we place Science above God, we insult the Creator and reject His love for us.

 

[grannymh]

Speaking as a current college student, I can honestly say that when your kid is in college, or even in high school, there is little you can actively do to “protect” them. Any overt attempts to do so will be met with resistance.

I think the best thing you can do is to make sure they are capable of defending their faith before they go off. Not only in things such as theology and Church teaching, but also in scientific fields. Science, when it is conducted fairly and without bias, can be viewed as truth, and truth is from God. It should not be feared. Train your kid to have a rational and logical mind that can discern truth from garbage. Also encourage them to have an active and frequent prayer life.

You have some good points. Thank you.

I emphasized the part in bold because that is probably the most popular misconception about truth on this planet.

The correct approach to “truth” is that science must be conducted properly AND Catholic doctrines must be properly understood.

Students have to understand the real Catholic teachings and not watered down speculations such as found in those “faith/science” proposals.

 

[Archangelic]

I emphasized the part in bold because that is probably the most popular misconception about truth on this planet.

The correct approach to “truth” is that science must be conducted properly AND Catholic doctrines must be properly understood.

Students have to understand the real Catholic teachings and not watered down speculations such as found in those “faith/science” proposals.

Perhaps I phrased that lazily. That it agrees with Catholic doctrine is a given. Can you give me any scientific theory that has been investigated fairly and without bias that conflicts with our faith?

 

[Razanir]

1. It’s kinda illegal to teach religion at public schools. That whole separation of church and state thing
2. Real science is not bad. It only becomes evil when it oversteps its bounds, like trying to prove a negative. It’s actually horrible logic for them to try to disprove God. You can’t prove a negative
3. I’ve never gotten that sort of feeling from my teachers or professors. I actually got a St. Ignatius medal from my English professor at a public university
4. You do realize many scientific discoveries/advances/theories were made not just by theists but by Catholics. The Big Bang, genetics, penicillin, the heliocentric model of the universe…
5. Catholic doctrine is Creationism (God created everything) NOT Young-Earth Creationism (Genesis 1 is completely literal and it only took a week). Theistic evolution is entirely compatible with Catholic doctrine

 

[Monte_RCMS]

There are reliable scientific publications … mostly newsletters … that you can subscribe to and ask your children to read them.

Bribe them, if necessary, to read them and discuss them.

www.oism.org for “Access To Energy”

www.energyadvocate.com for “The Energy Advocate”

There are others as well.

Get the hard copy / snail mail versions because people are so flooded with email that they have no time to read and think anymore.

Here is an email-only science newsletter:

sepp.org/ for TWTW … That Was The Week That Was.

 

[jonathan_hili]

Having taken Philosophy and Sociology classes at university, I’ve found that it’s a mixed bag really. Some teachers are very forthright about their beliefs and will try to push them overtly or subtly, or will try to be more even-handed; others, don’t even present their beliefs but just various viewpoints. I think there is a lot of merit in a university system that can “let one hundred school of thoughts contend”, giving students opportunities to explore. Honestly, if it wasn’t for my university classes, I probably would never have read some of the great thinkers in the Western tradition. So, I take what you’re saying, but there are benefits to it too.

 

[grannymh]

Perhaps I phrased that lazily. That it agrees with Catholic doctrine is a given. Can you give me any scientific theory that has been investigated fairly and without bias that conflicts with our faith?

Yes. Polygenism (population genetics) as applied to human origin.

With respect to this sticky at the top of this forum Sticky: Temporary Ban on Evolution/Atheism Threads

Usually investigation in any natural science research has been completed fairly and without bias. Otherwise, the top journals would not publish it. What will help non-scientific students is a basic understanding of the Scientific (inductive) Method, i.e., what it can and cannot do. For example, given that evidence regarding human origin can validly include assumptions and estimates, an universal cannot be proved with objective certainty. A personal interpretation of a research conclusion can say that “something” is most likely improbable, but it cannot say that “something” is impossible. Check out the Black Swan in Australia.

 

[garn9173]

When your child leaves for college, encourage them to look for and get involved with the Catholic Student Center. The Bishop of my Diocese strongly encourages strong and active Catholic Student Center’s on college campus’ across the Diocese.

stcatherinedrake.org/index.cfm?load=page&page=2

In 2008, Bishop Richard E. Pates created the diocesan office of Campus Ministry reaching out to an estimated 10,000 college students on 12 campuses within the Diocese of Des Moines through active Catholic Campus Ministry. Hence, St. Catherine of Siena became the headquarters of Des Moines Diocese Office of Campus Ministry. St Kate’s provides direction and relevant services to the campus ministry of these other colleges and universities.

 

[grannymh]

1. It’s kinda illegal to teach religion at public schools. That whole separation of church and state thing
2. Real science is not bad. It only becomes evil when it oversteps its bounds, like trying to prove a negative. It’s actually horrible logic for them to try to disprove God. You can’t prove a negative
3. I’ve never gotten that sort of feeling from my teachers or professors. I actually got a St. Ignatius medal from my English professor at a public university
4. You do realize many scientific discoveries/advances/theories were made not just by theists but by Catholics. The Big Bang, genetics, penicillin, the heliocentric model of the universe…
5. Catholic doctrine is Creationism (God created everything) NOT Young-Earth Creationism (Genesis 1 is completely literal and it only took a week). Theistic evolution is entirely compatible with Catholic doctrine

May I gently point out that in this century, one needs to realize that not all theistic theories are compatible with foundational Catholic doctrines.

 

[revert_jen]

Science, when it is conducted fairly and without bias, can be viewed as truth, and truth is from God. It should not be feared. Train your kid to have a rational and logical mind that can discern truth from garbage. Also encourage them to have an active and frequent prayer life.

This is very true. The important thing is the “fairly and without bias” part. I think the best thing parents can do is, as you say, to train their children to be able to tell the difference between science conducted properly and “science” conducted to prove a point.

Basically, if a scientist is trying to discover truth (and is relatively knowledgeable and competent), there is nothing to fear. If a scientist thinks he already knows the truth and is looking for evidence to support that, run away.

And frankly, being able to “discern truth from garbage” is something that people of all ages can use in many aspects of life. A grounding in logic is never a bad thing. I wish more people had it, and that I had learned it earlier myself.

A non-scientific example: There was a company (company A) that had a TV ad saying that their primary competitor (Company B) advertised for unskilled people. Company B ran a response ad with maybe 5 people who were all offended because they were extremely skilled, and how mean it was for Company A to suggest they weren’t. But that was stupid, because Company A had never suggested that all of their employees were unskilled, just that some were. It purported to be responsive to Company A’s ad, but it wasn’t really. I mean, if someone says “Some X are Y” it is not responsive to say, “Some X are not Y.” It’s entirely possible for both statements to be true. It only refutes the first point if you can say “No X are Y,” which they didn’t. But I wonder how many people worked that out. You have to think some people didn’t, or why would Company B bother to run the ad?

And finally, it would be good for parents to encourage their children to have an active prayer life completely apart from the question of scientific bias.

–Jen

 

[Razanir]

May I gently point out that in this century, one needs to realize that not all theistic theories are compatible with foundational Catholic doctrines.

Would you care to elaborate? The only “theistic theory” I’m familiar with is theistic evolution which actually is compatible.

In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP961022.HTM

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Your child’s faith is being destroyed by the Pied Pipers of a pseudo science by which they try to convince your child God does not exist and all religion is worse than foolishness.

I’ve heard of this but have never seen it myself. I’m wondering if that tendency varies by school and by major. The only time religion ever came up in the class at my school was when it was related to class materials (ex: a course in World Religion or History). Outside of class there were various religious organizations from off campus that would come to recruit people. But that was about it.

Are you saying that professors and teacher’s are explicitly stating to students that there exists no gods/God?

 

[aux1]

Would you care to elaborate? The only “theistic theory” I’m familiar with is theistic evolution which actually is compatible.

There is a problem regarding doctrine of the Original Sin. This is what Humani Generis says:

1. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is in no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[12]

The problem is this: the Church teaches that all people are tainted with original sin, because all people are descended from Adam & Eve, who were the first humans. However, population genetics tells us that there were never only 2 humans (or proto-humans) – the minimum population size is in the thousands.

So, say that Adam lived among 1000 other (proto-)humans. It follows, that you could find people living after Adam whose lineage does not trace back to Adam, only to his contemporaries. But if so, then these people would not be tainted with original sin, as it is (supposedly) a hereditiary disorder. On the other hand, there is no distinguishable group of not-fallen humans: all humans are imperfect. So the doctrine of the original sin, as traditionally understood, collapses.

Note though, that the encyclical doesn’t say that it’s impossible to reconcile polygenism and original sin – only that it is not apparent how these could be reconciled. There is some fascinating theological work being done in the area. One of the more radical approaches is that original sin is not a genetic disease, but rather an idea of disobeying God, which spread among the early humans once someone figured it out for the first time…

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I’ve heard of this but have never seen it myself. I’m wondering if that tendency varies by school and by major. The only time religion ever came up in the class at my school was when it was related to class materials (ex: a course in World Religion or History). Outside of class there were various religious organizations from off campus that would come to recruit people. But that was about it.

Are you saying that professors and teacher’s are explicitly stating to students that there exists no gods/God?

It is a wide spread phenonena and is pretty universal in secular colleges and universities. It can come up in almost any speciality, especially if you have an instructor or professor who has an ax to grind. I don’t know how often it extends to stating flat out that " God doesn’t exist. " Mostly it consists of ridiculing faith and the belief in God or the morality taught by Christianity. But I have heard of graduate students being put on the spot because of their religious and moral beliefs. Yes, it is a serious problem which the Catholic Church is well aware of and is trying to combat.

In secular high schools the problem if felt just by ignoring the contributions of Faith to the history of civilization and of course attempting to indoctrinate students into moral views contrary to their faith. In our high schools today :" toleration " is the password. Toleration for anything but moral and spiritual truth. Linus2nd

 

[OxygenMan]

My psychology professor in my first semester of college made a habit out of mocking the medieval Catholic Church. I don’t know if he was an atheist or not, but he really had no business behaving like that in a psychology class.

Then again, he liked to go on long-winded stories about his personal life, so maybe it was just him.

 

[Razanir]

The problem is this: the Church teaches that all people are tainted with original sin, because all people are descended from Adam & Eve, who were the first humans. However, population genetics tells us that there were never only 2 humans (or proto-humans) – the minimum population size is in the thousands.

The counterargument here is that evolution does not imply polygenism

Note though, that the encyclical doesn’t say that it’s impossible to reconcile polygenism and original sin – only that it is not apparent how these could be reconciled. There is some fascinating theological work being done in the area. One of the more radical approaches is that original sin is not a genetic disease, but rather an idea of disobeying God, which spread among the early humans once someone figured it out for the first time…

Hmm… This intrigues me. I’ll have to look into this work some time

 

[Linusthe2nd]

The counterargument here is that evolution does not imply polygenism

Hmm… This intrigues me. I’ll have to look into this work some time

Please stay on topic. Start a new thread if you like but something else is being discussed here. Linus2nd

 

[Linusthe2nd]

There is a problem regarding doctrine of the Original Sin. This is what Humani Generis says:

The problem is this: the Church teaches that all people are tainted with original sin, because all people are descended from Adam & Eve, who were the first humans. However, population genetics tells us that there were never only 2 humans (or proto-humans) – the minimum population size is in the thousands.

So, say that Adam lived among 1000 other (proto-)humans. It follows, that you could find people living after Adam whose lineage does not trace back to Adam, only to his contemporaries. But if so, then these people would not be tainted with original sin, as it is (supposedly) a hereditiary disorder. On the other hand, there is no distinguishable group of not-fallen humans: all humans are imperfect. So the doctrine of the original sin, as traditionally understood, collapses.

Note though, that the encyclical doesn’t say that it’s impossible to reconcile polygenism and original sin – only that it is not apparent how these could be reconciled. There is some fascinating theological work being done in the area. One of the more radical approaches is that original sin is not a genetic disease, but rather an idea of disobeying God, which spread among the early humans once someone figured it out for the first time…

Please stay on topic. We are discussing how to save our Christian youth from threats to their faith while away at school. Start a new thread if you want. Linus2nd