Protestant Anti-Sacramentalism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Matariel
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Matariel said:
Right on. There are billions of Sacraments. A life of grace is a Sacrament. Mankind is a Sacrament.

But the Church focuses mainly on the Seven Sacraments.
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We define it mainly as Augustine did;
  1. Instituted by Christ
2, Visible element
  1. Proclaims the forgiveness of sins.
There are, however, other means of grace that are not sacraments as define above; the preaching of the Word, Holy Absolution, the consolation of the brethren.
 
TriuneUnity said:
We define it mainly as Augustine did;
  1. Instituted by Christ
2, Visible element
  1. Proclaims the forgiveness of sins.
There are, however, other means of grace that are not sacraments as define above; the preaching of the Word, Holy Absolution, the consolation of the brethren.
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St. Augustine, also replied to his student, when asked how many Sacraments there are:

“There are hundreds of thousands of Sacraments.”

I learned this my priest.
 
Matariel said:
St. Augustine, also replied to his student, when asked how many Sacraments there are:

“There are hundreds of thousands of Sacraments.”

I learned this my priest.
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Strictly speaking on a biblical level, however, Christ did not institute hundreds of thousands of sacraments. Sacraments are those things that God, through the priestly office of Christ, uses to give the Gospel message to both believers and unbelievers. They are vehicles of saving grace.

Augustine himself expressly mentions the Lord’s Supper, Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage, and Holy Orders as Sacraments in this manner.
 
mario_grgic said:
Well, my point when I said that a church can’t be Catholic unless it is in communion with Roman Catholic Church was that Nestorian Churches (which you list as example of Catholic churches) are in fact heretical (excluding Chaldaean Catholics who are in communion with Rome but retain Nestorian rites). Nestorianism was condemned as a heresy by the council in Ephesus in 431. Please see

newadvent.org/cathen/10755a.htm

Also, I would like to point out that being Catholic is not something a person or institution can claim by their own. You can feel catholic, but you are not catholic unless the catholic community recognizes you as such. This is very akin to citizenship. You may move to a country and feel like you belong, but until you are granted citizenship you are not a citizen.
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Far be it for me to point out that the Catholics and “Nestorians” worked this out more than a decade ago…
vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/chrstuni/documents/rc_pc_chrstuni_doc_11111994_assyrian-church_en.html
 
mario_grgic said:
I am aware of that. They only made a first step recognizing each others position. Nestorian Churches are not in communion with Rome yet.
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Some are making moves in that direction. A large group of Christians from the Assyrian Church of the East (in California) returned to communion with Rome last spring.
 
Publisher offered a thoughtful reply. I work hard at not being defensive as I have respect for all the church. I think the worst that happened was/is fragmentation. I appreciate Constantine I trying to solve problems of diversity, but the Nestorians could have been better treated and in fact some of the issues that caused schisms 16 centuries ago seem small in light of other doctrinal divergences that have emerged since then.

All of us, Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Syriac, Protestant, and more… we need one another more than ever.
 
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