Protestant argument against Purgatory

[Church_Militant]

Over the centuries, the church has raked in a lot of money in order to free the poor souls from the fires of this place.

Really? And you know this from just what documentation? I don’t think you can support that polemic with any facts.

In earlier times, entire fortunes were handed over to the church in the hopes of ending the suffering of deceased family members.

By all means show us the documentation of this statement. What? You can’t? Then doesn’t that seem to be a false witness? I think so.

These days, not so much.

How about not at all, though I’m sure you wish it were true so as to have a basis for your biased polemic.

I find it very odd that such an important teaching isn’t addressed even once in the New Testament letters concerning church doctrine.

That’s where you’d be completely wrong. [bibledrb]1 Corinthians 3:12-15[/bibledrb]
Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

 

[Church_Militant]

The church still to this day takes a “stipend” in order to have a Masses said to free souls who suffer in Purgatory.

Gee…they get a whole $5.00 for a Mass for ANY intention. Gosh, we are certainly rakin’ in the dough now.

But wait a minute…there are several mega churches here in my area. I’m sure they got that with bottle caps and prayers.

This practice is centuries old and at one time was a tremendous source of income.

Oh yeah…more with the polemics without any documentation. What’s next? The “Well, everybody knows…” fallacy?

Modern day income from this practice is probably quite modest from a historical perspective.

Probably help a lot if you spoke to those things that you actually know facts about.

I never mentioned indulgences. The abuses of indulgences was a whole different issue and was the driving force behind the reformation.

Riiight…Tetzel was wrong the church stopped the practice and you want to talk smack about Purgatory. (and indulgences)

I think you are just trying to run down the Catholic Church with thinly sugar coated polemics that have virtually no substance and I don’t appreciate it…

• Myths about Indulgences
• How to Get an Indulgence
• Primer on Indulgences
• CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ON INDULGENCES

 

[Church_Militant]

Of course our pastor must take in revenue. But this revenue is not generated through the promotion of an unbiblical doctrine.

Gee…neither is ours…as I have shown in my posts.

Do you doubt that fortunes have been handed over to the Church in the hopes that it will reduce temoral punishment in Purgatory?

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Please show factual documentation for that statement. I don’t think you can.

Are you telling me that this was never a source of revenue for the church?

Are you misrepresenting the facts to your own anti-Catholic ends? I think so.

The devil’s oldest trick is not divide and conquer. His oldest trick is deception. It started in the garden. False doctrine will always cry the loudest for tolerance and unity. It is to be rejected and rebuked.

The Bible calls us to discernment, not compromise. We will have to agree to disagree.Which is precisely what the Catholic Church has been doing for the last 500 years or so since a bunch of men went and concocted new winds of unscriptural doctrines that have deceived millions of gullible people. I was one of them for about 35 years. No mas! My Testimony

Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

 

[kepha1]

I guess the writer of this article missed one important fact, that being that Lazarus was “comforted” (vs.25).

Yes, and Lazareth was not in heaven, which has been very carefully explained.

When you see the contrast, that the rich man was in torment and Lazarus “comforted” then one realizes that he wasn’t in a “purgatory.”

I stand by the first explanation as to why the “Bosom of Abraham” is not heaven. Jesus did not go to heaven THAT DAY. You make an erroneous unity, I make a scriptural distinction.

Now, Jesus did tell the thief that he would be in paradise and Scripture uses “paradise” as pertaining to Abraham’s Bosom AND to Heaven.

Where and how do you “scripturally” come up with this conclusion? “Paradise” never was called heaven. If Jesus meant what you claim He would have said, “…you shall be with me in Paradise and Heaven”, but He didn’t, because He said THIS DAY, which you have twisted to mean something it doesn’t. Will you further argue that Jesus went to heaven THAT DAY???

Abraham’s Bosom was the realm where the Old Testament saints resided before the Ascension. They could not enter heaven because Christ is the only way to the Father.

That is the same thing as purgatory. “Christ is the only way to the Father” is a teaching that Protestantism borrowed from Catholicism, but we don’t impose limits on Christ’s sole mediatorship based on opinions.

But as for Abraham’s Bosom being “purgatory”, even RC sources say that it is “limbus patrum” (the limbo of the fathers) and NOT purgatory.

RC sources don’t invent false dichotomies. The difference between the two is theological hair splitting. Limbo is a red herring to the discussion. You can read about “limbus patrum” here:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09256a.htm but blending theological and literal terms because you are dead wrong about commonly accepted definitions won’t do you much good.

What needs to be done is examine why the so called reformers rejected purgatory, and then it gets complicated. Substitutional atonement, forensic or imputed justification: these man made inventions rendered purgatory redundant by default, so it’s not that there is any scriptural evidence lacking to support purgatory, there is plenty of that. The real problem is more systemic.

 

[addictedkoala]

Dear addictedkoala,

I recently made some citations from the Council of Trent that has relevance for your questions. Check it out:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=6280975&postcount=36

Blessings,
Marduk

perfect, thank you very much

To the debaters, these are scripture verses I haven’t heard (at least for purgatory) and I’m always looking for more apologetics material. Good stuff.