Protestant Attacks Catholic Exorcism

  • Thread starter Thread starter NormalBeliever
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

NormalBeliever

Guest
About a month ago I found this video:youtube.com/watch?v=OehYSJzUc8Y

This video specifically attacks Catholic types of Exorcism.

I haven’t found any specific answers to this critique…

Any rebuttals to this video?Thanks
 
Is he saying that since Hollywood was inaccurate, that the Church is wrong? I’m 6 minutes in and he hasn’t made a single point yet. I doubt I can sit through 93 minutes of this…I’ll get back later.
 
Yes this man tries to explain the rite of exorcism using movies?

It can be quite devastating to have anyone other than a Catholic priest deliverer to perform exorcism because they don’t have full knowledge of exorcism and the apostolic faith and it’s risks (as this man doesn’t get) and are not given the full authority to remove demons which was given to the Apostles (the Priests) and subsequent deliverer priests who have the power of the Church/God behind them and know the risks of exorcism. This mans seems to be saying there are no risks for non-Priests when in fact there are more risks for non-Priests to perform exorcisms especially if they don’t have the knowledge and the power of God given to the Church behind them. This man seems to think he has learned more about deliverance than deliverance priests do… It seems that he doesn’t understand how much our priests have studied our faith and are experts on the matter …
 
I am no expert on such matters, but I do agree that the Hollywood movies add drama that does not belong there for the sake of sensationalism. In the Excorcist movie, for instance, this was very obvious.

It is my understanding that some exorcisms take a long time because the person needing one does not fully follow the instructions of the priest with regard to prayer, sacraments.

He pointed out that our Lord Jesus Christ performed exorcisms immediately, it did not require many exorcisms. Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, 100% God and 100% man. Some exorcists may not be fully sanctified.

In times past I have seen non-Catholic exorcists on television who shout loudly and are unnecessarily dramatic. Catholics need to be aware that receiving Jesus in the Holy Eucharist with preparation for a holy reception of His Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, can deliver the receiver without noisy fanfare.
Jesus’ holy risen presence right in us! (Of course, severe cases need help.)

I did not listen to the entire talk as I had time constraints. He seemed to be fair, but did not know everything about the subject.

I have, time and again, recommended the book “Ransomed from Darkness” by Moira Noonan. She wrote it herself, telling about her deliverance after many years being involved in occult practices. It is not written in a sensationalist style. She has a website as well.

She has a website as well.

It is also good to be aware that the deep, sincere faith of non-Catholics is honored by the Lord.

Of course we would like to see them have full recourse to all the treasures in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
 
Okay, the guy finally made his point at 9:00-10:48. His point is that, because exorcisms have failed and people have died and priests have suffered demon attacks, that the Church must be doing something wrong because those things aren’t shown in the Gospel.

First of all, it’s a logical fallacy. A failed exorcism doesn’t mean the Church is unbiblical, unless someone is claiming that God said, “failed exorcisms mean you did it wrong”.

This ties into the other blunder the guy made. Failed exorcisms ARE in the Gospel. You need look no further than Mt 17:19 where the disciples were unable to expel the demon.

His argument is refuted right there. But we can go on. Not only can a legitimate exorcism fail, but Christ goes on to tell us that some demons can only be expelled by fasting and prayer (in that same example). He goes even further to say that such required FAITH on the part of the patient (cf. Mk 9:18). Acts 19:13 shows us yet another failed attempt at exorcism by the Jews. Arguably this is because they had no authority to do such, but, as we see with the disciples who were sent out by Christ Himself, they were not always successful either.

There you go. A Biblical refutation of his “Biblical critique” against Catholic exorcism.
 
Both sides Catholic and Protestants need to stop attacking each other. We agree on so many primary issues about Christ and disagree on secondary issues that are likely insignificant.

Merry Christmas to all and celebrate Christ not dwell on differences
 
kenmiller said:
Both sides Catholic and Protestants need to stop attacking each other. We agree on so many primary issues about Christ and disagree on secondary issues that are likely insignificant.

Merry Christmas to all and celebrate Christ not dwell on differences
Click to expand...
Excellent point! No need to rebut the video. Just ignore it.
 
kenmiller said:
Both sides Catholic and Protestants need to stop attacking each other. We agree on so many primary issues about Christ and disagree on secondary issues that are likely insignificant.

Merry Christmas to all and celebrate Christ not dwell on differences
Click to expand...
Amen! 👍
 
kenmiller said:
Both sides Catholic and Protestants need to stop attacking each other. We agree on so many primary issues about Christ and disagree on secondary issues that are likely insignificant.

Merry Christmas to all and celebrate Christ not dwell on differences
Click to expand...
The Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church and the Sacraments that He instituted as a means of Grace (especially the need for Baptism and His Real Presence in the Eucharist) are not insignificant secondary issues. Indeed, the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of the Christian life which means our spiritual life. Christ wants all in His Church and to partake.

St. Joan said…About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter…

Unfortunately protestantism looked to separate Jesus from His Church. It complicated the matter.

So yes it is good that we can celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior but we also need to continue to proclaim the fullness of Truth and pray that protestants find their way Home to the One True Church.

Happy Advent!
 
johnnyc176 said:
The Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church and the Sacraments that He instituted as a means of Grace (especially the need for Baptism and His Real Presence in the Eucharist) are not insignificant secondary issues. Indeed, the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of the Christian life which means our spiritual life. Christ wants all in His Church and to partake.

St. Joan said…About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing, and we shouldn’t complicate the matter…

Unfortunately protestantism looked to separate Jesus from His Church. It complicated the matter.

So yes it is good that we can celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior but we also need to continue to proclaim the fullness of Truth and pray that protestants find their way Home to the One True Church.

Happy Advent!
Click to expand...
Merry Christmas,

Both claim the Truth , one from a traditional perspective and the other from a biblical perspective. Both sides have the good and bad on their sides-pros and cons and so forth.

In the end the energy wasted on insignificant secondary issues is not worth wasting what we agree on with primary issues in Christ!

Happy Advent!
 
kenmiller said:
Merry Christmas,

Both claim the Truth , one from a traditional perspective and the other from a biblical perspective.

Happy Advent!
Click to expand...
Not quite accurate. What was to eventually become New Testament was handed on, from generation to generation as Sacred Tradition before it was written down. The Church came before it was written down. Other Sacred Traditions, such as what books belong in the New Testament and the correct interpretation of those Scriptures continued to be passed on as Sacred Tradition ever since Jesus founded His Church. The Church’s biblical perspective is based on that which was handed down from Christ to the Apostles and from them down through the ages to this very Day.

The protestant beliefs are based on the teachings of Martin Luther, John Calvin, ,Henry XVII and other men in the 16th century.

It is very easy to discern the Church that Jesus founded.
  1. Jesus founded His Church on His 12 Apostles, His Church must be able to trace their chief pastors back to the Apostles.
  2. Since Jesus founded His Church 2000 years ago and said He would protect it until the end of time, it must have been in existence for 2000 years.
  3. It is the Church founded by Jesus Christ that compiled what are the Books of The New Testament. So, the church Authoritatively decreed which books are in the New Testament is His Church.
May you enjoy a very Happy, Holy and Blessed Advent season.
 
kenmiller said:
Both claim the Truth , one from a traditional perspective and the other from a biblical perspective.
Click to expand...
Actually the Catholic Church is both/and. Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition (and also the teaching authority given to the Catholic Church by Jesus).
In the end the energy wasted on insignificant secondary issues is not worth wasting what we agree on with primary issues in Christ!
Click to expand...
On the contrary, we should never rest in the effort to fulfill Christ’s prayerful wish that we all be one in His Church. As Pope Emeritus Benedict spoke recently we must not lose sight of the mission…

catholicworldreport.com/Blog/3466/pope_emeritus_benedict_xvi_dialogue_cannot_substitute_for_mission.aspx
“The risen Lord instructed his apostles, and through them his disciples in all ages, to take his word to the ends of the earth and to make disciples of all people,” retired Pope Benedict wrote. "‘But does that still apply?’ many inside and outside the church ask themselves today. ‘Is mission still something for today? Would it not be more appropriate to meet in dialogue among religions and serve together the cause of world peace?’ The counter-question is: ‘Can dialogue substitute for mission?’
Click to expand...
“In fact, many today think religions should respect each other and, in their dialogue, become a common force for peace. According to this way of thinking, it is usually taken for granted that different religions are variants of one and the same reality,” the retired pope wrote. "The question of truth, that which originally motivated Christians more than any other, is here put inside parentheses. It is assumed that the authentic truth about God is in the last analysis unreachable and that at best one can represent the ineffable with a variety of symbols. This renunciation of truth seems realistic and useful for peace among religions in the world.
Click to expand...
“It is nevertheless lethal to faith. In fact, faith loses its binding character and its seriousness, everything is reduced to interchangeable symbols, capable of referring only distantly to the inaccessible mystery of the divine,” he wrote.
Click to expand...
The Church that Jesus founded, the Catholic Church and the Sacraments that He instituted as a means of Grace (especially the need for Baptism and His Real Presence in the Eucharist) are not insignificant secondary issues. Indeed, the Eucharist is the Source and Summit of the Christian life which means our spiritual life. Christ wants all in His Church and to partake.

Happy Advent!
 
ahs said:
Okay, the guy finally made his point at 9:00-10:48. His point is that, because exorcisms have failed and people have died and priests have suffered demon attacks, that the Church must be doing something wrong because those things aren’t shown in the Gospel.

First of all, it’s a logical fallacy. A failed exorcism doesn’t mean the Church is unbiblical, unless someone is claiming that God said, “failed exorcisms mean you did it wrong”.

This ties into the other blunder the guy made. Failed exorcisms ARE in the Gospel. You need look no further than Mt 17:19 where the disciples were unable to expel the demon.

His argument is refuted right there. But we can go on. Not only can a legitimate exorcism fail, but Christ goes on to tell us that some demons can only be expelled by fasting and prayer (in that same example). He goes even further to say that such required FAITH on the part of the patient (cf. Mk 9:18). Acts 19:13 shows us yet another failed attempt at exorcism by the Jews. Arguably this is because they had no authority to do such, but, as we see with the disciples who were sent out by Christ Himself, they were not always successful either.

There you go. A Biblical refutation of his “Biblical critique” against Catholic exorcism.
Click to expand...
Nicely done. :clapping:

Refuting Bible Christians from scripture is soooo satisfying. 😉
 
I did not look at the video in question. I have not heard much in they way of criticism of the catholic method except for those who are totally anti catholic and say that the priests are somehow in collusion with the demons to make it look like priests have the authority to cast them out. Like a governent engineered false flag where a crisis is created to justify a specific solution.

Protestants say that Christ gave us all the authority to cast out demons in his name, not just the priest class. I believe that may be true that we all have the authority to cast out demons but it is very dangerous and the Catholic church has it down to a science thus minimizing the risk to the exorcist and increasing the chance of success. And I do think that their are protestants who may have it down as well as they seem to have much success as well, but it will be they guys who are experienced and have it down to a science in their own way.

It is like if you have a war, any one can join in the fight and the average joe does have a chance of winning a battle and/or staying alive, but wouldn’t you rather call in the Navy Seals than do it yourself!!!
 
Norm_The_Robot said:
I did not look at the video in question. I have not heard much in they way of criticism of the catholic method except for those who are totally anti catholic and say that the priests are somehow in collusion with the demons to make it look like priests have the authority to cast them out. Like a governent engineered false flag where a crisis is created to justify a specific solution.

Protestants say that Christ gave us all the authority to cast out demons in his name, not just the priest class. I believe that may be true that we all have the authority to cast out demons but it is very dangerous and the Catholic church has it down to a science thus minimizing the risk to the exorcist and increasing the chance of success. And I do think that their are protestants who may have it down as well as they seem to have much success as well, but it will be they guys who are experienced and have it down to a science in their own way.

It is like if you have a war, any one can join in the fight and the average joe does have a chance of winning a battle and/or staying alive, but wouldn’t you rather call in the Navy Seals than do it yourself!!!
Click to expand...
Merry Christmas Norm… it is a night for peace but I want to share this in friendship…

Here’s what I’ve learned and how I understand this… Ordained Priests do the ministry work of exorcism (Romans 15:16) . To understand the priesthood one must understand what it is. Jesus appointed 12 disciples who were the first ‘Priests’ of the Church and gave them the authority to drive out demons. He did not give everyone the authority but only the chosen ones Jesus specially hand picked. A specifically chosen by God, Priest, has a role of representing Christ in the world that not everyone has been given in the same manner. Priests are leaders who serve the least of these in the Church, they lead… and they take risks that the lay persons may not take. That is not to say they lay do not take responsibilities for others, but Priests are the chosen ones who were given the authority to act 'in persona Christi ’ so also are chosen to drive out demons called exorcisms. To say that we all were were given the authority to do exorcisms is not understanding the special role of the Priesthood. An analogy to that is like saying that anyone can arrest people however we know that only police are given the authority to arrest people, and we respect that authority and honor it. Similarly, the Priests are given authority to act on behalf of Christ and we respect that authority and honor it and to say anyone can do exorcisms is acting as a vigilante which can prove devastating to those who practice it because they don’t have the authority of the ‘chosen ones’ of the Church to act in this priestly role. Of course we can always pray for people who are affected by demons, but the rite of exorcism is done by the ordained, usually one who has special gifts and is especially appointed and trained in the rite of exorcism. Priests are also the ones who can consecrate the Eucharist based on this principle. They are acting ‘in Persona Christi’.

Here Jesus Appoints the Twelve (not everyone)

Mark 3:13 He went up the mountain and called to him those whom he wanted, and they came to him. 14 **And he appointed twelve, whom he also named apostles, to be with him, and to be sent out to proclaim the message, 15 and to have authority to cast out demons. **16 So he appointed the twelve: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter); 17 James son of Zebedee and John the brother of James (to whom he gave the name Boanerges, that is, Sons of Thunder); 18 and Andrew, and Philip, and Bartholomew, and Matthew, and Thomas, and James son of Alphaeus, and Thaddaeus, and Simon the Cananaean, 19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

Peace.
 
The thing is,the problem I have is not with the Catholic Church having failed exorcisms,but worse…

The exorcism from the Exorcist movie in reality ended up with the possesed person dying in the end.

And the priest himself got possesed with the same evil spirit.

Such shocks weren’t in the Bible.Even with the evil spirit attacking the people who were not Christian,at least the spirit didn’t posses them or at least the exorcism didn’t end with the person dying!

I would really like to know if there is a way to connect the Bible permitting failed exorcisms since there is no guarantee of it actually being victorious with the type of failed one we see in the case Fernandes showed first…

The failure he cites just seems…anomalous and really problematic to overcome…
 
kenmiller said:
Both sides Catholic and Protestants need to stop attacking each other. We agree on so many primary issues about Christ and disagree on secondary issues that are likely insignificant.

Merry Christmas to all and celebrate Christ not dwell on differences
Click to expand...
Here! Here! Loved what you wrote!
 
kenmiller said:
Both sides Catholic and Protestants need to stop attacking each other. We agree on so many primary issues about Christ and disagree on secondary issues that are likely insignificant.

Merry Christmas to all and celebrate Christ not dwell on differences
Click to expand...
Merry Christmas whoever you are.

I do believe you have broken a signing up rule here on Catholic Answers. Ken Miller is a respected scientist. I do have a problem with your attempt to use his name here on a Catholic website. You are not the respected scientist Ken Miller. I am outraged that you would use his name here.

Please evaluate your position and correct it yourself now.

I will seek help from the moderators if you refuse to do the right thing on your own behalf. Just know that I am watching you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top