Protestant Best Friend Mad/Upset With Me

[CopticChristian]

My husband and I were evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of our lives before converting to Catholicism.

I grew up in an awesome evangelical church. My pastor’s wife was Evelyn Christenson (author of several beloved books about prayer). . John Ortberg grew up with me in my youth group. (For those who don’t know, he is one of the most influential young evangelical pastor/leader today.) Steven Douglass was a member of our church (current President of the organization formerly known as Campus Crusade for Christ, International). Among the regular speakers at our church were Josh McDowell, Erwin Lutzer, and Leighton Ford, all renowned leaders in the evangelical world.

Our church was Catholic-friendly. We didn’t have rapidly anti-Catholic sermons from the pulpit.

However, plenty of the Sunday school teachers and Bible study leaders taught that the Catholic Church was a cult, and that the only true Christians in the Catholic Church were those who had accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.

My husband attended a large Assemblies of God church (5000 members). He was definitely taught that Catholics were not Christians.

Just last week his mom and dad ate dinner with us, and they were talking about Catholicism. My father-in-law is interested in many aspects of the Catholic faith, and so is my mother-in-law. But she said that there is no way that she could ever become Catholic, not after so many years of being taught that the Catholic Church is a work-based cult.

I can testify based on my own experience in one of the most influential evangelical churches in the U.S. that yes, many evangelicals have been taught that Catholics are not Christians. Evangelicals believe that ALL people, Catholics included, need to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior in order to be Christians and go to heaven.

No matter how much a Catholic professes to love Jesus and believe in Him, many evangelicals will NOT accept that they are “saved” unless they actually state, “I have accepted Jesus as my personal Savior.”

I think that you’re right in saying that most evangelicals these days are not interested in bringing converts into their churches, mainly because the institution of “church” is not clear in the minds of evangelicals. Many evangelicals have gotten caught up in the “anti-church” mindset (popularized in an extreme way by Harold Camping). We have quite a few friends and acquaintances in the evangelical world who no longer attend a “church,” but instead, have “church” at home with dad acting as the “pastor.”

Also, many of the megachurches are an attempt to end the organizational “church” mindset and help Christians to see themselves as part of the “universal Church of Jesus Christ,” which they see as a formless organization reaching across the centuries.

Finally, many of the non-denomination churches deny that they are “churches,” but claim to be “communities of believers.”

So to summarize the answer to your question about Bible-thumpers who want to convert you to their mega-church–yes, many of them are. They are not wild-eyed fanatics in their appearance, but many evangelicals are convinced that most Catholics are NOT Christians and will not go to heaven because they don’t have a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” and they haven’t “asked Jesus into their heart to be their personal Savior.” They are not necessarily out to bring anyone into a specific “church.” They would be happy to see Catholics remain in the Catholic Church, as long as the Catholic has “accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.”

That’s just the way things are, and Catholics would be wise to heed the advice of an ex-evangelical who grew up immersed in the evangelical mindset.

You may want to point out the Knox, Zwingli were Catholic priests, Luther was an Augistinian monk and Calvin a Catholic Lawyer that formulated the thoughts that they now follow and accept as Christian. You can tell them that they are following Catholic teachings that are not accepted by The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

These guys started a new religion, without any authority and declared this religion to have no authority but the bible, with fallible men making fallible decisions. A Catholic anomaly inconsistent with the OHCAC.

 

[CopticChristian]

It blows my mind that people automatically assume inviting someone means that you think they are not saved. This isn’t only for those who aren’t saved. I know a ton of people that went to it and no one was being pushed to go down there. There was no mention whats so ever that it was intended to convert Catholics or that Catholics are considered unsaved. I know a few Catholics who attended it and they did not have any problems with the message and they did not think that the alter call was geared towards them.

Just because the point of the crusade is to preach the Gospel and to get those who don’t know Christ to come to him does NOT mean that that equals getting Catholics to convert.

I took the time to review Greg Lauries gospel and made some notes. I want you to point out scriptures that support this notion and where I errored.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, John 10:27

Ya gotta hear it

14How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

Ya gotta believe

But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; Romans 10:8-9

You have to make a decision.

This is basically my understanding of the Scriptural support for this Protestant practice. I have heard Matt Slick say, convince them of their sin, bring them to the knowledge of their inadequacy and the righteousness of Christ, and have them accept Jesus.

youtube.com/watch?v=oQzD_czYODQ

This is a 4 part video. Here is what I have heard and what is heard at all of these services of Harvest Crusade. These services are “worship” services. So, you need to know that they are worship services. Then here is what is said.

Jesus is the way, agreed.
Heaven or Hell, you can know, do you care
Saved, a Protestant belief
Heaven secured, a Protestant belief

Romans 1 18-20, he uses this to point out that you can know the truth and I agree.

You are accountable for what you are heard

John 3:17, believe, light has come into the world, darkness, hates the light, deeds exposed. The reason people don’t want to come to Protestant thought, he calls Christ is because they don’t want their deeds exposed. Could it be I don’t want to be a Protestant.

Lets pray together, he says that this should be done with someone that has heard that they can be saved.

How do you close the deal or pull up the nets, he says just ask.

Pop the question

Would you like to accept Jesus Christ as your savior and Lord right now? If not send them home and ask them to ask God if you are real, make yourself real to me.

He talks about the Ethiopian, how can I unless someone teach, converts have to be taught.

After they have prayed assure them of their salvation, give them services, you can know you have eternal life

Phase 2

Mat 28 make disciples of all nations, baptize, preach and teach them to observe, discipleship. Take them under your wing. Stay with them and be sure that they follow up.

So I anticipate you will clarify for me the Scripture passages that support this Gospel, or your gospel as it is preached, the intention, and any other correction.

I believe that this gospel is to get a commitment to Protestant thought, called Christ, by being preached to, by making a commitment, and then being discipled in Protestant thought. I pray you correct my error.

 

[comrade1789]

I’m sorry harvest is an event that takes place in a basball stadium it is a large event and there is christian music which i love and don’t have a problem with but after the concert the paster Greg Laurie preaches to all the people there about salvation and persuades the non Protestants there to convert to Protestants and I told her why I did not want to go but she doesnt want to take no for an answer and she got up set with me.

Could you suggest to her: “I will agree to go if you would agree to come with me to a Catholic function?” Then find a local parish who is hosting an apologetics speaker, which happens all the time, and have her come to that.

 

[Slinger]

I will admit I haven’t heard many of Greg Laurie’s messages but had the blessing to hear his testimony about how he accepted Jesus. I will say that events like these are geared towards non-believers (i.e. non-Christians) and not developed to “convert” people from one church to another…the Holy Spirit is the only one that can move someone to do that.

I guess I don’t get the fear that some Catholics have about Protestants… I would have no problem with maintaining confidence in my faith/beliefs if invited to a Catholic event or listening to a Catholic music artist. But, that is obviously not the case with everyone in either faith, unfortunately.

 

[comrade1789]

I think this is a good response, but don’t tell the friend that you repeatedly ask Jesus into your heart (at each Holy Communion).

An evangelical who is well-trained will respond, “You don’t need to keep inviting Jesus in. You can trust that if you ask Him, He will come in and stay in your heart and never leave you. Let’s look at Revelation 3:20. Now would you like assurance that Jesus is really in your heart and that when you die, you will go to heaven?”

If a protestant said that to me, I would ask him/her to be more vigilant in their spiritual life. How many times everyday do we ignore Christ, do we turn our thoughts and will inwards, and how many times do we have to re-collect ourselves, stop, and invite Christ into our lives. It isn’t a one time deal, it is on-going conversion. I would ask my protestant friend who posed this response to me if they could look me in the eye and tell me they stand here blameless.

 

[odile53]

I once went to a service at a megaevangelical church with a friend who attends there. She is a nonpracticing Catholic.

The religious meeting was like a camp meeting, or, worse, like one of those televangelists from the 1980s. No liturgy whatsoever. Some scripture references, that you were supposed to look up for reference in your NKJ version Bible, and I was left with the distinct impression that the preaching was based solely on that particular preacher’s understanding of those particular references.

After two hours of frankly, quite banal preaching, a choir that was more reminiscent of a Broadway production, a couple of people “speaking in tongues” (I was pretty skeptical of that, since there was nobody to interpret what they said,) and then a healing service, she looked at me and asked me what I thought.

I tried to be polite, but I’m afraid I failed: I said, “I can’t imagine why you would think any of this would have been of any interest to me whatsoever.” She didn’t like that one bit. I later tried to explain to her that it seemed to me that, according to that particular church’s system of worship, and since everyone was encouraged to interpret scripture for themselves, it seemed very disorganized to me. Had I been a seeker of faith, I would have emerged from that more confused than ever before.

She didn’t buy it. That was several years ago, and we managed to iron out our differences in terms of religion. For what it’s worth, I’ve invited her to some lectures and presentations at my Catholic church, but she hasn’t gone.

“You go to your church, and I’ll go to mine,” pretty much covers it where we’re concerned. In other words, we’ve agreed to disagree, agreeably.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Catholic 15,

These “crusades” or “harvests” are an attempt to convert Catholics, based on ignorance of the True Faith – the Catholic Faith. Sure, they’d be happy to have others “get saved” but Catholics are the main target and give them the most glee if they succeed.

The Catholic Church selected 27 of her own writings, canonized them, and named them the New Testament when she was about 364 years old. That preacher quotes the NT, not realizing that he is using the Catholic Church’s own words.

The biggest favor you can do your Protestant friend is to teach her Bible history. Buy her a copy of Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham. It’s available from Catholic Answers or from Amazon. It’s also available on line:

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

Protestants – even preachers – rarely know that we got the Bible from the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit. And, if they do know it, they fail to see the implications of it.

The Church did not come out of the Bible; rather, the Bible came out of the Church!

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic !

 

[CopticChristian]

I will admit I haven’t heard many of Greg Laurie’s messages but had the blessing to hear his testimony about how he accepted Jesus. I will say that events like these are geared towards non-believers (i.e. non-Christians) and not developed to “convert” people from one church to another…the Holy Spirit is the only one that can move someone to do that.

I guess I don’t get the fear that some Catholics have about Protestants… I would have no problem with maintaining confidence in my faith/beliefs if invited to a Catholic event or listening to a Catholic music artist. But, that is obviously not the case with everyone in either faith, unfortunately.

Then you are unlike me and many others that have encountered people like greg that believe I and others like me are unbelievers. He says the only reason not to accept Christ in this dialgoue is because I don’t want to expose my deeds.

I don’t want to accept Christ in a Protestant service because

I don’t want to be a Protestant
I don’t belive that what Protestants believe in toto is true
I don’t want to believe that I am extrinsically justified, an acquitted criminal, I would rather believe that I am intrinsically justified, a child of God truly
I don’t want to follow up and go to Protestant Churches that do not have the Eucharist as their central focus of service

and other reasons…it is not that I don’t accept Christ as proposed

 

[CopticChristian]

Catholic 15,

These “crusades” or “harvests” are an attempt to convert Catholics, based on ignorance of the True Faith – the Catholic Faith. Sure, they’d be happy to have others “get saved” but Catholics are the main target and give them the most glee if they succeed.

The Catholic Church selected 27 of her own writings, canonized them, and named them the New Testament when she was about 364 years old. That preacher quotes the NT, not realizing that he is using the Catholic Church’s own words.

The biggest favor you can do your Protestant friend is to teach her Bible history. Buy her a copy of Where We Got the Bible by Henry Graham. It’s available from Catholic Answers or from Amazon. It’s also available on line:

catholicapologetics.info/apologetics/protestantism/wbible.htm

Protestants – even preachers – rarely know that we got the Bible from the Catholic Church, guided by the Holy Spirit. And, if they do know it, they fail to see the implications of it.

The Church did not come out of the Bible; rather, the Bible came out of the Church!

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic !

The problem is that with pastors they now and deny what is true. Look at all the books written by the guys like Giesler or Josh McDowell as they write over history to portray history as Protestant. I have taken Protestant pastors to the library to see the richness of what they do not know and they are stubborn, believing what Catholics like Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and Luther have taught them.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Quick Question for everybody, why do a serious amount Roman Catholics assume all Evangelicals are crazy Bible thumpers who just want to convert you to their mega church?
Paxvobis;8244116:

Personal experience (at least in my case).

And at least in my case what Cat describes below is my experience though I’ve had one who didn’t think I should abandon the Catholic Church:

No matter how much a Catholic professes to love Jesus and believe in Him, many evangelicals will NOT accept that they are “saved” unless they actually state, “I have accepted Jesus as my personal Savior.”

So to summarize the answer to your question about Bible-thumpers who want to convert you to their mega-church–yes, many of them are. They are not wild-eyed fanatics in their appearance, but many evangelicals are convinced that most Catholics are NOT Christians and will not go to heaven because they don’t have a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” and they haven’t “asked Jesus into their heart to be their personal Savior.” They are not necessarily out to bring anyone into a specific “church.” They would be happy to see Catholics remain in the Catholic Church, as long as the Catholic has “accepted Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior.”

That’s just the way things are, and Catholics would be wise to heed the advice of an ex-evangelical who grew up immersed in the evangelical mindset.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

The problem is that with pastors they now and deny what is true. Look at all the books written by the guys like Giesler or Josh McDowell as they write over history to portray history as Protestant. I have taken Protestant pastors to the library to see the richness of what they do not know and they are stubborn, believing what Catholics like Knox, Zwingli, Calvin and Luther have taught them.

Quoting the Protestant Ryrie Study Bible: “The first church council to list all twenty-seven books of the New Testament was the Council of Carthage in A.D. 397.”

Ryrie doesn’t mention it, but the Catholic Bishops also canonized the Old Testament at the same time they canonized the New Testament, in the same Councils. The OT writings canonized were the 46 books of the Greek Septuagint that the Church inherited from Jesus and the Apostles.

Jim Dandy

 

[Cat]

If a protestant said that to me, I would ask him/her to be more vigilant in their spiritual life. How many times everyday do we ignore Christ, do we turn our thoughts and will inwards, and how many times do we have to re-collect ourselves, stop, and invite Christ into our lives. It isn’t a one time deal, it is on-going conversion. I would ask my protestant friend who posed this response to me if they could look me in the eye and tell me they stand here blameless.

Evangelical Protestants do believe strongly in continued re-dedication of our lives to Jesus. So you will not get an argument from them on that.

Many Protestants are very vigilant in their spiritual life. Most evangelicals have a daily “quiet time” or “morning watch” or “devotional time” when they read the Bible and pray, often for at least a half-hour or more. During this time, they examine their hearts and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal any sins, hidden or otherwise. They re-dedicate themselves daily during this time to the Lord Jesus.

In addition, many Protestants re-dedicate themselves publically to Christ frequently during altar calls at church services, retreats, and conferences.

What they don’t accept is the continued need to re-receive Jesus into their lives.

They believe that this demonstrates a lack of faith in Jesus’ promises to come into our hearts if we ask. See Revelation 3:20,

They would tell you that it’s like marriage. You don’t have to get married every day to re-dedicate yourself to your spouse. You have to do other things to re-dedicate yourself; e.g., lovemaking. Or doing a chore without complaining. Or bringing flowers.

Protestants have a different understanding of the word “conversion” than Catholics, and it’s important for Catholics to keep this difference in mind when talking to evangelical Protestants. In the same way, Protestants should know about and understand the Catholic understanding of the word “conversion.”

Catholics believe that conversion is continuous throughout life, like lovemaking in a marriage. Catholics would say that the “wedding” takes place at baptism, and is confirmed at confirmation.

Protestants believe that conversion is a “one-time act,” like a wedding, with continued and constant re-dedication (lovemaking) to Christ for the rest of earthly life. Protestants believe that a person decides for themself to convert to Jesus, and that baptism is just the outward symbol of that inner commitment. Evangelical Protestants generally don’t have any kind of confirmation, although some evangelicals will make a celebration out of joining their church. But as a rule, church membership is not emphasized in evangelical Protestant Christianity; it is an option, but not a requirement in most evangelical denominations. (Although in some denominations, church membership is required to be involved in teaching ministry.)

I believe that God understands the heart and the intent of the faithful Protestant who loves Jesus, and God will honor their desire to have Him in their hearts, even though they don’t receive Him in the Eucharist. The Holy Spirit is constantly working in the hearts of Protestants to draw them back to the Catholic Church and to the altar of Holy Communion. But in the meantime, they have a union, although imperfect, with Jesus Christ. (This is what our Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches, BTW.)

 

[Marie5890]

I don’t know what to do I had perviously posted before and asked if I should attend Harvest the Mega church event and the results only supported my personal perference of not to attend because I did not feel right or comforable going to Harvest with so many Protestants. However when I told my Best Friend that did not want to go she kept insisting that I should go and she sounded upset and mad at me for not going. Am I wrong for not going with her. Comments, concerns please.

It sounds like, though she probably means well, she has an agenda by asking you to go. She invited you, you declined. Hopefully she is a real and genuine enough friend to let it go.

Authenticity and sincerely are hallmarks of friendship. Not agendas to meet some goal.

God Bless.

 

[rinnie]

I’m sorry harvest is an event that takes place in a basball stadium it is a large event and there is christian music which i love and don’t have a problem with but after the concert the paster Greg Laurie preaches to all the people there about salvation and persuades the non Protestants there to convert to Protestants and I told her why I did not want to go but she doesnt want to take no for an answer and she got up set with me.

Then I would have to wonder is she really your best friend. If she was truly your best friend she would not act this way.

Pray to your True best Friend and ask him to send you the grace to keep you strong in your faith and not let anyone discourage you in any way.

 

[Jim27290]

You know Roman Catholics can learn a lot from Evangelicalism…

 

[CopticChristian]

You know Roman Catholics can learn a lot from Evangelicalism…

This is true.

Catholics should get bikes, white shirts and ties and ride the neighborhood speaking to people.

Catholics should get in cars and take tracts to the doors with a bible.

Catholics should stand on corners with a bible asking people if they know the Lord

Catholics should tell people their world is coming to an end

Catholics could do more.

 

[Kristin234]

This is true.

Catholics should get bikes, white shirts and ties and ride the neighborhood speaking to people.

Catholics should get in cars and take tracts to the doors with a bible.

Catholics should stand on corners with a bible asking people if they know the Lord

Catholics should tell people their world is coming to an end

Catholics could do more.

I can’t tell if you are being serious or not, but I personally know people who were Hindu, Muslim, and Atheist whose first step into converting to Christianity was from people giving out tracts and asking them if they know the Lord.

 

[CopticChristian]

I can’t tell if you are being serious or not, but I personally know people who were Hindu, Muslim, and Atheist whose first step into converting to Christianity was from people giving out tracts and asking them if they know the Lord.

Originally Posted by Jim27290
You know Roman Catholics can learn a lot from Evangelicalism…

I agreed and pointed out examples. Can you think of other examples?

 

[Cat]

I agreed and pointed out examples. Can you think of other examples?

It’s a good question.

Remember, I am a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism.

I think the biggest thing that Catholics can and should learn from evangelical Protestants is to read and study more. Sorry, but I’m not including the CA forums in that, although many of the papers and blogs in this website are excellent. CAF is just fun, IMO, but I know that I spend too much time on CAF and not enough time reading good books and papers.

Certainly the Bible should be at the top of the list, as it is the Word of God. I’ve actually seen posts on this board that say that we Catholics don’t need to read the Bible because we have Eucharist, or because it is read to us at Mass and that’s enough, or…I say drop the excuses and start reading it. It’s embarrassing when a Catholics doesn’t even know where John 3:16 is in their creaseless, dusty Bible. In fact, it’s embarrassing when they don’t even own a creaseless, dusty Bible!

But Catholics should also read and study the Catechism–I admit, it’s a heavy read. It took me a long time to get through it, and I should read through it constantly. But at least I’ve read it and have it full of notes and highlights so I can find certain paragraphs that are important to me. Like I said, I should read it more.

There are quite a few classic Catholic books, e.g., The Imitation of Christ, that I think all Catholics should read. I might start a thread asking for a list of other good classics.

There are a lot of books by contemporary apologists like Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, and Jeff Cavins (these are just a few examples). These are really good! And there are also some excellent non-fiction books by other Catholic writers, about marriage, family, worldview, etc.

Finally, there are some good fiction Catholic books coming out. Sophia has a whole line of fiction that is actually very good reading (it’s called the Chisel and Cross publications, and they’re all fiction highly suitable for Catholics). Evangelical Protestants eat these kinds of books up–there are thousands and thousands of Protestant fiction books–romances, thrillers, mysteries, etc.

Evangelicals read and read and READ some more! Many of the tote bags in my closet are from evangelical conferences and seminars, given so that we can carry a huge stack of books. There are evangelical Protestant book-selling home businesses out there (although they are floundering now due to online sales of books). There are huge HUGE bookstores of Protestant books–they wouldn’t be written and sold if no one bought them and read them!

I really think that Catholics should read more good Christian books.
When we fill our minds with Catholic reading, including fiction, our minds become more Catholic and we think more like Christians instead of like non-Christians.

 

[Nicea325]

I’m sorry harvest is an event that takes place in a basball stadium it is a large event and there is christian music which i love and don’t have a problem with but after the concert the paster Greg Laurie preaches to all the people there about salvation and persuades the non Protestants there to convert to Protestants and I told her why I did not want to go but she doesnt want to take no for an answer and she got up set with me.

Turn the tables around and ask your “friend” if she would go to RCC event? Her getting mad is merely a trap to give you the guilt trip. I never force or get upset if any of my friends choose not to go to any event,religious or not it is called free-will.