Protestant Best Friend Mad/Upset With Me

[Zooey]

It blows my mind that people automatically assume inviting someone means that you think they are not saved. This isn’t only for those who aren’t saved. I know a ton of people that went to it and no one was being pushed to go down there. There was no mention whats so ever that it was intended to convert Catholics or that Catholics are considered unsaved. I know a few Catholics who attended it and they did not have any problems with the message and they did not think that the alter call was geared towards them.

Just because the point of the crusade is to preach the Gospel and to get those who don’t know Christ to come to him does NOT mean that that equals getting Catholics to convert.

I’m sorry, but you are simply wrong.
I know this, because I have had the experience of being in some of these “evangelistic” services. They are loud, banal, & totally devoted to converting everybody to their own little “subset” of Christianity.

If I invite friends to a religious event, and they don’t feel comfortable going, I don’t press them on it. I might ask what about it makes them uncomfortable, but only if they’re comfortable with such a discussion, and if not I’d just drop it. IMO, that’s just what courtesy requires.

Good for you!! That is the proper Christian attitude.

One other troubling thing I noticed about this website: They talk a lot about the “gospel”, but they do not have one single thing on their site that tells us their Statement Of Faith. :shrug:What “gospel” are they pushing?
My [not inconsiderable] experience is, that wherever & whenever there is a group who keeps pushing “the gospel, the gospel” without ever once telling us** what** “gospel” they have to offer–Those people are trying to push “another gospel” which St Paul warned us not to have any part of.

I wouldn’t go myslef, & I am a Methodist, for goodness sake!!

 

[Zooey]

It sounds like, though she probably means well, she has an agenda by asking you to go. She invited you, you declined. Hopefully she is a real and genuine enough friend to let it go.

Authenticity and sincerely are hallmarks of friendship. Not agendas to meet some goal.

God Bless.

Yes, I agree with you.

 

[Kristin234]

I’m sorry, but you are simply wrong.
I know this, because I have had the experience of being in some of these “evangelistic” services. They are loud, banal, & totally devoted to converting everybody to their own little “subset” of Christianity. Good for you!! That is the proper Christian attitude.

One other troubling thing I noticed about this website: They talk a lot about the “gospel”, but they do not have one single thing on their site that tells us their Statement Of Faith. :shrug:What “gospel” are they pushing?
My [not inconsiderable] experience is, that wherever & whenever there is a group who keeps pushing “the gospel, the gospel” without ever once telling us** what** “gospel” they have to offer–Those people are trying to push “another gospel” which St Paul warned us not to have any part of.

I wouldn’t go myslef, & I am a Methodist, for goodness sake!!

Greg Laurie is basically the ring leader, but last year there were baptist pastors, evangelical, non-denominational, etc all up there on the stage. I met so many people from all different denominations that were there.

 

[Zooey]

Greg Laurie is basically the ring leader, but last year there were baptist pastors, evangelical, non-denominational, etc all up there on the stage. I met so many people from all different denominations that were there.

But, Kristin, that only makes me wonder all the more: What is their Statement of Faith? What do they believe in?
And if it is truly Christian, why are they not proud of that, & publishing their doctrinal statement on their website??
I go to a little church in my hometown, & the first thing my pastor did, when we got a website, was to:thumbsup: link to “What We Believe”. That’s just what you do, if you are honest.
On the other hand, if all you want to do is to proselytize, then you make sure that “what you believe” is either entirely absent, or strangely remote & difficult to discover. And you backpedal a lot, to keep from having to give it out…

 

[Kristin234]

But, Kristin, that only makes me wonder all the more: What is their Statement of Faith? What do they believe in?
And if it is truly Christian, why are they not proud of that, & publishing their doctrinal statement on their website??
I go to a little church in my hometown, & the first thing my pastor did, when we got a website, was to:thumbsup: link to “What We Believe”. That’s just what you do, if you are honest.
On the other hand, if all you want to do is to proselytize, then you make sure that “what you believe” is either entirely absent, or strangely remote & difficult to discover. And you backpedal a lot, to keep from having to give it out…

That’s because Harvest Crusade is an event. Not a church. The whole goal of the event is to get the gospel out there and to have people convert to Christianity, but there is no specific group. They are just trying to spread the message. I know that usually there is a what we believe in. My mom’s pastor was a part of this event and the church’s website has a what we believe in.

 

[CopticChristian]

That’s because Harvest Crusade is an event. Not a church. The whole goal of the event is to get the gospel out there and to have people convert to Christianity, but there is no specific group. They are just trying to spread the message. I know that usually there is a what we believe in. My mom’s pastor was a part of this event and the church’s website has a what we believe in.

This I will disagree with. It is a Mega Mega Protestant worship service. That comes from experience, being told by Protestants attending, and if you go to enough Protestant services you can see that this is a worship service. In consideration that most Protestants consider a gathering as “church”. It is a church service. Altar call are the usual part of many of these functions small and large. It is an attempt to get people to become Protestant.

Once Protestant, get a bible, go to a bible believing church as long as it is Protestant. It is my understanding that Billy Graham is a revivalist and sends people from altar call back to the church they came from, including Catholics.

 

[Zooey]

This I will disagree with. It is a Mega Mega Protestant worship service. That comes from experience, being told by Protestants attending, and if you go to enough Protestant services you can see that this is a worship service. In consideration that most Protestants consider a gathering as “church”. It is a church service. Altar call are the usual part of many of these functions small and large. It is an attempt to get people to become Protestant.

:sad_yes:

Once Protestant, get a bible, go to a bible believing church as long as it is Protestant. It is my understanding that Billy Graham is a revivalist and sends people from altar call back to the church they came from, including Catholics.

Yes, this is correct.

 

[Cat]

That’s because Harvest Crusade is an event. Not a church. The whole goal of the event is to get the gospel out there and to have people convert to Christianity, but there is no specific group. They are just trying to spread the message. I know that usually there is a what we believe in. My mom’s pastor was a part of this event and the church’s website has a what we believe in.

Again, keep in mind that I grew up evangelical Protestant and spent 47 years in those churches before converting to Catholicism.

Events do not occur in and of themselves, especially events that recur.

There is always an organization or group that presents the “event,” and this organization or group usually has some kind of Statement of Faith or List of Beliefs or Mission Statement.

I did a little searching and found the Harvest Church Statement of Faith. Pastor Greg Laurie is the pastor of this “church,” and he is also the creator and presenter of the Harvest Crusades: Here is the link: harvest.org/church/about.html

Several things in this Statement are incapatible with Catholic Church teaching, mainly the statement that baptism and communion are not required for salvation. This is a serious disagreement. By being present at the Harvest Crusade, a Catholic may give the impression to other Christians that he/she is in agreement with this statement.

I would tell the OP to tell her friend that she cannot, in good conscience, attend an event (other than a funeral or wedding where the purpose is clearly to marry or bury a loved friend or relative), where the pastor teaches this.

I personally believe that the statement that “We uphold the Scriptural practices of the early church” is a ludicrous and misleading statement because (1) there were no “Scriptures” other than the Old Testament to guide the Early Church about various practices and (2) there were other books (e.g., Didache) written in the first century that documented the practices of the Early Church, and these books describe practices that the Catholic Church still follows today, but few Protestant churches practice ever.

Also, if you go to the link, you will read the following: "Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word church comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The church is not a building or a denomination. According to the Bible, the church is the body of Christ—all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation

The Bible defines church as a body. Each of us are members of that body with different functions and abilities. When one part of the body suffers, it is felt throughout. When one part of the body is not functioning, the rest of the body is impaired. Each part of the body is necessary and each part is significant."

These paragraphs are incapatible with the teachings of the Catholic Church AND with the teachings of the Bible, mainly the book of Acts, and also the Epistles of Paul to Timothy and to Titus. These books describe a very well-organized Church with a definite organizational ladder and structure. The Church is, indeed, the Body of Christ, but the Church is much more than this, according to the Bible, and according to history and tradition. But Pastor Laurie and Harvest Church choose to ignore those portions of the Bible that they don’t wish to assimilate. I accuse Pastor Laurie of practicing a non-Biblical Christianity and picking and choosing those portions of the Bible that he and his members find convenient.

 

[Cat]

One of the things about this thread that I think bears some thought is the desire of Catholics to attend events that feature contemporary Christian music (CCM).

I don’t blame them one bit, and I think this is a legitimate and honorable desire for Catholics. I like certain CCM bands and artists and will go see them if I have the opportunity.

After all, most Masses do NOT feature well-done contemporary Christian music, especially rock and other contemporary styles, right?

I personally wish that this kind of music WAS featured in Masses, but it is probably not going to happen, and if anything, we are seeing a return to the more ancient and traditional styles of music in the Mass. Time will tell whether this results in more enthusiastic attendance at Mass, or whether the attendance at Mass will drop off even more than it already has. I personally predict that attendance in the U.S. will drop alarmingly, and I’m guessing that the Church will take some steps within a few years to restore the contemporary styles of music to the OF Mass in order to try to attract Catholics back to the Mass.

But I could be wrong. Like I said, time will tell.

Anyway, I would like to point out that there are opportunities for Catholic CCM fans to hear the music that they love without having to attend a “crusade.” I would strongly suggest that Catholic CCM fans look for concerts and other venues where CCM is featured.

One of the churches in our city has an ampitheater that presents CCM and other styles of concerts all summer long. A very wealthy member gave the money to create this ampitheater and made it clear that this is not to be used for the church to proseltyze, but only to present good Christian music to the city. The organizing committee is separate from the church where the ampitheater is.

I have attended quite a few of these concerts, and there is never an attempt to proseltyze or convert people. Every once in a while, one of the groups will do an altar call, but this is not done through the church, but through the group.

I would suggest looking up the websites of any Christian group or solo artist that you like and when possible, attending their concerts when they are held at events or venues that are NOT affiliated with churches. Our city has an annual “On the Waterfront” music festival, and there are usually at least a few Christian bands that are on the roster. A lot of fairs and festivals feature a Christian stage with Christian artists.

Some Christian bands perform in school venues–my husband is a fan of a group called Silver, and he usually attends their concerts in schools here in our city. He’s not the only 50-something in the crowd, either.

And one other thought–perhaps you can approach your parish priest and ask about the possibility of the parish presenting a concert by a Catholic CCM band. Our parish does this once in a while. They use the nave as the concert hall and the Blessed Sacrament is removed to prevent any sacrilege or irreverence. But there is usually a pretty good crowd for these concerts. I wish they were done more often and on a regular schedule so that people would come to expect it.

Also, our local Catholic high school occasionally offers CCM concerts by Catholic bands.

So in summary, there is no need for Catholics to attend an evangelical Protestant crusade to hear good music. Just look around for less evangelical venues.

 

[Contarini]

I don’t know what to do I had perviously posted before and asked if I should attend Harvest the Mega church event and the results only supported my personal perference of not to attend because I did not feel right or comforable going to Harvest with so many Protestants. However when I told my Best Friend that did not want to go she kept insisting that I should go and she sounded upset and mad at me for not going. Am I wrong for not going with her. Comments, concerns please.

It’s very rude to put pressure on your friends to do stuff with you that they don’t want to do.

So no, you weren’t wrong.

I’d like to see Catholics less nervous about worshiping with Protestants, but given her reaction it really sounds as if she’s trying to “evangelize” you, and you need to make it clear that this kind of pressure is inappropriate and damages your friendship.

Edwin

 

[Izdaari]

It is my understanding that Billy Graham is a revivalist and sends people from altar call back to the church they came from, including Catholics.

I think Billy Graham sets a great example in that.

He personally is a Baptist, but he wants to make more Christians, not specifically more Baptists or even more Protestants.

 

[Zooey]

It’s very rude to put pressure on your friends to do stuff with you that they don’t want to do.

So no, you weren’t wrong.

I’d like to see Catholics less nervous about worshiping with Protestants, but given her reaction it really sounds as if she’s trying to “evangelize” you, and you need to make it clear that this kind of pressure is inappropriate and damages your friendship.

Edwin

:sad_yes:

I think Billy Graham sets a great example in that.

He personally is a Baptist, but he wants to make more Christians, not specifically more Baptists or even more Protestants.

:yup:

 

[Annie39]

One of the things about this thread that I think bears some thought is the desire of Catholics to attend events that feature contemporary Christian music (CCM).

I don’t blame them one bit, and I think this is a legitimate and honorable desire for Catholics. I like certain CCM bands and artists and will go see them if I have the opportunity.

After all, most Masses do NOT feature well-done contemporary Christian music, especially rock and other contemporary styles, right?

I personally wish that this kind of music WAS featured in Masses, but it is probably not going to happen, and if anything, we are seeing a return to the more ancient and traditional styles of music in the Mass. Time will tell whether this results in more enthusiastic attendance at Mass, or whether the attendance at Mass will drop off even more than it already has. I personally predict that attendance in the U.S. will drop alarmingly, and I’m guessing that the Church will take some steps within a few years to restore the contemporary styles of music to the OF Mass in order to try to attract Catholics back to the Mass.

But I could be wrong. Like I said, time will tell.

Anyway, I would like to point out that there are opportunities for Catholic CCM fans to hear the music that they love without having to attend a “crusade.” I would strongly suggest that Catholic CCM fans look for concerts and other venues where CCM is featured.

One of the churches in our city has an ampitheater that presents CCM and other styles of concerts all summer long. A very wealthy member gave the money to create this ampitheater and made it clear that this is not to be used for the church to proseltyze, but only to present good Christian music to the city. The organizing committee is separate from the church where the ampitheater is.

I have attended quite a few of these concerts, and there is never an attempt to proseltyze or convert people. Every once in a while, one of the groups will do an altar call, but this is not done through the church, but through the group.

I would suggest looking up the websites of any Christian group or solo artist that you like and when possible, attending their concerts when they are held at events or venues that are NOT affiliated with churches. Our city has an annual “On the Waterfront” music festival, and there are usually at least a few Christian bands that are on the roster. A lot of fairs and festivals feature a Christian stage with Christian artists.

Some Christian bands perform in school venues–my husband is a fan of a group called Silver, and he usually attends their concerts in schools here in our city. He’s not the only 50-something in the crowd, either.

And one other thought–perhaps you can approach your parish priest and ask about the possibility of the parish presenting a concert by a Catholic CCM band. Our parish does this once in a while. They use the nave as the concert hall and the Blessed Sacrament is removed to prevent any sacrilege or irreverence. But there is usually a pretty good crowd for these concerts. I wish they were done more often and on a regular schedule so that people would come to expect it.

Also, our local Catholic high school occasionally offers CCM concerts by Catholic bands.

So in summary, there is no need for Catholics to attend an evangelical Protestant crusade to hear good music. Just look around for less evangelical venues.

You think that there should be good contemporary music at Mass and that prompts me to ask if you attend Mass to be entertained or to worship God along with His Angels and His saints and receive Jesus Christ in the Eucharist?