Protestant-Catholic dialogue on Mary, Saints, Church authority, etc

[edwinG]

<Hi Lorarose again,
While we are talking intercession, I would like all the people on this thread who read this to pray for MaryG. She has gone missing whilst being involved in spiritual warfare.
May Christ grow in your hearts
walk in love
edwinG>

Do you mean physically missing? Or that you haven’t heard from her?
Yes - I will pray for her.

Hi Lorarose,
Thank you for responding. MariaG is a very regular member but just after she started a fast, she stopped posting. I am concerned for her.
Thank you for your prayers.
edwinhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[Beaver]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi Beaver. So let us pray to the Lord Jesus Christ for we know for sure that He hears our prayers. God Bless.

We also know that the body responds to what the ear hears, so it is that the heavenly host responds to what Christ hears.

A choice of being more than yourself of being adopted into the family of God.

Protestant enjoy being I don not they, but we Catholic know that we are not I’s but we’s. We are a part of the body of Christ. The body that has the ears of Christ, we pray together, not apart from each other. We are only taken up into Christ pray. I am glad that I am apart of the family of God that I hear pray request and respond to them.

Revelations Chapter 8

3 Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the alter. 4 A large quantity of incense was given to him to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden alter that stood in front of the throne; so from the angel’s hand the smoke of the incense went up in the presents of God and with it the prayers of the saints. 5 Then the angel took the censer and filled it with fire from the alter, which he then threw on to the earth; immediately there came peals of thunder and flashes of lighting, and the earth shook.

This is a beautiful picture of heaven and you should respond to it. If you need interpretation I will gladly give it.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

edwinG:

Hi Mark L
Where you have said, “saints(in heaven, I assume) can intercede for those on earth” I wonder if you would supply me with your favourite quotes.
“Isnt it reasonable to believe” This argues against the position of belief in Rev . It shows your doubt in the meaning of Rev.
May Christ grow in you
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

No, I do not think he has shown doubt in the meaning of Revelation,but it does show that you still have doubts.Death lost its sting and you are putting barriers,with the Lords faithful that Jesus lifted by His sacrifice. God Bless

 

[mlchance]

edwinG:

The two quotes from Revelation just mention prayers of saints. That could just as easily be you and me. It in no way speaks of those resting.

Nonsense. John’s vision is of the saints in Heaven standing before the Throne of the Lamb, which is abudantly clear from Revelation 5:1-8 and 8:1-5. In the first reading, the elders “before the Lamb” held “bowls filled with incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” In the second reading, an angel of the Lord offers “the prayers of the saints” on the “gold altar that was before the throne.”

edwinG:

The other quotes have nothing at all to do with the “dead” but intercessory prayer in which everyone is in agreement.

I never said they had anything to do with the saints in Heaven. Is offering intercessory prayer God’s will? Yes. Is God’s will the same in Heaven as on Earth? Yes. Do those in Heaven obey God’s will? Yes.

edwinG:

Two places in scripture against the saints praying for us.

1. When Saul called up Samuel and Samuel said" why have you disturbed me"
   and 2 Lazarus when asked by the rich man, didnt even speak to him. There was No response.

Neither is relevant. Saul’s actions were not prayer. They were necromancy, the magical practice of conjuring the dead to serve the will of the living. This is clearly forbidden. The rich man and Lazarus is also not relevant. The rich man was in Hell, not on Earth. Those in Hell are cut off from God and, by extension, from those in Heaven as well.

The challenge is find a single verse of Scripture that says those in Heaven do not intercede for those of us still on Earth. That challenge remains unanswered.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[edwinG]

Lisa4Catholics:

Not everything,was written down in the Bible,that wasw stated also in the Bible.It is sad that you feel Our Lord would be offended that we would ask a Saint to pray for us, because by his grace they became a Saint and therefore a gift from God to us,lets not ignore his gifts under the precepts of not offending the giver of gifts.God Bless

Hi Lisa4Catholics,
God gave us Jesus our saviour. Jesus said , you haven’t done this before but go directly to my father in my name. Then Jesus was killed, and the curtain was ripped apart, confirmation of Jesus’s word that we can go directly to God. Now Christ gave His life for this and you argue we should reject it and go to some saint in heaven. And you dont even know which ones are in heaven. Your actions are insulting to Him. He gave Himself for you and you turn your back and go to someone else. Tell me when the curtain was ripped, was some saint standing there between us and God.
Can you answer this question. Does God need anyone from earth to redeem us, to save us.
May Christ grow in your heart.
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[Lorarose]

The incident between Saul and Samuel is fascinating isn’t it?

First of all…this shows us that even holy men like Samuel were not allowed entry into heaven until Jesus’s sacrifice was completed.

So…Samuel was not a “heavenly soul” at that time. He was not living in the presence of God but in another place.

Also…Samuel showed amazing knowledge about earthly events even after his death didn’t he?

Saul’s sin was his conjuring of a spirit. Attempting to bypass God by contacting a spirit, a spirit who was not living in the purifying presence of God.

When a christian asks a heavenly soul to pray for them - this is not the same as holding a seance or visiting a psychic.
The prayers are presented to God and the heavenly souls act according to His Will.

Saul was not praying to God, nor was he asking anyone else to pray for him.

 

[Lorarose]

<God gave us Jesus our saviour. Jesus said , you haven’t done this before but go directly to my father in my name. Then Jesus was killed, and the curtain was ripped apart, confirmation of Jesus’s word that we can go directly to God. Now Christ gave His life for this and you argue we should reject it and go to some saint in heaven. And you dont even know which ones are in heaven. Your actions are insulting to Him. He gave Himself for you and you turn your back and go to someone else. Tell me when the curtain was ripped, was some saint standing there between us and God.
Can you answer this question. Does God need anyone from earth to redeem us, to save us.>

When did Jesus say “you haven’t done this before but go directly to my father in my name”?

Why is the ripping of the curtain confirmation that heavenly souls cannot intercede?

How do you know this is insulting to Him? Has He told you this?
Did He say in scripture He finds intercession to be insulting?

No one is claiming the saints are redeeming us or saving us.
Now you are misinterpreting the catholic position just to make it easier to argue against it.

Catholics simply believe that heavenly souls can pray and intercede as earthly souls can pray and intercede.

I have not seen you provide any evidence to the contrary.

 

[edwinG]

Lisa4Catholics:

Yes, Catholics KNOW that God alone saves them,pray means to ask,we ask for the intercession of Mary just like when you ask your freinds on earth to pray.Seek the truth,huh?Got it Your intention was set in stone before the prayer and fast. Our Lord doesn’t have an inferiority complex and when we ask the Saints to pray for us,it is also,in thanksgiving to God for giving us such Holy people as models.Try not thanking someone who gives you a present this **Christmas,**ignore it,see if the giver of the gift is happy.God Bless

Hi Lisa4Catholics,
Is this true, " We ask for the intercession of Mary" You pray to God in Jesus’s Holy name and ask Him to have Mary intercede for you.

I thought you asked Mary to intercede for you.

Your intention was set in stone. This is true Lisa, as I am desperate for the truth.

So God gave us the gift of His Son, at the cost of the Son’s blood, and you choose to use it sometimes and to use someother present (that could be in hell) at some other time. Lisa, I am not the one ignoring Christ, I fully accept this absolutely beautiful gift and use it exclusively
May Christ grow in your heart
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Lorarose:

I don’t believe - as you do- that the bible contains the entire story.
John was pretty clear about that at the end of his gospel wasn’t he?

Actually the Book of Revelation does show souls in heaven engaging in prayer.

Rev 6: 9-11

“When he broke open the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered because of the witness they bore to the word of God. They cried out in a loud voice, ‘How long will it be, holy and true master, before you sit in judgement and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?’
Each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to be patient a little while longer until the number was filled of their fellow servants and brothers who were going to be killed as they had been.”

This clearly shows souls in heaven who are both aware of earthly events (they are aware their blood has not yet been avenged) and they are able to offer their concern to God. They are concerned about how long it will take God to bring justice to their persecutors.God hears them and gives them a gift and an answer to their concerns. Is this not prayer?

We see heavenly souls aware of earthly events when Babylon falls.

Rev. 19: 1-3

"After this, I heard what sounded like the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying:
‘Alleluia!
Salvation, glory, and might belong to our God,
for true and just are his judgements.
He has condemned the great harlot
who corrupted the earth with her harlotry.
He has avenged on her the blood of his servants.’
They said a second time:
‘Alleluia! Smoke will rise from her forever and ever.’​

So…clearly souls in heaven can be aware of earthly events and take great concern over these events - why wouldn’t they?
These verses are on top of the other verses showing heavenly souls presenting prayers to God.
Why aren’t these prayers rising directly to Him? Why are they being mediators and presenting them to Him?

---

As for my baptized daughter who was 3 yrs. old at the time of her death…yes, I can say I am certain that my daughter is in heaven.
Our Heavenly Father is a kind and merciful God.
Jesus didn’t sacrifice Himself so that He could turn around and send innocent 3 yr. olds to hell.​

It is not an “either” “or” situation.
I pray directly to the Holy Trinity. I also believe that Jesus has generously given us many gifts - including the gift of each other.
We believe our fellow christians can pray for us even while we remain in this shadowy place - even when we remain in the state of sin.
The souls in heaven are united with God. They are much closer to Him than we are now.
Why would He NOT listen to the prayers of those purified souls?

Hi Lora,I agree that Jesus did not come to send anyone to hell. Its we who condem ourselves.I also believe your daughter is in Heaven,But you great great grandmother may be another story. I am not here to judge who is in heaven and who is not. I will leave that Job to Jesus Christ our judge.Do you think the saints in heaven have special powers.All prayers are presented to Christ before the throne room reguardless.Why not go to the main source? Again in Rev,19 vs1-3 These are the Elders [Saints] and angels singing before the throne. Angels are Gods messangers and probably revealed it to the Saints.On Rev 6vs9. These spirits were told to wait for the rest of the 144,000 that were to be lifted up for the Angels were busy putting the seal on the forehead of earthly saints,because the time was coming to destroy the lost here on earth. You see Angels are messangers and they can reveal what is going on in this earth. God Bless

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

edwinG:

Hi Lisa4Catholics,
Is this true, " We ask for the intercession of Mary" You pray to God in Jesus’s Holy name and ask Him to have Mary intercede for you.

I thought you asked Mary to intercede for you.

Your intention was set in stone. This is true Lisa, as I am desperate for the truth.

So God gave us the gift of His Son, at the cost of the Son’s blood, and you choose to use it sometimes and to use someother present (that could be in hell) at some other time. Lisa, I am not the one ignoring Christ, I fully accept this absolutely beautiful gift and use it exclusively
May Christ grow in your heart
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

Your response does not make any sense, are you implying that Catholics ignore Jesus?If so you are wrong and you are judging other peoples hearts,therfore,ingnoring the Authority of Jesus. And when your asking pastor Joe to pray for you when you can do it yourself, you are guilty of just what you are accussing us of doing exactly what you are doing. But you can not see that, Not only is Jesus Gods gift but Our Redeemer and since Christian are now a part of the body of Christ(who by the way was indeed ressurected)the Saints are NOT DEAD either. And if you believe that Christians are ONE with Christ you have to admit they intercede God Bless and I pray for you,too

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

edwinG:

Hi Lisa4Catholics,
Is this true, " We ask for the intercession of Mary" You pray to God in Jesus’s Holy name and ask Him to have Mary intercede for you.

I thought you asked Mary to intercede for you.

Your intention was set in stone. This is true Lisa, as I am desperate for the truth.

[So God gave us the gift of His Son, at the cost of the Son’s blood, and you choose to use it sometimes and to use someother present (that could be in hell) at some other time.] Lisa, I am not the one ignoring Christ, I fully accept this absolutely beautiful gift and use it exclusively
May Christ grow in your heart
walk in love
edwinGhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gifhttp://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon7.gif

Are you trying to imply that Mother Mary could be in HELL?:banghead:

 

[Lorarose]

Hi Lora,I agree that Jesus did not come to send anyone to hell. Its we who condem ourselves.I also believe your daughter is in Heaven,But you great great grandmother may be another story. I am not here to judge who is in heaven and who is not. I will leave that Job to Jesus Christ our judge.Do you think the saints in heaven have special powers.All prayers are presented to Christ before the throne room reguardless.Why not go to the main source? Again in Rev,19 vs1-3 These are the Elders [Saints] and angels singing before the throne. Angels are Gods messangers and probably revealed it to the Saints.On Rev 6vs9. These spirits were told to wait for the rest of the 144,000 that were to be lifted up for the Angels were busy putting the seal on the forehead of earthly saints,because the time was coming to destroy the lost here on earth. You see Angels are messangers and they can reveal what is going on in this earth. God Bless

I never said I ask my great great grandmother for intercession now did I?
Do I think the saints in heaven have special powers?
I’m not sure what you mean by “special”. We know that all “power” belongs to God. God chooses what to do with this power doesn’t He?
For example - Jesus chose to use His Divine Power to heal, to forgive, and even to raise the dead.
Did He retain this power to Himself? No.
He gave these “special powers” to His apostles too.
It appears to me that Jesus likes it when we help each other.
Sometimes God chooses to work through people. He touches people with other people.

Why would it be any different with the saints in heaven? In fact - they are even closer to God in heaven than they were on earth.
Who are we to say that God cannot work through them? Or give them gifts to use? They were given gifts while on earth - why not in heaven?

You ask me “Why not go to the main source”?
What makes you think I don’t? It is not “either” “or”.
Why not accept the bountiful gifts that God bestows upon us?
He has given us the gift of each other.
We pray directly to God, and we pray for each other.
Whenever you pray for someone else you are acting as a mediator, just like the saints in the Book of Revelation are acting as mediators.
Why do you place these artificial barriers on the gifts of God?
When you ask others to pray for you are you failing to go directly to “the source” because you’ve asked someone to mediate for you?​

Revelations 19.
In verse one the elders and creatures are not mentioned. Instead it says…"…the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven…"
After this “great multitude” rejoices over the fall of Babylon - only then do we read “The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshipped God who sat on the throne,…”

24 elders do not constitute a “great multitude” and you don’t know that the “four living creatures” are angels. Other parts of Revelations clearly identifies angels as “angels”.
So…there is no proof in this section that supports your theory that the heavenly saints can only know about earthly events because the angels told them (where is THAT in the bible?)
Nor is there evidence of this theory in the other verse I supplied.
In fact, you ignored the fact that this clearly shows heavenly souls praying to God concerning earthly events!

There is no scriptural support for the belief that heavenly souls are incapable of intercession.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

Lorarose:

I never said I ask my great great grandmother for intercession now did I?
Do I think the saints in heaven have special powers?
I’m not sure what you mean by “special”. We know that all “power” belongs to God. God chooses what to do with this power doesn’t He?
For example - Jesus chose to use His Divine Power to heal, to forgive, and even to raise the dead.
Did He retain this power to Himself? No.
He gave these “special powers” to His apostles too.
It appears to me that Jesus likes it when we help each other.
Sometimes God chooses to work through people. He touches people with other people.

Why would it be any different with the saints in heaven? In fact - they are even closer to God in heaven than they were on earth.
Who are we to say that God cannot work through them? Or give them gifts to use? They were given gifts while on earth - why not in heaven?

You ask me “Why not go to the main source”?
What makes you think I don’t? It is not “either” “or”.
Why not accept the bountiful gifts that God bestows upon us?
He has given us the gift of each other.
We pray directly to God, and we pray for each other.
Whenever you pray for someone else you are acting as a mediator, just like the saints in the Book of Revelation are acting as mediators.
Why do you place these artificial barriers on the gifts of God?
When you ask others to pray for you are you failing to go directly to “the source” because you’ve asked someone to mediate for you?​

Revelations 19.
In verse one the elders and creatures are not mentioned. Instead it says…"…the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven…"
After this “great multitude” rejoices over the fall of Babylon - only then do we read “The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshipped God who sat on the throne,…”

24 elders do not constitute a “great multitude” and you don’t know that the “four living creatures” are angels. Other parts of Revelations clearly identifies angels as “angels”.
So…there is no proof in this section that supports your theory that the heavenly saints can only know about earthly events because the angels told them (where is THAT in the bible?)
Nor is there evidence of this theory in the other verse I supplied.
In fact, you ignored the fact that this clearly shows heavenly souls praying to God concerning earthly events!

There is no scriptural support for the belief that heavenly souls are incapable of intercession.

Hi Lora, those four creatures were Angels as outlined in appearance in rev4 vs 7&8. Notice they had wings.In rev 19vs 1 it sounded like a great assembly but it was the 24 Elders and Angels. Pretty strong voices they had.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

Hello to all:

I’m new to this thread and have not read all of the posts, but I thought I’d add my comment on the discussion for what it’s worth:

I think there’s a fundamental difference in the way Catholics and Protestants think of the “church” and that difference is affecting the perception of prayers to saints. Catholics believe that the Church is made up of members here on earth, those on their way to heaven, and those already in heaven. Those already in heaven are the ones we call the saints. And when we pray to a saint asking for their intercession, we are asking them to pray for us, just like a protestant may stand up at a worship service and ask his fellow christians to pray for him. No one in that protestant worship service would shout at him that he does not need their prayers because he can go directly to Jesus. Instead, I’m sure that these loving christians would pray to Jesus for the man’s intentions. Catholics see no difference when it comes to a prayer to a saint in heaven. We’re asking for support in the same way, the only difference being, that we can only communicate with that saint by prayer.

Protestants do not believe that praying to saints is helpful, and that’s their right. In part I think this is because the “church” to them is made up of only persons here on earth. But in my humble opinion the protestant view misses out on a prime opportunity.

(One favorite nun I know used to describe prayer to the saints as kind of like talking to a co-worker who has received a promotion at work, and asking him to “put in a good word for you” with the boss. It’s a colloquialism, but a good one. No one says I can’t talk to the Big Boss myself, but wouldn’t it be better if I went to the boss with a “VP” or maybe even His Mother, when I wanted Him to address my little concerns? )

Another side-note: In Catholic terminology, prayer does not equal worship. Prayer is synonnmous with “petition” or “request.” Worship is directed only to God.

Catholics do not believe that we can only approach God through saints. We too believe that we can go directly to God. That’s not the issue. The issue is whether it is appropriate for christians on earth to seek the prayers and intercessions of those we believe to be in Heaven. Nothing in the Bible says that this is wrong and in fact it is consistent with the way in which the early Church perceived the structure of the Church as it extended into Heaven.

I don’t know if this helps or not, but it’s just my two cents.

Peace to all, and to all a Merry Christmas!

 

[TTM]

Hi edwinG,

edwinG:

No Eliakim is of Jesus; the key of David and opens and shuts
Peter has the keys of heaven and binds and loosens.
You are in error.

My understanding is that Eliakin is a type for Peter. Therefore, the Key that he holds for the Earthly Davidiac Kingdom is also a type for the Heavenly Key that Peter holds for the Heavenly Davidiac Kingdom. Makes sense, no?

IT is a fact they are where they are. You are thus denying that the Holy Spirit wants/allows them to be there. See you are denying His capability. You in your wisdom, and from your teachings, think that they are somewhere he doesnt want them. You are saying they are not on their journey. I ask you, How do you know this? Where did your wisdom come to make such a claim? I dont know, but I am very sure that He is in control, completely. Christ has complete authority in all things except times and seasons. So be patient TTM and you will see His hand moving at the time that wisdom says to move.Dont think He can be ignored.

I think it is obvious that if Jesus set up an Earthly authority, he would send the Holy Spirit for it to have guidance in order to support that authority.

I’m not denying that the Holy Spirit is in other Churches too. No - this is why I said “in that particular way”. There are many gifts, but the same Spirit. The gift of infallibility rests on the authority that has been set up. By rejecting this authority, one is bound to go astray in terms of doctrines. That’s my understanding.

Any wisdom I have comes from the Holy Spirit. Any lack of understanding comes from my flesh.

God bless!
TTM

 

[TTM]

edwinG:

Hi TTM
Can you show me where I stated that once saved always saved.

I was not point to your view, but to a widespread Protestant notion that colours the doctrinal view regarding prayer.

My post just said that if you go to Mary you are denying Christ, who died for you. Before Christ died He said, pray to the Father in my name, you havent done that before but do it now.

Yes, but it is obviously colouring your perspective on prayer. As I have said, Catholics all pray in the name of Jesus, even when asking Saints to pray for us. We do everything in his name, because otherwise nothing good can get done!

When He died, the curtain was torn so you could go directly to God.

Yes, that’s why Jesus is our mediator, but it is also why we can intercede on people’s behalf - because we are the body of Chirst.

Now catholics stand Mary in front of Him and make God’s gift of Christ a mockery.

Unless, of course, we have a greater understanding of the role of Christ’s Body, which Mary is a part of. Intercession is a vital task that the Body of Christ is called to take part in:

1 Tim 2:1
“First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all”

Please answer this question. Can God save you without the intercession of the saints who have passed from earth?

Yes. However, we believe that we have a better chance at it. It is a source of grace that God himself bestows on us.

Please please see what you are doing. Christ is your intercessor in heaven and the Holy Spirit on earth.

Yes, I agree with that. This is why, like I said, the Body of Christ intercedes for us in heaven also, through the Holy Spirit (if the Holy Spirit lives in us now, imagine how much more they would be united to him in Heaven!).

God bless,
TTM

 

[TTM]

edwinG:

So now you are saying the Holy Spirit is not as effective if one is stained by sin. Where is this in scripture?

Funny you should ask. It’s in my post which you have quoted, but here it is again:

James 5:16-18:
“The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects. 17 Eli’jah was a man of like nature with ourselves and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth its fruit.”

You dont have the power or authority to make your prayers more or less effective. DO you think by using a “saint” you can get around God. This is a very foolish line of thinking. There is nothing between you and God now that you have Jesus’s blood and in His name you are to go to the father. These are childrens thoughts, to attempt to sidestep God. God doesnt want holy people’s prayers for you. He wants you to humble yourself and pray to HIm with a repentant heart. You dont have a proxy.

I never claimed to have power or authority to change the effectiveness of prayer. Please stop presuming things, it’s called “a straw man” argument. It never helps to find the Truth.

Like I said, your thinking is coloured by the “once saved, always saved” mentality, which is that we have perfect union with God, all the time, as soon as you accept him as our Saviour. Holiness, we believe, is a journey.

Yes, of course he wants us to humble ourselves and pray to him, and of course we do that. The most humble thing you can do is to say, “Lord, I’m far from perfect, so I’ll ask this person to pray for me”. Ths is exactly what you say, when you say the Hail Mary: “pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen”.

 

[TTM]

edwinG:

Hi TTM,
How do you make stubbornness out of following the request of a catholic supporter, MariaG.

This is something only you can answer honestly, of course, but I felt that your post from the Rosary thread showed plenty of preconceptions and your unwillingness to see the possibilities. Also the fact that you made your fasting and prayer very public does make me wonder somewhat. I will not make a judgement call, however.

Do you believe in your heart that God and Christ and the Holy Spirit hear your every word and thought and if you pray with sincerity they will answer you? I beg you TTM seek the truth. Stop talking and start acting.

I believe that the Holy Spirit prays for me, yes, and that Christ hears my prayers, yes, but I also believe that any imperfections I have get in the way of the Holy Spirit, my intercessor, and Christ. Am I as righteous as Elijah? I must say I am not. Am I as righteous as Mary, who was free from sin all her life? Definitely no.

Again I ask you, Do you believe that God alone can save you?

Yes, of course! Everything is God’s grace. Our friends’ prayers are God’s grace. Our intercessors in the Body of Christ are God’s grace. This is why we humbly and gratefully accept these sources of grace.

God bless,
TTM

 

[TTM]

edwinG:

I ask people to pray for me, because it humbles me to have to ask for help which stops pride growing and it promotes love and fellowship between christians. Additionally, when the prayer is answered it builds faith, and it witnesses to the body of the church so that many people can be edified.
When people ask me to pray for them, my doing so is an act of love for my fellow man and this pleases God.
God already knows what we are going to pray for. And often, He answers our thoughts and bowls us over with the depth of His love for us. That is why I and probably many people believe in intercession, of people here on earth.

edwinG, that’s great! It’s exactly the same for us, except that we believe that this bond that we have through Christ extends to those who are alive in Christ in Heaven. Remember, we can all share in intercession for the world because of our Royal Priesthood, which comes from our sharing of Jesus’ Eternal Priesthood, because, in a sense, we are Jesus. We are his Body. We are all alive in the same way. Here on Earth, we already have Eternal Life. It is the same with those in Heaven. Our bond due to being in the Body of Christ means that they intercede for us, because they witness us and share in Christ’s intercession.

God bless,
TTM

 

[Calv150]

If you can pray directly to God? Why bother with praying through saints? What is the point?

Where in the bible does it say Mary is DEFINATELY in heaven? it seems logical that she is but is it actually biblical? (New christian, still learning my bible!)

God Bless

Calv