Protestant - Catholic - Protestant?

[Calgar]

Catholics aren’t normally taught that Protestants are all going to hell… that is what many Protestants (note, I didn’t say all) ARE taught about Catholics.

.

At least as far as the sbc is concerned you are incorrect. We are second in size only to the catholic church in America so I’d say that’s a pretty large group of protestants who don’t believe your outlandish and insulting claim.

sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=964

 

[nickybr38]

At least as far as the sbc is concerned you are incorrect. We are second in size only to the catholic church in America so I’d say that’s a pretty large group of protestants who don’t believe your outlandish and insulting claim.

sbc.net/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=964

I attended a Baptist church. I attended an Evangelical church and I attended many Pentecostal churches. All of them taught the Catholics are damned to hell.

That has largely been my experience outside of the internet. I acknowledge that not all Protestant denominations teach this but this is all I have personally been exposed to and what I grew up hearing.

In one Bible study (prior to my decision to convert) the entire study was spent bashing the Catholic church.

Edited to Add: In fact, the Baptist church I attended had phamplets in the foyer that said in nice big letters: WHY CATHOLICS ARE WRONG… right along with the phamplets bashing J.W.'s and Mormons. I remember this because I thought it was ridiculous for a church to have material in the FOYER bashing other churches.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I attended a Baptist church. I attended an Evangelical church and I attended many Pentecostal churches. All of them taught the Catholics are damned to hell.

That has largely been my experience outside of the internet. I acknowledge that not all Protestant denominations teach this but this is all I have personally been exposed to and what I grew up hearing.

In one Bible study (prior to my decision to convert) the entire study was spent bashing the Catholic church.

Edited to Add: In fact, the Baptist church I attended had phamplets in the foyer that said in nice big letters: WHY CATHOLICS ARE WRONG… right along with the phamplets bashing J.W.'s and Mormons. I remember this because I thought it was ridiculous for a church to have material in the FOYER bashing other churches.

Nicky—

I know some people have had experiences similar to yours, and I’m sure that kind of negativity leaves a deep impression. But, still it’s not the norm.

I’ve had several friends who grew up Catholic right before and during Vatican II times tell me that they were taught as children that Protestants were going to hell, and that if they dated a Protestant they were headed for hell, too.

 

[nickybr38]

Nicky—

I know some people have had experiences similar to yours, and I’m sure that kind of negativity leaves a deep impression. But, still it’s not the norm.

I’ve had several friends who grew up Catholic right before and during Vatican II times tell me that they were taught as children that Protestants were going to hell, and that if they dated a Protestant they were headed for hell, too.

That’s interesting. Not having grown up Catholic I don’t really know what Catholics are taught. If they are indeed taught that it must be a very hard decision to leave the church! Just as hard as it is for Protestants (who grew up with this negativity) to cross the Tiber!

On either side it must be difficult to hear things when inside you’re thinking: THAT’S NOT WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHES!!!

Haha. Which is why I try to speak only about my experiences rather then speak about what individual churches teach.

 

[AbideWithMe]

That’s interesting. Not having grown up Catholic I don’t really know what Catholics are taught. If they are indeed taught that it must be a very hard decision to leave the church! Just as hard as it is for Protestants (who grew up with this negativity) to cross the Tiber!

On either side it must be difficult to hear things when inside you’re thinking: THAT’S NOT WHAT THE CHURCH TEACHES!!!

Haha. Which is why I try to speak only about my experiences rather then speak about what individual churches teach.

Well said, Nicky.

 

[stewstew03]

I attended a Baptist church. I attended an Evangelical church and I attended many Pentecostal churches. All of them taught the Catholics are damned to hell…

“Damned to hell” might be a little strong, but they definitely teach that Catholics need to learn the true path to salvation. This is why Southern Baptist organizations like the North American Mission Board and the International Mission Board try to plant churches in communities with a sizable population of Catholics - it’s an effort to “save” them and preach the “true” Gospel.

 

[Calgar]

I attended a Baptist church. I attended an Evangelical church and I attended many Pentecostal churches. All of them taught the Catholics are damned to hell.

That has largely been my experience outside of the internet. I acknowledge that not all Protestant denominations teach this but this is all I have personally been exposed to and what I grew up hearing.

In one Bible study (prior to my decision to convert) the entire study was spent bashing the Catholic church.

Edited to Add: In fact, the Baptist church I attended had phamplets in the foyer that said in nice big letters: WHY CATHOLICS ARE WRONG… right along with the phamplets bashing J.W.'s and Mormons. I remember this because I thought it was ridiculous for a church to have material in the FOYER bashing other churches.

FYI Baptist doesn’t mean SBC.

 

[CarrieH]

Going back to the original question, I know two people who have converted P-C-P. Both are women, both were/are Methodists, and both converted when they married Catholic men. The first one went through RCIA, had a Catholic wedding, and attended Mass with her husband and children, but was never truly Catholic in her heart (her own words). They had drifted away from regular Mass attendance, and once the kids were grown and on their own, hubby quit going to Mass altogether and my friend went back to the Methodist church where she grew up, which happens to be in the same city. The second gal is a music teacher. She converted when she got married, but she later took a job as choir director in a Methodist church in a small town 15 miles away. Some years later she and her husband went through a nasty divorce. She told me that she felt more “at home” with the Methodists, that they were “there for her” during this difficult chapter of her life, and that the Catholic Church reminded her of her life with her ex, which she didn’t want to think about. She ended up moving to that small town and joining that Methodist congregation as a member.

 

[nickybr38]

FYI Baptist doesn’t mean SBC.

Fair enough! I’m not well versed in denominations in all honesty. I attended many but only the ones that came up this way.

 

[AbideWithMe]

“Damned to hell” might be a little strong, but they definitely teach that Catholics need to learn the true path to salvation. This is why Southern Baptist organizations like the North American Mission Board and the International Mission Board try to plant churches in communities with a sizable population of Catholics - it’s an effort to “save” them and preach the “true” Gospel.

stewstew03—

Here’s the text of the document “Evangelicals and Catholics Together” which was formulated and signed by a good number of significant Evangelical leaders. It specifically addresses some of your concerns. leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9405/articles/mission.html

It’s kind of long, but worth reading. No, not all Protestants or Catholics were happy with it, but nevertheless it’s a good try at being more considerate of each other.

 

[DerrickGuns]

You know the bible says God puts searching into our hearts for something other than this world. I believe he gave me a double portion of that.

I definitely believe in an intelligent creator. Be it God or someone else. I believe it to be God. But is there really a trinity? Was Jesus actually God and the Holy Spirit all combined yet separate. I believe that but where in scripture is the word trinity? The trinity came from the Roman Catholic Church. So there are things outside of scripture we believe as doctrine sometimes.

Yes you could say I am into doctrinal issues a great deal.

Have you ever been to a Church where they did things you felt just wasn’t right? And they didn’t do them until you already became heavily involved with them. Like preach a sermon that sounds not quite completely biblically based and telling you you should live a certain way by it?

I remember when I belonged to an Assembly of God church there for a while. They said you had to speak in tongues to be truly saved as a sign that the Holy Spirit was dwelling in you. Trouble is anyone could fake it and they would say it was a gift from God. Because even faking it was trying, thereby you were speaking in tongues by golly. Now that just never sit right with me even though I got a charge out of the preaching and the bible studies. Of course they had scriptures to back this point of view up as well so I believed what they said for a time. Until I did my own studying and could not support the idea myself from what the Holy Spirit was causing me to discern. Now I don’t want to fall into the same trap.

I belonged to a Sabbitarian church for a time. Until they said I should not work on Saturdays and needed to spend a certain amount of money to go someplace to celebrate one of the old testament festivals. Well of course the ten commandments tell us to keep the Sabbath day holy and rest from our labors. But the Catholic Church changed our rest day to Sunday a long time ago. The Sabbitatians said Jesus did not come to do away with the laws but to enhance them if you will. As Jesus said himself. So they still felt it was necessary to observe the Sabbath.

Have you ever known anyone involved with Healthcare that did not have to work some Saturdays? They said not all healthcare actually included working but furnished a necessary aide that was needed or it may cause suffering so I was partially excluded from the rule. But I was still getting paid for it so they were unsure.

When I studied with the Jehovah’s Witnesses twice in my life I believed everything they taught me. They were the only ones to come to visit me once a week. Then they got me to go door to door once. What a bummer that is. People see you coming and run not walk the other way. They also made demands on my job that I could not uphold. Like off when they meet on Thursday evenings and Wednesdays and Sundays. Plus some Saturdays and any other time you have available off. Then there music really sucks. They have there own music and songs to sing. Mainstream worship music is totally off limits to listen to, as well as most other types of music. Cause it creates sentimental emotions that Satan can use against you to turn you back to your former life.

Then there are the Baptists that put down other churches like the Catholic Church and the pentacostals. I mean come on now we don’t have to put each other down when we’re there to worship God do we?

So now I am looking into the Catholic Church as an ideal church to belong to. Once I got passed the praying to Mary and the Saints. You pray to them to pray for you like you would say to a friend or pastor to pray for you. Since Catholics still think everyone that has died is actually alive in heaven that is why they do this.

Then there was the infallibility of the pope question. I learned this was only when he was seated at his position as pope and only on doctrinal matters. He is fallible otherwise. Like he could not predict the weather or go against the word of God. Yes I think I could spend the rest of my life reading about the Catholic Church and it’s saints and all to keep me busy I think and hope.

Oh and the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that everyone is going to be resurrected to judgement. And God will create a new heaven and new earth the bible says. He made the earth for us to dwell on forever. So we are basically looking at heaven albeit not up to the newer standards that God will create. They teach that the 144,000 that go to heaven are special saints that God chooses to help him with the new government he must establish on the new earth he creates for our resurrected bodies. All that seems quite logical when you think about it. Some that have been chosen in the past can actually loose their saint hood while in heaven and choose not to do what God calls them to do thereby leaving openings for new ones to be selected from time to time. Don’t ask me to explain that cause I don’t have a clue how that would happen.

Anyway I plan to stay with the Catholic Church for the remainder of my days learning as much as I can. Am learning a lot everyday and love every minute of it. God bless you all

 

[DerrickGuns]

You know the bible says God puts searching into our hearts for something other than this world. I believe he gave me a double portion of that.

I definitely believe in an intelligent creator. Be it God or someone else. I believe it to be God. But is there really a trinity? Was Jesus actually God and the Holy Spirit all combined yet separate. I believe that but where in scripture is the word trinity? The trinity came from the Roman Catholic Church. So there are things outside of scripture we believe as doctrine sometimes.

Yes you could say I am into doctrinal issues a great deal.

Have you ever been to a Church where they did things you felt just wasn’t right? And they didn’t do them until you already became heavily involved with them. Like preach a sermon that sounds not quite completely biblically based and telling you you should live a certain way by it?

I remember when I belonged to an Assembly of God church there for a while. They said you had to speak in tongues to be truly saved as a sign that the Holy Spirit was dwelling in you. Trouble is anyone could fake it and they would say it was a gift from God. Because even faking it was trying, thereby you were speaking in tongues by golly. Now that just never sit right with me even though I got a charge out of the preaching and the bible studies. Of course they had scriptures to back this point of view up as well so I believed what they said for a time. Until I did my own studying and could not support the idea myself from what the Holy Spirit was causing me to discern. Now I don’t want to fall into the same trap.

I belonged to a Sabbitarian church for a time. Until they said I should not work on Saturdays and needed to spend a certain amount of money to go someplace to celebrate one of the old testament festivals. Well of course the ten commandments tell us to keep the Sabbath day holy and rest from our labors. But the Catholic Church changed our rest day to Sunday a long time ago. The Sabbitatians said Jesus did not come to do away with the laws but to enhance them if you will. As Jesus said himself. So they still felt it was necessary to observe the Sabbath.

Have you ever known anyone involved with Healthcare that did not have to work some Saturdays? They said not all healthcare actually included working but furnished a necessary aide that was needed or it may cause suffering so I was partially excluded from the rule. But I was still getting paid for it so they were unsure.

When I studied with the Jehovah’s Witnesses twice in my life I believed everything they taught me. They were the only ones to come to visit me once a week. Then they got me to go door to door once. What a bummer that is. People see you coming and run not walk the other way. They also made demands on my job that I could not uphold. Like off when they meet on Thursday evenings and Wednesdays and Sundays. Plus some Saturdays and any other time you have available off. Then there music really sucks. They have there own music and songs to sing. Mainstream worship music is totally off limits to listen to, as well as most other types of music. Cause it creates sentimental emotions that Satan can use against you to turn you back to your former life.

Then there are the Baptists that put down other churches like the Catholic Church and the pentacostals. I mean come on now we don’t have to put each other down when we’re there to worship God do we?

So now I am looking into the Catholic Church as an ideal church to belong to. Once I got passed the praying to Mary and the Saints. You pray to them to pray for you like you would say to a friend or pastor to pray for you. Since Catholics still think everyone that has died is actually alive in heaven that is why they do this.

Then there was the infallibility of the pope question. I learned this was only when he was seated at his position as pope and only on doctrinal matters. He is fallible otherwise. Like he could not predict the weather or go against the word of God. Yes I think I could spend the rest of my life reading about the Catholic Church and it’s saints and all to keep me busy I think and hope.

Oh and the Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that everyone is going to be resurrected to judgement. And God will create a new heaven and new earth the bible says. He made the earth for us to dwell on forever. So we are basically looking at heaven albeit not up to the newer standards that God will create. They teach that the 144,000 that go to heaven are special saints that God chooses to help him with the new government he must establish on the new earth he creates for our resurrected bodies. All that seems quite logical when you think about it. Some that have been chosen in the past can actually loose their saint hood while in heaven and choose not to do what God calls them to do thereby leaving openings for new ones to be selected from time to time. Don’t ask me to explain that cause I don’t have a clue how that would happen.

Anyway I plan to stay with the Catholic Church for the remainder of my days learning as much as I can. Am learning a lot everyday and love every minute of it. God bless you all.

Oh and don’t think I am bashing any of the religious systems I have noted above. I am just looking for the truth and I believe I have found it in the Roman Catholic Church. I have also studied the Kabbalah, witchcraft, and gnosticism, toaism, buddhism, and others. I believe they all led me back to Jesus Christ and the Roman Catcholic faith. And many have similar beliefs I might add in some respects. If you compare everything.

 

[Arrowsmith1994]

The road between Catholicism and Evangelicalism is a two way street. People move in both directions. The big difference is that Catholics become Evangelicals when they don’t understand their faith and Evangelicals become Catholic when they do understand their faith.

 

[Arrowsmith1994]

And here we have a difference of opinion.

Separate issue: Do you use the word Catholic in place of the word Christian? Do the words mean the same thing to you? Do you believe that Protestants are not Christian?

I’m just curious. If the only way I could bring someone to Christ was to bring them to the Roman Catholic Church then I would be grabbing a phone book and looking up the closest parish I could find.

Calgar, great question. The use of the word Catholic is an English idiom known as “you understood”. It is understood (or should be) that the complete adjective-noun combination is “Catholic Chrisitan” but to shorten it you use the adjective as a noun and in place of the noun.

 

[Calgar]

Calgar, great question. The use of the word Catholic is an English idiom known as “you understood”. It is understood (or should be) that the complete adjective-noun combination is “Catholic Chrisitan” but to shorten it you use the adjective as a noun and in place of the noun.

So you are saying that protestants are Cathoic Christians? They just don’t know it?

 

[nickybr38]

So you are saying that protestants are Cathoic Christians? They just don’t know it?

catholic Christian, I would say. But I’d be interested to hear Arrowsmith’s reply.

Catholic Christian’s are those who adhere to the Traditions (oral and written) of the Catholic Church whereas catholic Christian’s are those Christian’s who are separated from the Catholic Church.

 

[Stephen_Korsman]

The road between Catholicism and Evangelicalism is a two way street. People move in both directions. The big difference is that Catholics become Evangelicals when they don’t understand their faith and Evangelicals become Catholic when they do understand their faith.

Catholics become Evangelicals when they think they understand their faith, and when they proclaim this, all Evangelicals agree.
Evangelicals become Catholics when they think they understand their faith, and when they proclaim this, all Catholics agree.

Both are largely subjective experiences.

From the point of view of someone who understands Catholicism, it would be obvious that the former group did not understand their faith, and the latter do.

From the point of view of someone who understands Evangelicalism, it would be obvious that the latter group did not understand their faith, and the former do.

To a Catholic ex-Evangelical, Sola Scriptura makes no sense. To an Evangelical, it makes perfect sense and the converse makes no sense.

It’s all subjective, even when appearing to be objective, and even when it coincides with what is objective.

I lost my faith in the ability to convince anyone of my version (and the general Catholic apologist version) of whatever arguments I used to defend/promote Catholicism when it became obvious to me that no matter how much the average anti-Catholic read or had explained to them, they could still not fathom it. Except for the rare exception. The best it can usually do is leave something for the subconscious to shift around.

And there the key word is “subconscious” - it just ends up in another subjective a) change to the Catholic view or b) affirmation of the anti-Catholic view.

On the supernatural level, you can argue that grace is given to make a change. But from the human perspective, whether the grace brings one to Catholicism (Catholic view) or out of Catholicism (Evangelical view), it’s still a subjective experience, even if it’s a subjective experience of objective facts.

I’m going in circles now, which is really what it is all about.

 

[Arrowsmith1994]

Stephen Korsman,

We can’t be subjective. Either Christianity is true, or it isn’t. If it is true, either some form of Protestantism is true or Catholicism is true or neither. But they are not both true at the same time. I realize that it is a broad sweeping statement, but just think about it.

You may have had trouble getting Protestants to see the truth in Catholicism because some people engage you without any real ablility to change their perspective. We are all social creatures and it completey rattles a person’s social network when they leave Evangelicalism to become Catholic. If people are not in a place to make that move socially, they can block off their ablility to see your sound reasoning.

 

[Calgar]

Stephen Korsman,

We can’t be subjective. Either Christianity is true, or it isn’t. If it is true, either some form of Protestantism is true or Catholicism is true or neither. But they are not both true at the same time.

lol

And this is just because you say so?

 

[Calgar]

Stephen Korsman,

We can’t be subjective. Either Christianity is true, or it isn’t. If it is true, either some form of Protestantism is true or Catholicism is true or neither. But they are not both true at the same time. I realize that it is a broad sweeping statement, but just think about it.

Oh, and non sequitur, look it up.