Protestant Churches and the Holocaust

[SonofMonica]

Assembly of God does not keep online records of official documents of 60 years ago.

I was not around then, so I have no first hand experience of this time period as far as the church goes.

If I were really motivated, I suppose I could do research to try to figure this out. Such research would probably involve a flight to headquarters in Missouri to look at back records.

I do not have sufficient motivation to justify the time and money to justify such a research project.

I suspect people of other denominations here probably could if they wanted to, invest the time and money to search their church archives to find the information you request. But likewise, I suspect they do not have the motivation to justify this expense in time and money.

I do not get the point of this thread.

Have you ever watched the History Channel? The Catholic Church, in particular the Pope during WWII, is often criticized for not ‘doing enough’ to ‘prevent’ the spread of Nazism on a public, ‘official’ level. So the OP is asking for evidence of what non-Catholic churches did to officially condemn or publicly oppose or fight the spread of Nazism in Germany in WWII. It shouldn’t be a frustrating concept or cause any contempt. For example, the OP may be looking for something like this document that came out yesterday from the Episcopal Church: episcopalchurch.org/79901_115360_ENG_HTM.htm only related to Nazism.

 

[SonofMonica]

To the OP, a Google search returned this book, which looks promising:

A church divided: German Protestants confront the Nazi past
By Matthew D. Hockenos

 

[SonofMonica]

Interesting: history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/corrieschroder.htm

 

[NotTooSmart]

Have you ever watched the History Channel? The Catholic Church, in particular the Pope during WWII, is often criticized for not ‘doing enough’ to ‘prevent’ the spread of Nazism on a public, ‘official’ level. So the OP is asking for evidence of what non-Catholic churches did to officially condemn or publicly oppose or fight the spread of Nazism in Germany in WWII. It shouldn’t be a frustrating concept or cause any contempt. For example, the OP may be looking for something like this document that came out yesterday from the Episcopal Church: episcopalchurch.org/79901_115360_ENG_HTM.htm only related to Nazism.

He is also asking for source documents from the churches in question.

My denomination doesn’t keep 60 year old documents on line. I would have to search archives at headquarters. I am not interested enough in this topic to do so.

With the Catholic church, for better or worse, there is plenty of information on this topic online. Probably it is because being the largest you are the most visible. Also perhaps it is because headquarters for the Catholics (Vatican City) is in fact a country in itself. I guess when you are #1 in terms of size and influence you become a bigger target.

So for better or worse, there is a lot more information out there for folks to have an opinion on whether the Catholic church “did enough” as opposed to whether Assemblies of God “did enough”.

As for me, I don’t like to form opinions unless I have done the preliminary research. On this topic, I just don’t have motivation to do the research. Sorry.

I still don’t get the point of this thread anywy.

 

[SonofMonica]

He is also asking for source documents from the churches in question.

My denomination doesn’t keep 60 year old documents on line. I would have to search archives at headquarters. I am not interested enough in this topic to do so.

With the Catholic church, for better or worse, there is plenty of information on this topic online. Probably it is because being the largest you are the most visible. Also perhaps it is because headquarters for the Catholics (Vatican City) is in fact a country in itself. I guess when you are #1 in terms of size and influence you become a bigger target.

So for better or worse, there is a lot more information out there for folks to have an opinion on whether the Catholic church “did enough” as opposed to whether Assemblies of God “did enough”.

As for me, I don’t like to form opinions unless I have done the preliminary research. On this topic, I just don’t have motivation to do the research. Sorry.

I still don’t get the point of this thread anywy.

I’ve explained the point. What’s hard, is to determine the point of your posting on this thread, only to ultimately insist that you don’t know anything and don’t care. You claim you’re not interested enough to do research, then you give an opinion anyway, then you state you don’t want to give an opinion without research. The point of this thread is asking for results of research. You don’t need to post just to say that you’re not going to do the research. The absence of a post by you would be sufficient for us to reach that conclusion.

 

[NotTooSmart]

I’ve explained the point. What’s hard, is to determine the point of your posting on this thread, only to ultimately insist that you don’t know anything and don’t care. You claim you’re not interested enough to do research, then you give an opinion anyway, then you state you don’t want to give an opinion without research. The point of this thread is asking for results of research. You don’t need to post just to say that you’re not going to do the research. The absence of a post by you would be sufficient for us to reach that conclusion.

I was responding to this fragment of the OP.

I’m amazed–really amazed–that no one knows what their church did during WWII. Apparently you don’t, either, or you would have provided the information.

Does anyone know of any official documents regarding Nazi atrocities that were put out by your church during WWII?

In specific, I was trying to help him in his amazement by pointing out the fact that for my church, the information is not available online. It would require a trip to headquarters in Missouri to search old church records. This would require a plane flight and 3-4 vacation days.

I am sorry, but no question from an anonymous poster over the internet is worth that amount of personal sacrifice of time and money from me. I suspect it is that way with others.

So maybe, just maybe, the OP can cease being amazed on this issue.

 

[SonofMonica]

I was responding to this fragment of the OP.

In specific, I was trying to help him in his amazement by pointing out the fact that for my church, the information is not available online. It would require a trip to headquarters in Missouri to search old church records. This would require a plane flight and 3-4 vacation days.

I am sorry, but no question from an anonymous poster over the internet is worth that amount of personal sacrifice of time and money from me. I suspect it is that way with others.

So maybe, just maybe, the OP can cease being amazed on this issue.

Hmm… well, I am able to find this policy regarding political issues through a simple browsing of the Assemblies of God website:

ag.org/top/Beliefs/contempissues_10_politics.cfm

Does the Assemblies of God involve itself in political issues?

The Assemblies of God is apolitical; that is, it takes a neutral stance on purely political issues. The role of government and politics is different from the role of the church. While the church and government are both institutions ordained by God (Romans 13:1-7) and should respect each other, it is imperative neither institution overstep its given role. Both serve God’s purposes through separate functions.

---

From this position the Assemblies of God encourages its members and adherents to influence society and the political process by voting, maintaining strong moral convictions and holy lifestyles (Matthew 5:13), praying for government officials (1 Timothy 2:2), encouraging and promoting legislation that strengthens the nation morally, and speaking out both corporately and individually against any political issue that would have an adverse affect upon the kingdom of God or His moral absolutes.

So we see a statement that the AG church is apolitical; it encourages its “members and adherents” to do the speaking out against political issues that violate morality. Doesn’t sound like you’d find a statement by the AG church, regardless of whether you went to Missouri or not.

 

[NotTooSmart]

Hmm… well, I am able to find this policy regarding political issues through a simple browsing of the Assemblies of God website:

ag.org/top/Beliefs/contempissues_10_politics.cfm

So we see a statement that the AG church is apolitical; it encourages its “members and adherents” to do the speaking out against political issues that violate morality. Doesn’t sound like you’d find a statement by the AG church, regardless of whether you went to Missouri or not.

Well I put “Assembly of God holocaust” into google and did not find anything.

Anyway, your quote is under “contemporary issues.”

By apolitical, it means we do not endorse political candidates or specific political parties. It does not mean that we do not speak out on moral issues.

If you put into their search criteria abortion, you will find plenty on abortion. That is a contemporary issue.

When I put holocaust in their search criteria, I got references to the holocaust in Africa. That too is understandable since it is a contemporary issue.

The holocaust under nazi Germany is 60 years old. It is not a contemporary issue.

Now I expect that 60 years ago, if I had put holocaust into google, I would have gotten stuff against it just like I am finding on abortion today. Of course they didn’t have google 60 years ago, but hypothetically of course.

 

[SonofMonica]

This is under contemporary issues. The holocaust is 60 years old.

You may not get why I find it funny, but that sentence made me laugh. For the Catholic Church, 60 years old is quite contemporary! For example, the pope from the WWII period is still under consideration for beatification. There’s an old saying that goes, if you don’t like the way the Catholic Church does something, stick around 500 years…

 

[kalt]

You may not get why I find it funny, but that sentence made me laugh. For the Catholic Church, 60 years old is quite contemporary! For example, the pope from the WWII period is still under consideration for beatification. There’s an old saying that goes, if you don’t like the way the Catholic Church does something, stick around 500 years…

The current Pope is also of the WWII era.

His parents were very anti-Nazi–his father was demoted at his job because of his stance. The Pope was required to join the Nazi Youth and he later served in the German military (army, I think). He deserted toward the end of the war, and was later capture by the Americans and was a prisoner of war for a while.

Imagine if the Americans treated their prisoners of war like the Germans and Japanese did. Would he have lived?

Seems pretty convincing evidence for not killing (either outright or causing death by torture and starvation) prisoners of war.

Even though some don’t like it, I’m amazed that other Christians no absolutely nothing about what their churches did and said about the Nazis during WWII. They criticize the CC for everything it has ever done or not done from the time of Christ Some events that are talked about — 4th century -accused of paganizing Christianity – Several times in the past CC criticized for the inquisitions — 16th century CC criticized for treatment of Native Americans in the Southwest USA and Canada — 19th century CC criticized for defining papal infallibility — 20th century CC criticized for not doing and saying enough to fight the Nazis – 21st century CC criticized for the handling of the priest sex scandal.

They know all this about the CC, but they no nothing about what their own church did during WWII. (I’m not supposed to find that amazing?) And all because it’s “ancient” history? Well, they blasted the CC (I did, too.) for how the CC handled the priest sex scandal, but they had no idea that the same kind of thing was going on in their own churches and that it was actually more pervasive there! They know nothing about their own churches!

If they’re not amazed when they realize that they can’t answer a simple question about their church’s actions a mere 60 years ago, I supposed that I should assume that this ignorance of their own churches is a matter of course in non-Catholic Christian circles.

 

[SonofMonica]

kalt, I would say that some of it stems from the fact that most protestant churches that are even capable of issuing a formal statement (i.e., they have someone on Earth that speaks for them, officially), are still comparatively irrelevant on a global scale. Why would anyone in Europe be influenced by what Presbyterian Church (USA), for example, has to say about anything? I’m not saying that we should take sinful pride in the fact that we are the global universal church and snub our noses at folks, but simply trying to provide some perspective on why a particular protestant organization may not have had a “dog in the fight,” so to speak…

 

[GKC]

The current Pope is also of the WWII era.

His parents were very anti-Nazi–his father was demoted at his job because of his stance. The Pope was required to join the Nazi Youth and he later served in the German military (army, I think). He deserted toward the end of the war, and was later capture by the Americans and was a prisoner of war for a while.

Imagine if the Americans treated their prisoners of war like the Germans and Japanese did. Would he have lived?

Seems pretty convincing evidence for not killing (either outright or causing death by torture and starvation) prisoners of war.

Even though some don’t like it, I’m amazed that other Christians no absolutely nothing about what their churches did and said about the Nazis during WWII. They criticize the CC for everything it has ever done or not done from the time of Christ Some events that are talked about — 4th century -accused of paganizing Christianity – Several times in the past CC criticized for the inquisitions — 16th century CC criticized for treatment of Native Americans in the Southwest USA and Canada — 19th century CC criticized for defining papal infallibility — 20th century CC criticized for not doing and saying enough to fight the Nazis – 21st century CC criticized for the handling of the priest sex scandal.

They know all this about the CC, but they no nothing about what their own church did during WWII. (I’m not supposed to find that amazing?) And all because it’s “ancient” history? Well, they blasted the CC (I did, too.) for how the CC handled the priest sex scandal, but they had no idea that the same kind of thing was going on in their own churches and that it was actually more pervasive there! They know nothing about their own churches!

If they’re not amazed when they realize that they can’t answer a simple question about their church’s actions a mere 60 years ago, I supposed that I should assume that this ignorance of their own churches is a matter of course in non-Catholic Christian circles.

This is not a subject I am historically well-versed in. And my books on the Holocaust only touch on the idea briefly. OTOH, have you stumbled onto this?

adl.org/Braun/dim_14_1_role_church.asp

It might suggest some areas of further inquiry, esp. the portion labelled

" Christian Opposition to the Hitler Regime Outside of Germany". It is suggestive, at least. The author’s book For the Soul of the People: Protestant Protest Against Hitler and Bystanders: Conscience and Complicity in the Holocaust might be useful.

GKC

 

[Kaninchen]

The only Churches the NSDAP would have taken seriously would have been the Lutherans and Catholics, everybody else would have been incidental (few would have noticed ‘Nacht und Nebel’ (‘night and fog’) arrests of members of minority sects). Arrests of a small number of Christian anti-NSDAP dissidents would have been far outweighed by the very large numbers of ‘Kirchenaustritt’ (people who left the Christian Churches).

 

[Anna_Scott]

**Kalt:

Great resource: The Jewish Virtual Library **
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/holo.html
Copyright American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise, Reprinted with permission.

1933 April 11
The German government begins employment and economic sanctions against Jews that are widely perceived as being racially based. . . .The Lutheran Church opposes the sanctions.

1933
The antisemitic Glaubensbewegung deutscher Christen (Movement of German Christian Believers) becomes the semiofficial religious organization of Germany.

1934 January 24
A Lutheran minister opposed to the Reich Church is beaten by Nazi thugs.

**1934 October 7 **
Jehovah’s Witnesses
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Chronology_1934.html

The Jehovah’s Witnesses in Germany declare their political neutrality. Also affirm defiance of Nazi restrictions on the practice of their religion.
(Sources: Various books and chronologies related to World War II and the Holocaust Memorial Center)

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/jehovah.html
In response to Nazi efforts to destroy them, the worldwide J**ehovah’s Witness organization became a center of spiritual resistance against the Nazis. **

An international convention of Witnesses, held in Lucerne, Switzerland, in September 1936, issued a resolution condemning the entire Nazi regime. In this text and other literature brought into Germany, writers broadly indicted the Third Reich. Articles strongly denounced the persecution of German Jews, Nazi “savagery” toward Communists, the remilitarization of Germany, the Nazification of schools and universities, Nazi propaganda, and the regime’s assault on mainstream churches.
(Source: U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum)

1934
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Chronology_1934.html

**“Twenty-Five Points of the German Religion” **are issued in Germany by Professor Ernst Bergmann. It holds that Christ was not a Jew but a Nordic warrior put to death by Jews, and whose death spared the world from Jewish domination; Adolf Hitler is the new messiah sent to Earth to save the world from Jews.
(Sources: Various books and chronologies related to World War II and the Holocaust Memorial Center)

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0004_0_04290.html
CHRISTIAN SOCIAL PARTY, GERMAN (Christlichsoziale Partei), originally the Christian Social Workers’ Party, Christlichsoziale Arbeiterpartei, founded in Berlin in 1878 by the court preacherA. *Stoecker . Based “on Christian beliefs and the love of king and country,” it rejected social democracy as “unchristian and unpatriotic” and aimed at “narrowing the abyss between rich and poor.”

. . . .Though prone to occasional radical outbursts, this sector of the population was basically loyal to church and state, and, unlike the workers, highly receptive to antisemitism. When Stoecker’s meetings began to attract the lower-middle class rather than the workers, his party became explicitly antisemitic.

He had already made his own views clear in 1878 in the last paragraph of his election manifesto: “We respect the Jews as fellow citizens and honor Judaism as the lower stage of divine revelation, but we firmly believe that no Jew can be a leader of Christian workers in either a religious or an economic capacity.”

Antisemitism rapidly became one of the basic planks of the CSP’s platform and soon paid political dividends. The “respectable” variety of antisemitism adopted by Stoecker paved the way for the racial antisemitism preached by agitators like E. Henrici andT. *Fritsch. Towards the end of the 19 th century the CSP lost much of its support and in 1917 merged with the Conservatives and the Deutsch-voelkische Partei to form the right-wing DNVP (Deutsch-Nationale Volkspartei).
(Source: Encyclopaedia Judaica. © 2008 The Gale Group. All Rights Reserved.)

**1935 August 25 **
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Chronology_1935.html
Pastor Martin Niemöller, the leading Protestant anti-Nazi, sermonizes that Jewish history is “dark and sinister” and that the Jewish people are forever “under a curse“ because they not only “brought the Christ of God to the cross” but they also bear the responsibility for the “blood of all the righteous men who were ever murdered.”
(Sources: Various books and chronologies related to World War II and the Holocaust Memorial Center.)

Martin Niemoeller was a Protestant pastor born January 14, 1892, in Lippstadt, Westphalia. He was a submarine commander in World War I. He was anti-communist and initially supported the Nazis until the church was made subordinate to state authority.

In 1934, he started the Pastors’ Emergency League to defend the church. Hitler became angered by Niemoeller’s rebellious sermons and popularity and had him arrested on July 1, 1937. He was tried the following year and sentenced to seven months in prison and fined.

After his release, Hitler ordered him arrested again. he spent the next seven years in concentration camps in “protective custody.“ He was liberated in 1945 and was elected President of the Protestant church in Hesse and Nassau in 1947. He held the title until 1964. **He was also a President of the World Council of Churches in the 1960’s. **
Niemoeller was a pacifist who spoke out against nuclear weapons.

He is best known for his powerful statement about the failure of Germans to speak out against the Nazis:

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”
He died in Wiesbaden on March 6, 1984.
Source: Wistrich, Robert S. Who’s Who in Nazi Germany. NY: Routledge Press, 1995.

**1935 November 15 **
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Chronology_1935.html
The German Churches begin to collaborate with the Nazis by supplying records to the government indicating who is a Christian and who is not; that is, who is a Jew.
(Sources: Various books and chronologies related to World War II and the Holocaust Memorial Center.)

More on next Post.
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

I’m interested in what the Protestant Church (really all non-Catholic Christian churches) did or said during the Holocaust.

1935
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/Chronology_1935.html
The German government permits the publication of Martin Luther’s On the Jews and Their Lies, in which Luther advocates a program to arrest Jews, expropriate them, force them into the kind of labor the government determines, and, finally, to exile or murder them.

Martin Luther: The Jews and Their Lies (1543)
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html

(Copyright American-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise, Reprinted with permission.)

Hitler quoted Martin Luther’s On the Jews and Their Lies in Mein Kampf.

Anna

 

[John_Pascendi]

Thats true that FDR was silent on the holocaust because he had only a 12 million member army,navy and airforce…also he was seperated by two small oceans from Europe…the Vatican spoke out some 40 times from 1939 to 1945…I have the list of NYTImes articles,if anyone would like a list or do as I did…spend a day in the library going over TImes articles…remember it was the Nazis and Commies who started WW2 in 1939 when they signed a peace pact together…and as to anti-semitism…Hitler quoted mostly from Karl Marx and his 'On the Jewish question" essay…Pas

 

[puzzleannie]

I was looking for information only. Agenda searching makes one seem a liiitle paranoid.

Thank-you for the links. I’ll check them out. Some of the sources, at first glance, look a little sketchy, but I’ll take a peek.

you don’t have to search with agenda-laden key words, you sound as if you are not willing to take the time to do sound academic research–which can still be done in libraries w/o the internet–and that you don’t know how to go about it if you were interested. You claimed you could find no sources, I showed you that even a quick search turns up dozens of sources, I made no claim at all about the veracity, I merely want to demonstrate the info you want is out there. yet you “might” take a look at them. I am still wondering about your own agenda.

 

[Anna_Scott]

The previous thread went off on a tangent, so I’m posting this again–maybe with a clearer title.

I’m interested in what the Protestant Church (really all non-Catholic Christian churches) did or said during the Holocaust.

If you have any information on what your church did, will you share it here?

you don’t have to search with agenda-laden key words, you sound as if you are not willing to take the time to do sound academic research–which can still be done in libraries w/o the internet–and that you don’t know how to go about it if you were interested. You claimed you could find no sources, I showed you that even a quick search turns up dozens of sources, I made no claim at all about the veracity, I merely want to demonstrate the info you want is out there. yet you “might” take a look at them. I am still wondering about your own agenda.

Why do you question Kalt’s agenda. Many Protestants on these forums are quick to accuse the Catholic Church of shortcomings during the Holocaust.

I think it is very fair to ask what the Protestant Churches did.

Anna

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Many Protestants on these forums are quick to accuse the Catholic Church of shortcomings during the Holocaust.

I think it is very fair to ask what the Protestant Churches did.

Anna

I think theres a big difference between individuals who happen to be protestant, criticising the catholic church, and a church criticising the catholic church.

If the Lutheran Church or the Baptist Church or the Mormon Church has not criticised the catholic church, whats to be gained by comparing what these churchs did and what the catholic church did.

If the catholic church did more or said more, its only right that it should, as it claims to be the one true church founded by Christ.

So what if other churchs didnt do or say as much - these churchs have not formally criticised the actions of the catohlic church have they? Individuals might have, but churchs havent. Or at least no information has been brought up to suggest they have.

So we’re talking about individual criticism here, so again I say so what.

What happened was evil. Many many great people gave their lives up, or risked their lives to save the persecuted at that time, not just the jews.

Many stood by and did nothing.

That applies to people of all religion, and none.

One of my german friends grandparents were taken outside to the top of their street and shot through the head in front of their children and neighbors for harboring jews. To make an example of them and send a warning to othes. Prior to their executation they had been instrumental in rescuing several families in the area by helping them get access to a network which I think was somehow connected to the catholic church if I recall correctly.

They were devout Lutherans.

Max Kolbe lay down his life for another.

The era brought out the best and worst in people.

A who did the most competition doesnt really add anything of any value to any debate.

In my opinion only of course.

Now, if a link can be found where a protestant church roundly condemned the catholic church formally for doing nothing or not enough, then that puts a whole other complexion on the issue here.

Again, only in my opinion.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I think theres a big difference between individuals who happen to be protestant, criticising the catholic church, and a church criticising the catholic church.

If the Lutheran Church or the Baptist Church or the Mormon Church has not criticised the catholic church, whats to be gained by comparing what these churchs did and what the catholic church did.

If the catholic church did more or said more, its only right that it should, as it claims to be the one true church founded by Christ.

So what if other churchs didnt do or say as much - these churchs have not formally criticised the actions of the catohlic church have they? Individuals might have, but churchs havent. Or at least no information has been brought up to suggest they have.

So we’re talking about individual criticism here, so again I say so what.

What happened was evil. Many many great people gave their lives up, or risked their lives to save the persecuted at that time, not just the jews.

Many stood by and did nothing.

That applies to people of all religion, and none.

One of my german friends grandparents were taken outside to the top of their street and shot through the head in front of their children and neighbors for harboring jews. To make an example of them and send a warning to othes. Prior to their executation they had been instrumental in rescuing several families in the area by helping them get access to a network which I think was somehow connected to the catholic church if I recall correctly.

They were devout Lutherans.

Max Kolbe lay down his life for another.

The era brought out the best and worst in people.

A who did the most competition doesnt really add anything of any value to any debate.

In my opinion only of course.

Now, if a link can be found where a protestant church roundly condemned the catholic church formally for doing nothing or not enough, then that puts a whole other complexion on the issue here.

Again, only in my opinion.

I think it is important to know who did what–Not for the purpose of condemning people, but for the purpose of understanding how Christians, Catholic or Protestant, either rose above their circumstances to help the Jewish people or were seduced by Hitler’s message.

It is so very important to understand the past, so that we do not repeat the bad.

Martin Luther’s On the Jews and Their Lies was used by Hitler as one source of justification for his crimes against the Jewish people. Martin Luther would have no way of knowing that long after his death, his own words would be quoted in Hitler’s Mein Kampf.

Yet, Martin Luther’s writing was so filled with hatred for the Jewish people, it was quite suitable material for Hitler.

Martin Luther’s writings affect the way I view him, and his role in the Protestant Reformation. All of Christendom has been grieved by the actions of certain Christians throughout history.

Have to do some errands,
Anna