Protestant Communion?

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Nyika said:
It seems to me from what I have just been reading that both Protestants and Catholics acknowledge Peter as the First Bishop of Rome but whilst Protestants continue to consider all Bishops to be successors of Peter Catholics consider the Pope to be his successor. I find this confusing. Can someone explain please,at what stage Bishop became Pope for the Catholic tradition?
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All links operational

Re: Peter
  • Bk 3 Chapter 3 v 1-3, (~ 180 a.d.) shows
  • Peter in Rome
  • Irenaeus lists succession of bishops from Peter, (12 bishops named down to his day)
  • all the faithful everywhere must agree with Rome on account of its preeminent authority
  • #30 .Jesus acknowledges,Peter is the greatest among the apostles.
  • #34 the Church has been Catholic from the begining. Lots of good internal links
As an aside Re: the ECF’s provided, here’s a description of 3 ECF’s named from the 1st and 2nd century by their own hand.
 
In_His_Grace said:
Yes, the truth that the Catholic Church is not the “one true church” established by Jesus Christ. I understand that you believe this to be true with all of your heart, but at the end of the day this is really a matter of faith on your part. Also, good luck proving what you believe to be true from Holy Writ or history.

CCC
811 "This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic."256 These four characteristics, inseparably linked with each other,257 indicate essential features of the Church and her mission. The Church does not possess them of herself; it is Christ who, through the Holy Spirit, makes his Church one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, and it is he who calls her to realize each of these qualities.

812 Only faith can recognize that the Church possesses these properties from her divine source. But their historical manifestations are signs that also speak clearly to human reason. As the First Vatican Council noted, the "Church herself, with her marvelous propagation, eminent holiness, and inexhaustible fruitfulness in everything good, her catholic unity and invincible stability, is a great and perpetual motive of credibility and an irrefutable witness of her divine mission."258

Like I said in an earlier post, I’ll sleep like a baby tonight.
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I’m not seeing your point. :confused:

The Catholic Church is a cinch to defend and prove from scripture & tradition #34 & #30

You’re Lutheran. The CCC quotes that you use, describes the Catholic Church.

Applying to you the same standards you apply to me,

We know up front with no difficulty at all, the following
  • Your founder was the heretic, excommunicated Catholic monk Martin Luther, in the 16th century
  • you’re the oldest of the Protestant denominations
 
steve_b said:
I’m not seeing your point. :confused:

The Catholic Church is a cinch to defend and prove from scripture & tradition #34 & #30

You’re Lutheran. The CCC quotes that you use, describes the Catholic Church.

Applying to you the same standards you apply to me,

We know up front with no difficulty at all, the following
  • Your founder was the heretic, excommunicated Catholic monk Martin Luther, in the 16th century
  • you’re the oldest of the Protestant denominations
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Possibly the reason you don’t understand what I am trying to say, the point I’m trying to make, is because you are a cradle Catholic? I suspect some of the Catholic converts understand exactly where I’m coming from? Anyway, I’ll read the links you posted tomorrow and thank you.
 
Michael68 said:
Protestant—Non Catholic

Most if not all protestants think communion is just a symbol when clearly it is not
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Perhaps you might mean to be a bit more accurate.

There are many Christians who are non-Catholic and not Protestant. The Orthodox, Anglicans, LDS, Mennonites, Old Catholics, etc. The list goes on.

And certainly not all non-Catholics think communion is ‘just a symbol’. If you read through the posts here on this forum, you’ll see quickly that is the case. And just out of curiosity, how did you come to use the phrase ‘clearly it (communion) is not’. Clearly? If anything, the eucharist is a great Mystery, don’t you think? The Holy Mysteries is what many of us call it.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Perhaps you might mean to be a bit more accurate.

There are many Christians who are non-Catholic and not Protestant. The Orthodox, Anglicans, LDS, Mennonites, Old Catholics, etc. The list goes on.

And certainly not all non-Catholics think communion is ‘just a symbol’. If you read through the posts here on this forum, you’ll see quickly that is the case. And just out of curiosity, how did you come to use the phrase ‘clearly it (communion) is not’. Clearly? If anything, the eucharist is a great Mystery, don’t you think? The Holy Mysteries is what many of us call it.
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I was just saying its not a symbol. Yes, I agree its a mystery. The protestants i come into contact with think its just a symbol. Maybe it was a little harsh to say all protestants
 
Michael68 said:
I was just saying its not a symbol. Yes, I agree its a mystery. The protestants i come into contact with think its just a symbol. Maybe it was a little harsh to say all protestants
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There are so many branches to the Church and variations of beliefs and traditions that it’s good to qualify who you are speaking of. An evangelical Protestant is not going practice the faith nor believe the same things as a High Church Anglican. I find that it’s good to say, ‘My experience is … this…’ Or with a specific person who believes this or that.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
There are so many branches to the Church and variations of beliefs and traditions that it’s good to qualify who you are speaking of. An evangelical Protestant is not going practice the faith nor believe the same things as a High Church Anglican. I find that it’s good to say, ‘My experience is … this…’ Or with a specific person who believes this or that.
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Thank you! I will take that into consideration as I post 🙂
 
In_His_Grace said:
Possibly the reason you don’t understand what I am trying to say, the point I’m trying to make, is because you are a cradle Catholic? I suspect some of the Catholic converts understand exactly where I’m coming from? Anyway, I’ll read the links you posted tomorrow and thank you.
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In his Grace,
Speaking of Protestant Communion:
Can you as a LCMS Lutheran Commune in a Lutheran Church of another synod such as WELS and ELCA?

It was my understanding there was no altar and pulpit fellowship between these synods. Therefore while you may be welcome to Commune in the ELCA Church they would not be welcome to Commune in yours albeit the churches are both Lutheran in name.

Mary.
 
Michael68 said:
Protestant—Non Catholic

Most if not all protestants think communion is just a symbol when clearly it is not
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If by Catholic you mean the RCC, trying telling an Eastern Orthodox member that he is protestant. The RCC spawned protestantism. Timothy Ware once wrote that the Orthodox see Roman Catholicism and Protestanism as two sides of the same coin.
 
eamonnroma said:
If by Catholic you mean the RCC, trying telling an Eastern Orthodox member that he is protestant. The RCC spawned protestantism. Timothy Ware once wrote that the Orthodox see Roman Catholicism and Protestanism as two sides of the same coin.
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I get it, I made a mistake
 
KjetilK said:
Protesting what? Is the Roman Catholic Church in the US protestant for protesting the HHS Mandate?
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Henry V111 protested against the Pope Clement V11 for refusing to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon the first of his 8 wives. He wanted a male heir and Catherine didn’t provide him with one. Although he was excommunicated from the Catholic church his religion became a baffling mixture of inherited Catholicism and whatever suited him. Under Cromwell Henry V111 became the Supreme head on earth of the Church of England. The monasteries were destroyed. The start of the Reformation.
 
steve_b said:
All links operational

Re: Peter
  • Bk 3 Chapter 3 v 1-3, (~ 180 a.d.) shows
  • Peter in Rome
  • Irenaeus lists succession of bishops from Peter, (12 bishops named down to his day)
  • all the faithful everywhere must agree with Rome on account of its preeminent authority
  • #30 .Jesus acknowledges,Peter is the greatest among the apostles.
  • #34 the Church has been Catholic from the begining. Lots of good internal links
As an aside Re: the ECF’s provided, here’s a description of 3 ECF’s named from the 1st and 2nd century by their own hand.
Click to expand...
 
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Nyika:
Dear Steveb
Thank you for your extremely illuminating and interesting post including biblical references etc…

I’ve had an eureka moment as a result!
As follows:

Although both Anglicans and Catholics acknowledge that all Bishops are successors of St Peter. Unlike the Pope being the chief Bishop of Rome and Supreme head of the Catholic Church
the Archbishop of Canterbury who is the chief Bishop of the Church of England is not the Supreme head of the Church of England The Queen or King of England is!!
Very interesting!
 
Nyika said:
Henry V111 protested against the Pope Clement V11 for refusing to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon the first of his 8 wives. He wanted a male heir and Catherine didn’t provide him with one. Although he was excommunicated from the Catholic church his religion became a baffling mixture of inherited Catholicism and whatever suited him. Under Cromwell Henry V111 became the Supreme head on earth of the Church of England. The monasteries were destroyed. The start of the Reformation.
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You’ve already said that. What I asked is this: “Is the Roman Catholic Church in the US protestant for protesting the HHS Mandate?”
 
MaryT777 said:
In his Grace,
Speaking of Protestant Communion:
Can you as a LCMS Lutheran Commune in a Lutheran Church of another synod such as WELS and ELCA?
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No, only with those in full altar and pulpit fellowship with LCMS. I’ve read this isn’t always strictly and universally enforced in all LCMS churches but that is the official LCMS position and policy. LCMS has full altar and pulpit fellowship with 36 other church bodies throughout the world.
It was my understanding there was no altar and pulpit fellowship between these synods. Therefore while you may be welcome to Commune in the ELCA Church they would not be welcome to Commune in yours albeit the churches are both Lutheran in name.
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Mary.
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Correct.

P.S. I am a newbie Lutheran so if I am in error hopefully one of the more knowledgable senior Lutherans here will correct me.
 
Nyika said:
Dear Steveb
Thank you for your extremely illuminating and interesting post including biblical references etc…

I’ve had an eureka moment as a result!
As follows:

Although both Anglicans and Catholics acknowledge that all Bishops are successors of St Peter. Unlike the Pope being the chief Bishop of Rome and Supreme head of the Catholic Church
the Archbishop of Canterbury who is the chief Bishop of the Church of England is not the Supreme head of the Church of England The Queen or King of England is!!
Very interesting!
Click to expand...
No, it was Henry who was declared by Parliament to be the Supreme Head of the Church of England (1534). That was changed in 1559, to the Supreme Governor, and that’s been the reigning monarch’s title since.
 
Nyika said:
Henry V111 protested against the Pope Clement V11 for refusing to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon the first of his 8 wives. He wanted a male heir and Catherine didn’t provide him with one. Although he was excommunicated from the Catholic church his religion became a baffling mixture of inherited Catholicism and whatever suited him. Under Cromwell Henry V111 became the Supreme head on earth of the Church of England. The monasteries were destroyed. The start of the Reformation.
Click to expand...
Six wives.

I’d account Luther more the starting point.
 
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