Protestant Communion?

[steve_b]

And I have shown you that according to Dominus Iesus and Communionis notio, they are.

Re: Communionis notio

You quoted what’s in blue but the underlined text above it, say they are not-Catholic.

ECCLESIAL COMMUNION AND ECUMENISM
17. “The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honoured by the name of Christian, but who do not however profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter”(72). Among the non-Catholic Churches and Christian communities, there are indeed to be found many elements of the Church of Christ, which allow us, amid joy and hope, to acknowledge the existence of a certain communion, albeit imperfect(73).

This communion exists especially with the Eastern orthodox Churches, which, though separated from the See of Peter, remain united to the Catholic Church by means of very close bonds, such as the apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist, and therefore merit the title of particular Churches(74). Indeed, “through the celebration of the Eucharist of the Lord in each of these Churches, the Church of God is built up and grows in stature”(75), for in every valid celebration of the Eucharist the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church becomes truly present(76).

 

[KathleenGee]

In the meantime, Middle East Christians are banned from America…hope the pope addresses their plight to Congress.

And many unsavory characters, abuse directed towards Christian refugees, and well dressed’ merging with entire refugee population into Europe…and wonder how this will affect people who prefer to be separated from full communion.

I believe some day the Church will return to one shepherd, one flock but at what price?

 

[IGotQuestions]

:banghead:

Your views are very radical compared to other Catholics and non-Catholics, who have been very helpful in this thread.

 

[Thorolfr]

I believe some day the Church will return to one shepherd, one flock but at what price?

I hope so, too, and that everyone will be under one bishop, the Presiding Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

 

[benjohnson]

I hope so, too, and that everyone will be under one bishop, the Presiding Bishop of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.

http://mci.archpitt.org/legacy/images/music/Presanctified/Lenten_Lord_have_mercy_1.GIF

 

[Thorolfr]

http://mci.archpitt.org/legacy/images/music/Presanctified/Lenten_Lord_have_mercy_1.GIF

I’m learning all sorts of new lessons from Catholics in this forum and I’m starting to believe in the supremacy of one bishop, too, my ELCA bishop.

 

[benjohnson]

I’m starting to believe in the supremacy of one bishop

I’m torn between saying “There can be only one” and “Two men enter, one man leaves”

 

[acseawell]

I think that there are lots of different views. Most Lutherans I think believe in the Real Presence just like Catholics although they disagree with the Catholic Church over exactly how the body and blood are present. For some Protestants, especially Baptists, communion is purely memorial and is not a sacrament. As it says in Wikipedia, “Most Baptists do not consider the Communion or its elements to be sacramental; rather, it is considered to be an act of remembrance of Christ’s atonement, and a time of renewal of personal commitment.” So in this case, communion is purely memorial.

But even among Baptists, for example, there are some (including some Southern Baptists) who follow the Second London Baptist Confession of 1689 which is closer to Reformed churches such as Presbyterians in believing in some kind of spiritual presence. According to this confession:

Nearly all the Non-Catholic sects believe Jesus is in, around, etc. of the host. However, only the Church Jesus founded knows that the Host, after consecration, becomes the Body of Christ, as Jesus told the apostles. This Church is the Roman Catholic Church.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist

 

[Starwarsfan2]

As I already told and proved to you, the Orthodox are not Catholic.

Actually, they are Catholic , just Orthodox Catholic .

 

[steve_b]

Actually, they are Catholic , just Orthodox Catholic .

Who teaches you that stuff?

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Who teaches you that stuff?

Well , they are the Orthodox Catholic Church

 

[steve_b]

Well , they are the Orthodox Catholic Church

Find for me please, the 1st time Orthodox Church appeared in history, in writing.
valid references please

Then find Orthodox Catholic Church, again valid references

Here is the Catholic Church. A snapshot of the 1st 400 years. #34

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Find for me please, the 1st time Orthodox Church appeared in history, in writing.
valid references please

Then find Orthodox Catholic Church, again valid references

Here is the Catholic Church. A snapshot of the 1st 400 years. #34

Yes there is the Catholic Church , which split into the Roman and Orthodox Catholic Churches , each claiming to be the real one .

 

[pablope]

Yes there is the Catholic Church , which split into the Roman and Orthodox Catholic Churches , each claiming to be the real one .

So which do you think is the real one?

 

[KjetilK]

So which do you think is the real one?

Both, since catholicity is defined by having apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist.

Don’t you agree that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church becomes truly present in every valid celebration of the Eucharist?

 

[steve_b]

Yes there is the Catholic Church , which split into the Roman and Orthodox Catholic Churches , each claiming to be the real one .

I asked for valid references properly referenced because when people can’t answer the question being asked they make up stuff.

So where are your references properly referenced?

 

[steve_b]

Both, since catholicity is defined by having apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist.

Don’t you agree that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church becomes truly present in every valid celebration of the Eucharist?

Bp Irenaeus actually gave a great explanation in his work “Against Heresies”. As you know Irenaeus was from Smyrna which is in today Turkey. The same city as Bp Polycarp, who was a direct disciple of John the apostle. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp. They are Catholic bishops

Irenaeus writes

Bk 3 Chapter 3 v 2-3

1. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Churchshould agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, ***inasmuch as the apostolic tradition has been preserved continuously by those ***faithful men] who exist everywhere.
2. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands ofLinus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes

Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus*.** Alexanderfollowed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soterhaving succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius* does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth."

Irenaeus names 12 successors of Peter in Rome, down to his day. And note it is apostolic tradition (from Peter & Paul) that ever Church agree with THIS Church (the Church of Rome) on account of it’s preeminent authority.

So much for the argument often heard by those outside the Church, that the papacy was a later invention.

 

[steve_b]

Both, since catholicity is defined by having apostolic succession and a valid Eucharist.

Don’t you agree that the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church becomes truly present in every valid celebration of the Eucharist?

As I responded here #489 there is more to that quote
for in every valid celebration of the Eucharist the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church becomes truly present(76).

**

 

[Porknpie]

Well , they are the Orthodox Catholic Church

If a visitor comes to town and asks “where is the local Catholic Church?”, one does not send them to the Orthodox Church. Rather, they are sent to the local Catholic Church.

Frankly, I believe many an Orthodox would find this description of them offensive: “Orthodox Catholic”

 

[Thorolfr]

Frankly, I believe many an Orthodox would find this description of them offensive: “Orthodox Catholic”

I guess that the ones who would be offended would have to take it up with their Orthodox brethren who use this term.

The Orthodox-Catholic Church of America (OCCA) is an independent and self-governing Orthodox jurisdiction based in the United States, with clergy also in Mexico. As of July 2010, the denomination’s online directory listed 27 affiliated parishes or missions, and two religious communities.[1] The OCCA is not associated with any mainstream Orthodox church.

The denomination is governed by a synod of diocesan bishops (currently seven) and a metropolitan archbishop. The current metropolitan is Robert Zahrt, known as Archbishop Peter. The ecclesial purpose of the OCCA is the worship of God in the Holy Trinity; the proclamation and continuing of the Orthodox faith as taught in holy scripture, the apostolic tradition and the seven ecumenical councils of the undivided and ancient Church of Christ. The OCCA is one of a number of churches seeking to blend Orthodoxy in an American setting. Its worship and beliefs are influenced by eastern and western and western orthodox traditions, and considers itself to be one “self-governing” church out of many in the Orthodox tradition.[2] The OCCA is a standing member of the International Council of Community Churches (ICCC).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodox-Catholic_Church_of_America

Here’s an explanation of the name:

Name

In May 1891, Bishop Vladimir (Sokolovsky), the head of the Russian Orthodox Church in the United States, referred to Fr. Vilatte’s flock as “true Old Catholic-Orthodox Christians [now] under the patronage of our Church.”[8] This concept that the church was truly both Old Catholic (Western) and Orthodox was translated by this jurisdiction into the name “Orthodox-Catholic”. The concept is that of a church with Western liturgy and Eastern (Orthodox) spirituality and theology.