Protestant Communion

[VociMike]

…or you have intermediate understandings as expressed by the Lutherans and some Anglicans, i.e., the Real Presence but not transubstantion. There is also the Calvinist understanding of a spiritual presence. So, there are some “touchstones” between the extremes of the “gulf” that you mentioned.

Yes, but in every case the actual food and drink is, objectively, not worthy of a memorial meal for Christ Himself. That is the point I am offering for discussion. The fact that Christ may be present in some fashion is another point entirely, since Christ is always present at any Christian worship.

I wonder, does any other religion, now or in the past, offer a less worthy meal as part of its worship? Religions typically offer their best, even when the people are poor, but the Protestant Lord’s Supper offers only a few pennies of bread and juice – far less than the worshippers will spend for their own meals later in the day. Don’t Protestants ever wonder about this discrepancy?

 

[rr1213]

Religions typically offer their best, even when the people are poor, but the Protestant Lord’s Supper offers only a few pennies of bread and juice – far less than the worshippers will spend for their own meals later in the day. Don’t Protestants ever wonder about this discrepancy?

Honestly? I doubt that many Protestants see this as a discrepancy, so the answer to your question would almost certainly be “no”.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Yes, but in every case the actual food and drink is, objectively, not worthy of a memorial meal for Christ Himself. That is the point I am offering for discussion. The fact that Christ may be present in some fashion is another point entirely, since Christ is always present at any Christian worship.

I wonder, does any other religion, now or in the past, offer a less worthy meal as part of its worship? Religions typically offer their best, even when the people are poor, but the Protestant Lord’s Supper offers only a few pennies of bread and juice – far less than the worshippers will spend for their own meals later in the day. Don’t Protestants ever wonder about this discrepancy?

Hi,
I think this would be putting far too much emphasis on monetary worth of how much you spend on the bread and wine/juice your church uses. God does not care about money or how much you paid for the bread and wine/juice. He owns all the money in the world anyway. I also dont think he cares whether or not you buy the best and most expensive wine or grape juice. We use grape juice because it is still considered the fruit of the vine just not fermented into wine yet. We use unleavend bread–matza. I think the objects are not the point. The point is what communion means. We obviosly disagree on that point. I do believe God is present at all of our services but more important ,to me anyway. is that God knows every thing about my life(well actually that is scary if you think about it )I have an intimate relationship with Him that is growing everyday and will continue to grow until I meet Jesus face to face. I do not need to ingest Jesus to have that close relationship. I have heard catholics here say how much more personal can you get then (how do you guys put it)holding Jesus in your hand and having Him in your body.(correct me if Im wrong) Well I say, much more personal… I have Jesus(via the Holy Spirit,in me until the day of redemption. I have Him inside me 24/7 and can call on Him whenever I want(which should be all the time ) I think that is as personal as one can get.
I dont know if I addressed your question. I got a little passionate there. But I think the other posters answered it anyway. Thanks guys:thumbsup:

 

[Damascus]

That is how deep southeners pronouce the word Lord, Lard like pork fat.

**That is such a poor witness of Jesus Christ! I am amazed and very hurt for my sisters and brothers in the south! Why is this appropriate in a disscusion about communion? **

This part of the board is for questions from Protestants, Jews, Muslims to ask questions about the Catholic faith. It does not exist for anti Catholic Protestants to have a place to “correct” Catholics in their beleifs.

**Oh I beg to differ with you sir. Many other faith groups are here and I am amazed that you cant simply make a case without personal attacks. This is something many non catholics will see, and as a result may not want to venture into the other sections of the forum as a result. How can we expect them to if they are told they are not welcome?

**And no what you are doing is sqautting, laying around and on your “mourners benches”, kneeling, real kneeling is a erect vertical posture, the head remains stright upright.

And real Pharisees thought the letter of the law was above showing love.
How is this helping him?

 

[Damascus]

It seems very odd for southern people to complain about other being bigots, when it is the southerns who are themselves infamous for being bigots themselves.

You dont think they have a right to speak? All southerners think alike? Hmmmm

After all it was the southerners themselves who became the solid REPUBLICAN South or at least the white ones, when the Republicans turned out to oppose the civil rights acts. It was southern republicans who aired tv commercials in I beleive Tennesee or Kentucky that had a blond bombshell making suggestive talk to the Democratic candidate Mr Ford, “give me a call Mr Ford” nudge nudge wink wink.

Why is this in this thread???
You can tell which people live in which neighborhoods by the way they vote. White people vote Republican like %95 or the time, and black people vote Democratic about %95 of the time.

****

I cant believe I am reading this!! This is a “name it claim it” fallacy!
Cite your allegations sir. ****

Why is a Catholic not looking at all of Gods creation as equal? Why “white” and “black” on a catholic forum???

So save your false accusations of bigotry, for other people who aren’t bigoted themselves.

WHAT? SAY AGAIN?

 

[boppysbud]

Can you say “sweeping generalization,” boys and girls?

No It is no sweeping generalsation when White Southerners voted %89 Republican in the last election, black southeners voted only %14 Republican in the last election.

There accurate statistics have not changed since the Republicans came out as being opposed to the civil rights act in 1964.

Funny noone here, mentions or even perhaps rememebers the reason the solid south became the solid Republican south, they were trying to keep “blacky”, “in his place”. That is fact, just like the fact that the voter’s registration office in Montgomery Alabama was only open one afternoon a month, any black people who showed up and tried to register was arrested, no generalisation just uncomfortable fact.

In the last election the solid republican south was the only part of the United States to stick with facist nazis Republicans, and even then they were not solid south for once, Virginia elected a Democrat Senator.

 

[lak611]

Funny noone here, mentions or even perhaps rememebers the reason the solid south became the solid Republican south, they were trying to keep “blacky”, “in his place”. That is fact, just like the fact that the voter’s registration office in Montgomery Alabama was only open one afternoon a month, any black people who showed up and tried to register was arrested, no generalisation just uncomfortable fact.

In the last election the solid republican south was the only part of the United States to stick with facist nazis Republicans, and even then they were not solid south for once, Virginia elected a Democrat Senator.

You are being racist in your comments. All Republicans are not fascist. Many white Southerners, including white Republicans, love people of ALL races.

There are black Republicans and black conservatives. Have you ever heard of Alan Keyes?

This thread was supposed to be about PROTESTANT COMMUNION, not about belittling people because of their race, nationality, state they reside in, or religious practices. The rules of this forum state that we are to DISCUSS issues/practices with people of different faiths, NOT ever to make fun of their religion. :bigyikes: :crying: :banghead: Please be more charitable.

 

[boppysbud]

Why has my last post here dissapered into thin air?

 

[boppysbud]

You are being racist in your comments. All Republicans are not fascist. Many white Southerners, including white Republicans, love people of ALL races.

There are black Republicans and black conservatives. Have you ever heard of Alan Keyes?

This thread was supposed to be about PROTESTANT COMMUNION, not about belittling people because of their race, nationality, state they reside in, or religious practices. The rules of this forum state that we are to DISCUSS issues/practices with people of different faiths, NOT ever to make fun of their religion. :bigyikes: :crying: :banghead: Please be more charitable.

I am being racist in MY comments? But not the southern republicans who turned into the solid Republican South specifically because the Republican Party OPPOSED THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, DID YOU GET THAT. It is funny how everyone here seems to ignore that fact, so I will repeat it for emphasis. The south became the solid Republican south, BECUASE THEY (not me) opposed the civil rights act, got it now? That is a historical fact no matter how often or how hard you ignore it, it just won’t go away.
It seems odd to me how I an honest LIBERAL who is not ashamed to be a liberal is plead to be charitable. The radical right facists here can be just as mean as they want. It is only a liberal who has to be charitable.

 

[lak611]

I am being racist in MY comments? But not the southern republicans who turned into the solid Republican South specifically because the Republican Party OPPOSED THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, DID YOU GET THAT. It is funny how everyone here seems to ignore that fact, so I will repeat it for emphasis. The south became the solid Republican south, BECUASE THEY (not me) opposed the civil rights act, got it now? That is a historical fact no matter how often or how hard you ignore it, it just won’t go away.
It seems odd to me how I an honest LIBERAL who is not ashamed to be a liberal is plead to be charitable. The radical right facists here can be just as mean as they want. It is only a liberal who has to be charitable.

I am not racist or fascist. And I am not being mean to people by making fun of their race, religion, church practices, or where they happen to live!

 

[rr1213]

I am being racist in MY comments? But not the southern republicans who turned into the solid Republican South specifically because the Republican Party OPPOSED THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, DID YOU GET THAT. It is funny how everyone here seems to ignore that fact, so I will repeat it for emphasis. The south became the solid Republican south, BECUASE THEY (not me) opposed the civil rights act, got it now? That is a historical fact no matter how often or how hard you ignore it, it just won’t go away.
It seems odd to me how I an honest LIBERAL who is not ashamed to be a liberal is plead to be charitable. The radical right facists here can be just as mean as they want. It is only a liberal who has to be charitable.

The Solid South was a solid Democratic South, a solid Democratic Jim Crow Law South, long before it was a solid Republican south. Srom Thurmond and George Wallace didn’t start out as Republicans…

 

[rr1213]

Why has my last post here dissapered into thin air?

Was it offensive?

 

[sandmountainsli]

I am being racist in MY comments? But not the southern republicans who turned into the solid Republican South specifically because the Republican Party OPPOSED THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, DID YOU GET THAT.

You really need to study history a little more!
While I am not a member nor supporter of the GOP, if you research you will find it was the GOP which passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964! Not the Dems!
It was Democrats like Albert Gore Jr and Robert Byrd who raised a stink against Johnson and the GOP came to the rescue of the bill.
I know you will not believe this because you are obviously a drinker of the Howard Dean Kool-Aid but it is a fact.
WP

 

[FromTheCrossroa]

I am being racist in MY comments? But not the southern republicans who turned into the solid Republican South specifically because the Republican Party OPPOSED THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT, DID YOU GET THAT. It is funny how everyone here seems to ignore that fact, so I will repeat it for emphasis. The south became the solid Republican south, BECUASE THEY (not me) opposed the civil rights act, got it now? That is a historical fact no matter how often or how hard you ignore it, it just won’t go away.
It seems odd to me how I an honest LIBERAL who is not ashamed to be a liberal is plead to be charitable. The radical right facists here can be just as mean as they want. It is only a liberal who has to be charitable.

Let me guess…howard dean/al gore coolaid drinker. I’m afraid you don’t understand history or you would not make such foolish statements. It took a majority of republican and democrat’s to pass the civil rights act of 1964. The act would have failed passage if it went on a straight party line vote. With northern republicans and democrats voting the right way, we got rid of the Jim Crow laws that a democratically controlled congress passed in the 1890’s. Also it should be noted that Woodrow Wilson (D) extended Jim Crow to into federal law. Kennedy himself never tried to get the legislation going until months before his death. Although he personally believed it was right, he was also fearful of losing the heavily democratic southern states. Democrats aren’t historically the good guys and republicans arent the bad guys. The republican party was born of anti-slavery democrats and whig’s. May I suggest putting down the confederate flag and read a educate yourself on the subject

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

 

[VociMike]

Hi,
I think this would be putting far too much emphasis on monetary worth of how much you spend on the bread and wine/juice your church uses. God does not care about money or how much you paid for the bread and wine/juice. He owns all the money in the world anyway. I also dont think he cares whether or not you buy the best and most expensive wine or grape juice. We use grape juice because it is still considered the fruit of the vine just not fermented into wine yet. We use unleavend bread–matza. I think the objects are not the point. The point is what communion means. We obviosly disagree on that point. I do believe God is present at all of our services but more important ,to me anyway. is that God knows every thing about my life(well actually that is scary if you think about it )I have an intimate relationship with Him that is growing everyday and will continue to grow until I meet Jesus face to face. I do not need to ingest Jesus to have that close relationship. I have heard catholics here say how much more personal can you get then (how do you guys put it)holding Jesus in your hand and having Him in your body.(correct me if Im wrong) Well I say, much more personal… I have Jesus(via the Holy Spirit,in me until the day of redemption. I have Him inside me 24/7 and can call on Him whenever I want(which should be all the time ) I think that is as personal as one can get.
I dont know if I addressed your question. I got a little passionate there. But I think the other posters answered it anyway. Thanks guys:thumbsup:

I’d like to pursue this a little further, OK? If you were holding a memorial meal for e.g. your father or mother or brother or sister, and you were inviting all those who loved that person most, would you serve them just a cracker and a small sip of juice? Why or why not?

If the answer is no, why is it appropriate to serve such food and drink at a memorial meal for the Son of God?

What if the gospels had not told us what food and drink was served at the Last Supper? What if the choice of food and drink were left up to each pastor throughout the history of the Church? Do you think in that case that these meals would consist of crackers and juice?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

I can’t think of any situation where a priest would be forced to attempt to consecrate the Eucharist before it had been offered at the altar in the normal way.

/QUOTE
Hi,
I asked my FIL on Thanskgiving about this. He is a devout catholic and a Korean Vet. He served on the front lines. He said there were times when the altar was the hood of a jeep. That is all that is out on the front lines. I certainly wouldnt consider this the normal way.
Im just curious if there are any thoughts on this. Do you think this is ok is those circumstances?

 

[ALLFORHIM]

If the answer is no, why is it appropriate to serve such food and drink at a memorial meal for the Son of God?

Simply because that is what Jesus commanded us to do.

What if the gospels had not told us what food and drink was served at the Last Supper? What if the choice of food and drink were left up to each pastor throughout the history of the Church? Do you think in that case that these meals would consist of crackers and juice?

We would probably have a feast because we are a over the top society. Jesus was simple and made it clear we do not need much either. What we need He will supply.

 

[jmcrae]

Simply because that is what Jesus commanded us to do.

Actually, Christ commanded unleavened bread and the wine of Passover.

It was the Methodists who first began substituting crackers and juice - in fact, the Methodists actually developed the Concord grape by mixing a variety of wine grapes, and invented grape juice for that very purpose. Grape juice didn’t exist yet, in the time of Jesus, and nor did Concord grapes, the kind from which we can get grape juice. The grapes of Jesus’ time produced wine; the juice from which the wine was made wasn’t fit for human consumption.

We would probably have a feast because we are a over the top society. Jesus was simple and made it clear we do not need much either. What we need He will supply.

But Jesus lived in an “over the top” society, too - remember the wedding at Cana? Jesus Himself turned hundreds of gallons of water into wine for that wedding - not just a little sip for each guest, but probably a couple of buckets full for each guest.

 

[Damascus]

Actually, Christ commanded unleavened bread and the wine of Passover.

It was the Methodists who first began substituting crackers and juice - in fact, the Methodists actually developed the Concord grape by mixing a variety of wine grapes, and invented grape juice for that very purpose. Grape juice didn’t exist yet, in the time of Jesus, and nor did Concord grapes, the kind from which we can get grape juice. The grapes of Jesus’ time produced wine; the juice from which the wine was made wasn’t fit for human consumption.

But Jesus lived in an “over the top” society, too - remember the wedding at Cana? Jesus Himself turned hundreds of gallons of water into wine for that wedding - not just a little sip for each guest, but probably a couple of buckets full for each guest.

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Actually, Christ commanded unleavened bread and the wine of Passover.

Well we do use unleaven bread. Im not really sure why we dont use wine.

It was the Methodists who first began substituting crackers and juice - in fact, the Methodists actually developed the Concord grape by mixing a variety of wine grapes, and invented grape juice for that very purpose. Grape juice didn’t exist yet, in the time of Jesus, and nor did Concord grapes, the kind from which we can get grape juice. The grapes of Jesus’ time produced wine; the juice from which the wine was made wasn’t fit for human consumption.

Im sure but did He partake of the over the top society? I highly doubt it. Not like we do