Protestant Communion

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Im sure but did He partake of the over the top society? I highly doubt it. Not like we do:eek:
Matthew 11:19 (King James Version)

*The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. *

😉
 
Matthew 11:19 (King James Version)

*The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children. *

😉
Hi,
That verse is a stretch. Those were people (Jews) mocking Him because they wanted to make Him look bad.
 
If the answer is no, why is it appropriate to serve such food and drink at a memorial meal for the Son of God?
But exactly what Jesus commanded us to do is precisely the question! Did Jesus really command us to have a memorial meal with food and drink that would be an insult to any human, and that not one of us would serve in memory of anyone we loved? Or, did He command us to have a memorial meal with a much finer food and drink, the most perfect and exalted in all creation?

A memorial meal serving food and drink not fitting for the lowest human, or a memorial meal serving food and drink truly fitting for God? Which makes more sense? Protestant theology by and large says the former. Catholic and Orthodox theology unequivocally says the latter. Objectively, the latter just makes so much more sense than the former. The latter is so much more fitting to honor and memorialize God.
 
Actually, Christ commanded unleavened bread and the wine of Passover.

It was the Methodists who first began substituting crackers and juice - in fact, the Methodists actually developed the Concord grape by mixing a variety of wine grapes, and invented grape juice for that very purpose. Grape juice didn’t exist yet, in the time of Jesus, and nor did Concord grapes, the kind from which we can get grape juice. The grapes of Jesus’ time produced wine; the juice from which the wine was made wasn’t fit for human consumption.
But Jesus lived in an “over the top” society, too - remember the wedding at Cana? Jesus Himself turned hundreds of gallons of water into wine for that wedding - not just a little sip for each guest, but probably a couple of buckets full for each guest.
👋 The process of pasteurization was not used on grape juice in this country until Prohibition, a process put on the market by the Welch family. Up until that time all Methodist Churches celebrated the Lord’s Supper with wine. That all went with the marketing of the Welch family product. It is not odd that a major bishop at the time of this ruling was a chap named Welch. Bishop Welch…same family…same market. Something underhanded has to be done to wine to prevent it from going it’s God given course 🙂 !
.
 
But exactly what Jesus commanded us to do is precisely the question! Did Jesus really command us to have a memorial meal with food and drink that would be an insult to any human, and that not one of us would serve in memory of anyone we loved? Or, did He command us to have a memorial meal with a much finer food and drink, the most perfect and exalted in all creation?

A memorial meal serving food and drink not fitting for the lowest human, or a memorial meal serving food and drink truly fitting for God? Which makes more sense? Protestant theology by and large says the former. Catholic and Orthodox theology unequivocally says the latter. Objectively, the latter just makes so much more sense than the former. The latter is so much more fitting to honor and memorialize God.
Hi,
Matthew 26:26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
26:27
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.
26:28
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.
26:29
I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father’s kingdom.”
Mark 14: 22-2614:22
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”
14:23
Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.
14:24
**“This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. **14:25
“I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God.”
14:26
When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
Luke 22: 14-2022:14
When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table.
22:15
And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.
22:16
For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”
22:17
After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, “Take this and divide it among you.
22:18
For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.”
22:19
**And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” **22:20
**In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. **
Those passages above do not talk about eating His flesh at all. The wording is different from John and that is probably because John’s passages arent talking about the Last Supper. Jesus was giving a glimpse of what is about to happen and He wants to make sure that they remember it always. I do not see any reference to Him giving the power to the Apostles to change the bread and wine. Honestly, I dont get where the idea of transubstantiation comes from:confused: I know the word is not in the bible but the idea of the power being handed down isnt either.
Of course we know about John 6: 41-71. Interesting that John is not speaking about the passover meal or Last supper at all. If you look at verse 63-- 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.

Every catholic I have read here says that Jesus didnt give an explanation but He did in verse 63 and the disciples got it so Jesus didnt need to explain it any further.
Jesus spoke of bread and wine because us humans can understand that food and drink sustain physical life as Jesus mentioned in earlier passages. So, when He was making the comparison He was pretty much tellinh His disciples they need to believe in Him because He gives us eternal life.
Sorry that was a long post.:o
 
Hi,
That verse is a stretch. Those were people (Jews) mocking Him because they wanted to make Him look bad.
Yes, but it would have been crazy to call him a glutton and a drunkard, if he was continually fasting and walking around in sack-cloth and ashes.

Obviously, he had a reputation as a party animal. (Which the miracle at Cana bears out, as well.)

Otherwise they could not have realistically accused him of gluttony and drunkenness, could they? 😃
 
👋 The process of pasteurization was not used on grape juice in this country until Prohibition, a process put on the market by the Welch family. Up until that time all Methodist Churches celebrated the Lord’s Supper with wine. That all went with the marketing of the Welch family product. It is not odd that a major bishop at the time of this ruling was a chap named Welch. Bishop Welch…same family…same market. Something underhanded has to be done to wine to prevent it from going it’s God given course 🙂 !
.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

I NEVER knew this before! What a scam! Scandalous.:mad:
 
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.
Yes - He was telling them that His body and blood is spiritual food - a Sacrament - not physical food. The elements of the Sacrament - the bread and wine - are signs that become the reality that they represent, in the Consecration.

That’s why only taking a small amount gives us the whole thing. We don’t have to eat a man-sized wafer, or drink the equivalent amount of wine as there are gallons of blood in a man.

One tiny wafer OR one sip of wine IS the entire Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, living and present, of Jesus Christ.

It is because Jesus is the Passover Lamb of God that we, like the captive Israelites in Egypt, must consume it, in order to be set free from the bondage of sin.

But we don’t need to go overboard, because it is a spiritual meal; not a physical meal. That’s why there are restrictions on the number of times people can receive the Eucharist in any one day.

Remember that all who did not consume the original Passover lamb were not set free from Egypt - how much more so, those who do not participate in the Sacraments of Jesus Christ, cannot be set free from sin.
 
Yes, but it would have been crazy to call him a glutton and a drunkard, if he was continually fasting and walking around in sack-cloth and ashes.

Obviously, he had a reputation as a party animal. (Which the miracle at Cana bears out, as well.)

Otherwise they could not have realistically accused him of gluttony and drunkenness, could they? 😃
LOL Im trying to picture Jesus as a party animal:eek: Nope just cant do it:p Anyway, they could say anything they wanted and exaggerated.We humans are good at that:D
 
Remember that all who did not consume the original Passover lamb were not set free from Egypt - how much more so, those who do not participate in the Sacraments of Jesus Christ, cannot be set free from sin.
Hi,
Be careful what you say someone might ask you to back it up with Scripture:D
 
Those passages above do not talk about eating His flesh at all. The wording is different from John and that is probably because John’s passages arent talking about the Last Supper.
Are you really suggesting that the apostles took the bread but did not eat it? :ehh: Of course they ate it, and He said that it was His body.
“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.”
Every catholic I have read here says that Jesus didnt give an explanation but He did in verse 63 and the disciples got it so Jesus didnt need to explain it any further.
So how do these words of Jesus deny the Real Presence and the need to eat His flesh and drink His blood? Go through it piece by piece for us.
Jesus spoke of bread and wine because us humans can understand that food and drink sustain physical life as Jesus mentioned in earlier passages. So, when He was making the comparison He was pretty much tellinh His disciples they need to believe in Him because He gives us eternal life.
Sorry that was a long post.:o
Then why didn’t Jesus hold up Scripture and say that was His body and blood? That would have been the correct gesture according to the understanding of John 6 that you are proposing.
 
So how do these words of Jesus deny the Real Presence and the need to eat His flesh and drink His blood? Go through it piece by piece for us.
How does it prove transubstantiation?
Honestly, I have said what I am going to say on this subject. HOW DO I KEEP GETTING MYSELF INTO THIS CONVERSATION:eek: UGG
I promise myself this was a topic I would stay away from.:o It would be pointless for me to through it piece by piece because it will not change your mind. For me this is something we will have to agree to diseagree on.👍
 
So did I. The Book of Exodus is the prefigurement of Christ’s sacrifice for our sins. The Passover meal is the prefigurement of the Mass.
Hi,
Maybe I misunderstood you then. When you said that we have to participate in the sacrements(Ill assume of the CC) we cannot be forgiven of our sins. We are forgiven of our sins if we believe in what Jesus did on the cross not by following sacrements.👍
 
How does it prove transubstantiation?
Honestly, I have said what I am going to say on this subject. HOW DO I KEEP GETTING MYSELF INTO THIS CONVERSATION:eek: UGG
I promise myself this was a topic I would stay away from.:o It would be pointless for me to through it piece by piece because it will not change your mind. For me this is something we will have to agree to diseagree on.👍
I do understand. I’ll just end then by noting that you are always the embodiment of charity in these discussions, even when I’m sure you’re getting frustrated.
 
Hi,
Maybe I misunderstood you then. When you said that we have to participate in the sacrements(Ill assume of the CC) we cannot be forgiven of our sins.
Because that’s the channel of grace from that moment at 3:00 pm on March 25, 33 AD on a hill in Palestine that connects to us here in this place, right now.

The picture I use is of the tap that gets the water from the reservoir five miles away into my kitchen sink - without that pipeline, I can believe in the reservoir all I want, but I won’t be able to use the water.

The Sacraments are pipelines of grace from Christ on the cross to us here and now, just like kitchen taps are pipelines of water. 😉
We are forgiven of our sins if we believe in what Jesus did on the cross not by following sacrements.👍
The Devil believes in what Jesus did on the Cross - he understands it better than we ever will - he’s not saved, though.
 
I do understand. I’ll just end then by noting that you are always the embodiment of charity in these discussions, even when I’m sure you’re getting frustrated.
Hi,
Im more frustrated at my self because I keep engaging in a topic I dont want to anymore.:o
Thank you for the kind comment–I try to be charitable.😃
 
Hi,
Maybe I misunderstood you then. When you said that we have to participate in the sacrements(Ill assume of the CC) we cannot be forgiven of our sins. We are forgiven of our sins if we believe in what Jesus did on the cross not by following sacrements.👍
That is not what Jesus Christ said :nope: !! The Eucharist is a must.

John 15:4-5…
Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, your are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit. For apart from me you can do nothing.
How do we abide in Him ?
**John 6: 52-59…**The jews than disputed among themselves, saying,"How can this man give us his flesh to eat? So Jesus said to them, "Truely, truely, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you: He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and **I in him. **As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.
.
 
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