Protestant Composers and Sacred Music

[PatThePoet]

Before Vatican II (and liturgical music changes) were the likes of Bach’s “St. Matthew’s Passion” and Handel’s “Messiah” preformed in Catholic churches or by Catholic choirs? These great composers were both Protestant, and though their music is beautiful and deeply moving, something tells me that the Church may have blacklisted their music in Catholic parts of Germany and other places as “heretical Protestant service music”

 

[bostonboy23]

if they did it was done in error. protestants are not “heretics” they just happen to disagree with us.

 

[Erich]

they just happen to disagree with us

which – by definition – makes them heretics.

All Christian truth (e.g. belief in the Trinity) originates from the Catholic Church. To the extent that Protestants believe in doctrines which differ from – or are contrary to – what the Catholic Church teaches (e.g. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, etc.) they espouse heresy.

I know that doesn’t sound charitable or “PC” but it’s the truth.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Before Vatican II (and liturgical music changes) were the likes of Bach’s “St. Matthew’s Passion” and Handel’s “Messiah” preformed in Catholic churches or by Catholic choirs? These great composers were both Protestant, and though their music is beautiful and deeply moving, something tells me that the Church may have blacklisted their music in Catholic parts of Germany and other places as “heretical Protestant service music”

Handel was quite prolific in writing music for Catholic Liturgy. He (maybe more than most non-Catholic composers) had an ability to produce great music for Catholic Liturgy. I wrote an article on Handel’s music that was for a celebration of Vespers for the Carmelites in Rome in the 18th century. His music part of the actual Vespers and Mass for that feast day (Feast of Our Lady of Mount Carmel - 1707).

 

[dixibehr]

Neither Bach’s Passions nor Handel’s oratorios were intended as service music.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

which – by definition – makes them heretics.

All Christian truth (e.g. belief in the Trinity) originates from the Catholic Church. To the extent that Protestants believe in doctrines which differ from – or are contrary to – what the Catholic Church teaches (e.g. Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, etc.) they espouse heresy.

I know that doesn’t sound charitable or “PC” but it’s the truth.

One who is not a Catholic cannot be called a Catholic heretic. Martin Luther was a heretic. Joe Blow Lutheran is not, even if his beliefs originated in a heretical Catholic movement, because he has never been a Catholic. If Joe dissented from traditional Lutheran teaching, they could call him a Lutheran heretic, but not a Catholic heretic. Likewise, I could not be considered a heretical Muslim because I’ve never been a Muslim.

Regarding music by Protestant composers, some of it better represents Catholic theology than certain mainly contemporary pieces claiming to be Catholic. Also, while the works of some composers like Mozart were once banned from liturgical use because of issues in the composers’ lives (i.e. Freemasonry), it was vastly superior music to the works of certain unmentioned modern authors whose lifestyles would, let’s just say, get one kicked out of the Masons.

 

[Erich]

One who is not a Catholic cannot be called a Catholic heretic.

CCC 2089 uses the following definitions:

Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” [CIC, can. 751]

Likewise, I could not be considered a heretical Muslim because I’ve never been a Muslim.

As I recall, the word they use to describe that is “infidel”

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

As I recall, the word they use to describe that is “infidel”

ALALALALALALALALAAAAAA!:bowdown:

I’d rather listen to a muezzin in the bell tower than Marty Haugen during the Mass.

Seriously, works like Händel’s Messiah were never intended for use during Mass or Protestant worship, but were concert pieces. The Mass provided a convenient template for composers both Catholic and non-Catholic to create a suite of related musical pieces: *Kyrie, Gloria, Credo, Sanctus, Benedictus, *and Agnus Dei. Most of the grandiose Mass settings were not written to be used during an actual Mass, although this has sometimes been attempted. The results were often that the Mass was changed into a concert.:

 

[Jean_Anthony]

Please stick to the OP’s topic and leave aside the discussion as to who is/isn’t a heretic. Please take that discussion to the Apologetics forum. Thank you all.

 

[Sarabande]

Before Vatican II (and liturgical music changes) were the likes of Bach’s “St. Matthew’s Passion” and Handel’s “Messiah” preformed in Catholic churches or by Catholic choirs? These great composers were both Protestant, and though their music is beautiful and deeply moving, something tells me that the Church may have blacklisted their music in Catholic parts of Germany and other places as “heretical Protestant service music”

Well, for one, oratorios were never intended for mass by the composer - whether the composer was Catholic or Protestant. It was religious music that could be done in performance in secular venues or as a sacred music concert, etc. I have never heard the Messiah performed during mass, although for concerts, I have.

The same for some musical settings of masses. There were composers (Catholic, Protestant and Jewish) who wrote masses, not actually intending it to be done during mass, but just to follow the format of a mass and to be done during concert - again either in a secular or sacred venue. One example would be Beethoven’s “Missa Solemnis”.

Bach’s music was always played in both Catholic and Protestant churches. I’m not certain of all his sacred music, but I do know his organ music was. Mozart’s music was sometimes not played - not because of his connections with freemasonry - but because some found his music too joyful for mass. Example - The archbishop of Salzburg and him didn’t get along and he did not want Mozart’s music at mass partly because he didn’t like Mozart on a personal level and partly because he found some of his music inappropriate. The bishop in Vienna, though, thought his music was absolutely appropriate and allowed for mass. And many, if not most, Catholic men in that area at that time were freemasons doing it more so for connections reasons. When you read letters by Mozart, he was actually a very devout man and stayed with the Catholic Church, and like many Catholics at the time (it wasn’t that long after freemasonry was decried by the Church) most lower level masons really didn’t see the big deal about it. They looked at it as a business club in many ways for connections. That’s what “Die Zauberflote” was all about - just poking fun at all of it. Easy for us to know differently with 20/20 vision.

With the exception of that blacklist in the 1920s or so, which wasn’t put out by the Vatican, I don’t know of any actual, official blacklist of compositions by Protestant composers.