Protestant concept of the impossibility of God.

[Mannyfit75]

This thread is not directly aim at all Protestants. There are those who adhere to similiar beliefs as Catholic. I do like to point out that nearly all the discussion I have with most Protestants here, they seem to think that God can’t do everything.

Do you want me to explain. Consider these supernatural aspect of certain Catholic beliefs that are essential to our faith.

Perpetual Virginity of Mary: Mary remain a virgin before and after the birth of Jesus Christ. Catholics and Orthodox affirms this and believe that God made this possible hence. All things are possible with God.

Protestant Objection: Most Protestants object to this belief, and therefore, I could rightly assumed that God cannot do this, so God, in essence, is the God of impossibility not possiblity.

Other Protestant objections is the Real Presence, Immaculate Conception, Assumption of Mary, which the Catholic Church affirms that this is possible through God’s power, while Protestant reject this so again. We see Protestant see God as the God of impossiblitity.

Papal Infallibility is the other thing. That is the Pope when teaching in his teaching office on matters and faith and morals cannot error because the Holy Spirit preserve him from teaching erroneous doctrines.

Conclusion: I can probably go on and type other Protestant objection. However the main point is clear. Catholics believe that miracles can happen with the help of the Power of God, or his intervention. While Protestants do not believe it is possible.

The question remains, which Christian faith affirms that with God all things are possible? It seem to me that the Catholics affirm this strongly compared to Protestant brand of theology.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Perhaps, I went to deep in this thread.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

This thread is not directly aim at all Protestants. There are those who adhere to similiar beliefs as Catholic. I do like to point out that nearly all the discussion I have with most Protestants here, they seem to think that God can’t do everything.

Do you want me to explain. Consider these supernatural aspect of certain Catholic beliefs that are essential to our faith.

Perpetual Virginity of Mary: Mary remain a virgin before and after the birth of Jesus Christ. Catholics and Orthodox affirms this and believe that God made this possible hence. All things are possible with God.

Protestant Objection: Most Protestants object to this belief, and therefore, I could rightly assumed that God cannot do this, so God, in essence, is the God of impossibility not possiblity.

Other Protestant objections is the Real Presence, Immaculate Conception, Assumption of Mary, which the Catholic Church affirms that this is possible through God’s power, while Protestant reject this so again. We see Protestant see God as the God of impossiblitity.

Papal Infallibility is the other thing. That is the Pope when teaching in his teaching office on matters and faith and morals cannot error because the Holy Spirit preserve him from teaching erroneous doctrines.

Conclusion: I can probably go on and type other Protestant objection. However the main point is clear. Catholics believe that miracles can happen with the help of the Power of God, or his intervention. While Protestants do not believe it is possible.

The question remains, which Christian faith affirms that with God all things are possible? It seem to me that the Catholics affirm this strongly compared to Protestant brand of theology.

I personally believe that all things are possible through God. I have no objection to the Real Presence, Perpetual Virginity and Assumption of Mary, etc. Papal infallibility is an issue that doesn’t play into the idea of impossibility. It is possible, but is rejected on Scriptural and logical grounds as far as I’m concerned. God can do anything he pleases.

Peace…

MW

 

[Church_Militant]

Interesting thesis Emmanuel.

One thing that I would probably qualify is that the way it is expressed in most cases is more like “God cannot do anything that is not specifically stated in the Bible.” Which makes perfect sense from the perspective of Sola Scriptura, while ignoring a passage like John 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Interesting thesis Emmanuel.

One thing that I would probably qualify is that the way it is expressed in most cases is more like “God cannot do anything that is not specifically stated in the Bible.” Which makes perfect sense from the perspective of Sola Scriptura, while ignoring a passage like John 21:25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; which, if they were written every one, the world itself, I think, would not be able to contain the books that should be written.

You are right. The faulty doctrine of Sola Scriptura does seem to imply indirectly that God can’t do anything. Even though, most Protestant would deny this. When they deny these truths, God’s work becomes impossible. So they deny that Mary is sinless, or that priest cannot forgive in the Name of Jesus. As long as essential belief is not explicit in Scripture, God’s wonders become impossible. This itself leads to false dichotomy.

 

[SyCarl]

The question is not whether God could do any of these things’; God can do anything He wants. The question is whether God did do these things and whether we are required to believe them.

 

[bengal_fan]

Perhaps, I went to deep in this thread.

manny, i really think you should re-think why you are here. your debate skills are lacking (just look at the assumptions you jump to in everyone of your threads) and you just seem to be argumentative. do you really think you are convincing anyone? not with the ire your posts seem to contain. i do like some of the things you say, but they are either followed or preceded by something that is extremely (and obviously meant to be) offensive and derogatory. i know i’m rethinking the point in being here because of your posts, maybe you should to.

 

[Mannyfit75]

manny, i really think you should re-think why you are here. your debate skills are lacking (just look at the assumptions you jump to in everyone of your threads) and you just seem to be argumentative. do you really think you are convincing anyone? not with the ire your posts seem to contain. i do like some of the things you say, but they are either followed or preceded by something that is extremely (and obviously meant to be) offensive and derogatory. i know i’m rethinking the point in being here because of your posts, maybe you should to.

These are my observation on Protestant theology, which I strongly believe to be flawed. I don’t think it is offensive or derogatory. Unless you can present a position that can convince me otherwise, I won’t reconsider my points. These commentary of mine, are opinions.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The question is not whether God could do any of these things’; God can do anything He wants. The question is whether God did do these things and whether we are required to believe them.

It requires faith to believe them. Protestant objection to Catholic beliefs is the mere fact that these beliefs are not explicit in Scripture (though they are implied).

 

[mozart-250]

It requires faith to believe them. Protestant objection to Catholic beliefs is the mere fact that these beliefs are not explicit in Scripture (though they are implied).

No, your original premise says that Protestants think they are impossible. That is not true.

There is a difference between believing that it is impossible to believe that historical event A could not have happened and that historical event A did happen.

Your next door neighbor goes to a Benny Hinn revival meeting and claims she was healed of cancer. Could this have happened…sure. God can heal cancer. The issue here is *did *it happen?

Would you be showing lack of faith by suspending belief that it did happen until you had convincing evidence (for example Dr’s verification). No. You simply want reason to believe something before you go and believe every report that comes your way.

Mr “bengal fan” is correct in observing the faulty reasoning used on these boards to smear Protestants.

 

[puzzleannie]

I have also been in dialogue with Protestants of many denominations for very many years, and very few will say categorically that God cannot and did not do any of these things OP mentions. What they will invariably say is that these things cannot be made infallible doctrine which we are required to believe, and their reason is that these things are not explicitly stated in Scripture. So their thinking comes not from denial of God, but denial of the teaching authority of the Catholic Church and of any means of receiving and handing on Divine Revelation save through the written word.

What is true that in refusing to consider these doctrines, they are limited in their understanding of the meaning of the Incarnation, so if there is a denial, that is where it lies.

my statement is does not imply the attempt or ability to generalize about all Protestants, any more than OP has that right. As I have said before, an thread that begins with “Protestants believe” or “Protestants teach” or “Protestants do” without qualification of which Protestants, when, where, of what denomination, and the source for the statement, is of no value and is in fact dangerous.

My discussion is based on my understanding of what various individual Protestants have said to me over the years, or have spoken in public outlets like Christian radio or books and is limited, personal and qualified perception.

 

[bengal_fan]

These are my observation on Protestant theology, which I strongly believe to be flawed. I don’t think it is offensive or derogatory. Unless you can present a position that can convince me otherwise, I won’t reconsider my points. These commentary of mine, are opinions.

the problem is that you don’t know protestant theology anymore than jack chick knows catholic theology. it is offensive and derogatory the way you word things (not matter what you think). i am not here to try to convince you of anything. debate is great, when others understand how to do it in a civil manner. i am not asking you to reconsider you points, i am asking you to get a better grasp on either the material or effective communication. remember that we are to speak the truth in love.

 

[Mannyfit75]

the problem is that you don’t know protestant theology anymore than jack chick knows catholic theology. it is offensive and derogatory the way you word things (not matter what you think). i am not here to try to convince you of anything. debate is great, when others understand how to do it in a civil manner. i am not asking you to reconsider you points, i am asking you to get a better grasp on either the material or effective communication. remember that we are to speak the truth in love.

I understand Protestant theology because one of its pillars is Sola Scriptura. I don’t think it is derogatory tell me how it is derogatory?

1. Did I mock Protestants? Nope, I just think the Protestant theology itself is flawed and a new concept invited by Martin Luther and other Protestant Reformers.
2. I pretty much know what I grasp concerning Protestantism itself.
3. This post is directed at the flawed theology of Protestantism not Protestant individuals themselves.

 

[Mannyfit75]

No, your original premise says that Protestants think they are impossible. That is not true.

There is a difference between believing that it is impossible to believe that historical event A could not have happened and that historical event A did happen.

If this is true, why invent the belief that Mary didn’t remain a virgin.

Your next door neighbor goes to a Benny Hinn revival meeting and claims she was healed of cancer. Could this have happened…sure. God can heal cancer. The issue here is *did *it happen?

His miracles are false.

Would you be showing lack of faith by suspending belief that it did happen until you had convincing evidence (for example Dr’s verification). No. You simply want reason to believe something before you go and believe every report that comes your way.

Mr “bengal fan” is correct in observing the faulty reasoning used on these boards to smear Protestants.

I smear Protestant theology of Sola Scriptura not Protestants.

 

[BrianH]

This thread is not directly aim at all Protestants. There are those who adhere to similiar beliefs as Catholic. I do like to point out that nearly all the discussion I have with most Protestants here, they seem to think that God can’t do everything.

Perhaps you should link a Protestant who has said these things, that God “cannot” do that.

Perpetual Virginity of Mary: Mary remain a virgin before and after the birth of Jesus Christ. Catholics and Orthodox affirms this and believe that God made this possible hence. All things are possible with God.

absolutely

Protestant Objection: Most Protestants object to this belief, and therefore, I could rightly assumed that God cannot do this, so God, in essence, is the God of impossibility not possiblity.

I think your assumption is incorrect. I have never heard anyone say that, perhaps you will link to support your statement.

Other Protestant objections is the Real Presence, Immaculate Conception, Assumption of Mary, which the Catholic Church affirms that this is possible through God’s power, while Protestant reject this so again. We see Protestant see God as the God of impossiblitity.

Wow…Manny Manny

Papal Infallibility is the other thing. That is the Pope when teaching in his teaching office on matters and faith and morals cannot error because the Holy Spirit preserve him from teaching erroneous doctrines.

All of Christianity sees the Pope as fallible except Catholics

 

[SyCarl]

I understand Protestant theology because one of its pillars is Sola Scriptura. I don’t think it is derogatory tell me how it is derogatory?

1. Did I mock Protestants? Nope, I just think the Protestant theology itself is flawed and a new concept invited by Martin Luther and other Protestant Reformers.
2. I pretty much know what I grasp concerning Protestantism itself.
3. This post is directed at the flawed theology of Protestantism not Protestant individuals themselves.

Your understanding of Protestant theology is certainly flawed if you say that it denies the omnipotence of God. You will find no where that God is limited in what he can do. I will quote from the Westminster Confession of Faith, which is one well known Reformed confession. Tell me, where does it suggest that there is anything that God cannot do?

CHAP. II. - Of God, and of the Holy Trinity.

1. There is but one only, living, and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions; immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute; working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will, for His own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin; the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him; and withal, most just, and terrible in His judgments, hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty.

1. God hath all life, glory, goodness, blessedness, in and of Himself; and is alone in and unto Himself all-sufficient, not standing in need of any creatures which He hath made, nor deriving any glory from them, but only manifesting His own glory in, by, unto, and upon them. He is the alone fountain of all being, of whom, through whom, and to whom are all things and hath most sovereign dominion over them, to do by them, for them, or upon them whatsoever Himself pleaseth. In His sight all things are open and manifest, His knowledge is infinite, infallible, and independent upon the creature, so as nothing is to Him contingent, or uncertain. He is most holy in all His counsels, in all His works, and in all His commands. To Him is due from angels and men, and every other creature, whatsoever worship, service, or obedience He is pleased to require of them.

1. In the unity of the Godhead there be three persons, of one substance, power, and eternity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost: the Father is of none, neither begotten, not proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten of the Father; the Holy Ghost eternally proceeding from the Father and the Son.

pcanet.org/general/cof_chapi-v.htm#chapii

 

[Mannyfit75]

Your understanding of Protestant theology is certainly flawed if you say that it denies the omnipotence of God. You will find no where that God is limited in what he can do. I will quote from the Westminster Confession of Faith, which is one well known Reformed confession. Tell me, where does it suggest that there is anything that God cannot do?

pcanet.org/general/cof_chapi-v.htm#chapii

Flawed? I don’t think so. My concerns still reflect the denial of essential Christian beliefs.

Then why do some of your brothers and sisters deny the Perpetual Virginity of Mary? While it is believed by the Early Christians that Mary remain a virgin. They also believe she was also sinless.

or the Sacrifice of Divine Liturgy. That the Jesus Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity is not present in the Eucharist, and claim it is only Symbolic. A Concept not believed by the Early Christians?

Of course, if you read the original OP, it said “its not directly targeted to all Protestants, since some of them held somewhat Catholic belief.” Go and take look at the Op. I also like to add how much different in theology Protestantism is compared to Christianity of the First Century.

While I do think Protestant that God can do miracle, the lack of unbelieving essential beliefs that Catholic Church believe to be necessary such as Immaculate Conception, Assumption, Real Presence, Confession, Papal Infallibility, etc. It is the Catholic doctrine and beliefs that I find completely troubling for Protestants to accept. When Protestants deny these to be True, they in turn deny God’s role in these beliefs. Thus, denial of these beliefs would implied that God cannot make these possible. So it does go back to the Op that Protestant theology of Sola Scriptura makes God impossible to do these things.

 

[ralphinal]

Boy has this thread gotten off track. I do like the new course, though. I must say that I find issue with the term “Protestant Theology.” There are too many varying doctrines to lump them together as a single, coherant “theology.” Even Sola Scriptura means different things to different groups. I feel that it is impossible to say that any one person can understand “Protestant Theology” as a unit because of this. I know what a good number of Protestant groups teach, as do many posters on here. I cannot and should not say that all of them believe the same thing. If that were the case, there would be a lot less denominations. I am guilty of lumping them in together, though. It is too easy to do.

Bengal, we joined at about the same time, when this place was young. I have learned a good deal from you. If, in fact, you are getting weary of some of this, I understand. I took a break myself. But please do not give up. You are a great light to all, protestant, non-Christian, and Catholic.

Manny, I enjoy your posts. Many times I agree. I do think that we should all remember that people can read tone into postings, even if we meant nothing by them. I do not want you to give up defending the faith. I do want you to remember that, for 95% of the people on here, we are not enemies.

Back to God. I think everyone limits God without meaning to. Sometimes it is because of a lack of getting prayers answered as we want to. Sometimes, it is to keep God in the box that we want.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Protestant Objection: Most Protestants object to this belief, and therefore, I could rightly assumed that God cannot do this, so God, in essence, is the God of impossibility not possiblity.

Are you saying that whoever disagrees with your doctrinal opinion is saying that god is impossible?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Boy has this thread gotten off track. I do like the new course, though. I must say that I find issue with the term “Protestant Theology.” There are too many varying doctrines to lump them together as a single, coherant “theology.” Even Sola Scriptura means different things to different groups. I feel that it is impossible to say that any one person can understand “Protestant Theology” as a unit because of this. I know what a good number of Protestant groups teach, as do many posters on here. I cannot and should not say that all of them believe the same thing. If that were the case, there would be a lot less denominations. I am guilty of lumping them in together, though. It is too easy to do.

If you read the first message I made it clear that its not targeted to all Protestants.

Bengal, we joined at about the same time, when this place was young. I have learned a good deal from you. If, in fact, you are getting weary of some of this, I understand. I took a break myself. But please do not give up. You are a great light to all, protestant, non-Christian, and Catholic.

Well said.

Manny, I enjoy your posts. Many times I agree. I do think that we should all remember that people can read tone into postings, even if we meant nothing by them. I do not want you to give up defending the faith. I do want you to remember that, for 95% of the people on here, we are not enemies.

They aren’t our enemies. They are misguided souls. Their ancestors were originally Catholics long before their families break and join Protestant churches.

They have drifted away from the One Church of Christ.

Back to God. I think everyone limits God without meaning to. Sometimes it is because of a lack of getting prayers answered as we want to. Sometimes, it is to keep God in the box that we want.

Protestants denial of essential Christian beliefs that we Catholic preserved since they are a part of Divine Revelation to be truthful because the Holy Spirit guided the Church in all truths. Protestant reject these beliefs because they aren’t explicit in Scripture. If you look at the Church document concerning Immaculate Conception, Virginity of Mary, Real Presence, they all have one thing in common. God is strongly involve to make these belief possible. To deny this, would imply that God cannot make this possible.