The first point, if Carthage, Hippo, etc. determined the canon, there would be no canons in the east that differ from Rome’s.
The reason would be there is no such thing a “The Protestant Church”. To expect varying communions with different origins to together hold a council, particularly on the canon of scripture seems odd.
He witnessed to those Christians reading those books that they were indeed inspired. He witnessed to those writing the confessions. He witnesses to Christians living today.
The universal church.
Do you know of any Protestants adding books to the Bible?
Protestants determined it. It is the norm by which everything else should be judged.
Because its common knowledge what books are contained in the Old and New Testaments. Why kill trees to list books that everyone knows?
That they were individuals is exactly the point. Until Trent, Catholics had the privilege to question those books held throughout the history of the Church as disputed
Cajetan: Commentary on All the Authentic Historical Books of the Old Testament.
Universal Jurisdiction appears to be a contradiction of Nicea 325, canon 6. It also seems that it isn’t just the view of western non-Catholics.
Cardinal Cajetan, just before the Council of Trent: Edited. Jon beat me to it!
I’m not sure your example is a good fit for this conversation. The Divinity of Christ was clearly settled in Scripture - no Catholic (much less, a highly respected, learned Cardinal like a Cajetan!) would openly dispute His divinity at a council. The mere fact that there was an open debate regarding the canon at Trent proves that it was not official throughout the church.
So then, no two Popes would ever disagree on matters of faith and morals, since both would be “correctly” interpreting scripture? I get it. When Pope Boniface VIII said, “Now, therefore, we declare, say, determine and pronounce that for every human creature it is necessary for salvation to be subject to the authority of the Roman pontiff,” what he really meant was, “Separated Churches and communities… have by no means been deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation.” -Unitatis Redintegratio
Not at all - I am a worm. What I am saying is that Lutherans do not have such a heavy need to define a canon in the same way that Catholics and Protestants do. As Pietro noted, it was Rome that felt the need to define a canon. Protestant Reformed Christians (particularly in America) sought to do away with anything deemed “Papist” in response to Trent’s reforms, and some removed the DC altogether. Lutherans take a different stance. Again, I’m going to have to direct you to the link I provided (and re-posted in post #30): forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10877204&postcount=30
You’re barking up the wrong tree here, Pietro. We do happen to be quite fond of that ESV translation and most of our pastors do not consider the DC to be Scripture, but again, I must stress that the Lutheran Confessions do not define a canon. In fact, Luther’s Bible was bigger than the one approved by Catholics at Trent (Special thanks to our friends in the next thread over for the link!
): latifhakigaba.blogspot.com/2010/02/did-luther-throw-out-books-of-bible.html.It is also important to point out that Lutherans often use the DC’s liturgically in our lectionary, and in our hymnody.You’re barking up the wrong tree here, Pietro. We do happen to be quite fond of that ESV translation and most of our pastors do not consider the DC to be Scripture, but again, I must stress that the Lutheran Confessions do not define a canon. In fact, Luther’s Bible was bigger than the one approved by Catholics at Trent (Special thanks to our friends in the next thread over for the link!
The LCMS also prints out a very nice hardcover version of this: cph.org/p-19305-the-apocrypha-the-lutheran-edition-with-notes.aspx The DCs are making a bit of a comeback in the LCMS, and in Lutheranism in general.
I certainly agree with this - no Lutheran I know has gotten upset about this issue. When I bring up the fact that Luther’s bible (and the Catholic bible) have more books than our typical Bible, I encounter curiosity and eagerness to find out more.
I don’t even think a defined canon of scripture would be considered church-dividing by most knowledgeable Lutherans, assuming major doctrinal issues were solved between us and Rome.
Who are these Christians that wrote the Westminster confessions and determined what the Canon of Scriptures was? And did they come from that same Church Christ and His Apostles founded?
Catholic = Acts 9:31 = The Church as a Whole. The Universal Church has spoken about the Canon and it was finally closed at Trent.
Adding? I don’t know of any.
Which Protestants specifically? And was this private revelation for the new Church after 1,500 years?
Common knowledge to whom? And how did this common knowledge came to us? When and where and whom did this common knowledge was revealed to?
Luther added Prayer of Mannasseh to his translation of the western scripture. His translation had/has 74 books.
No, Jose, there were numerous of the course of history, starting with Eusebius and St. Jerome.So other than 2 guys (Erasmus and Cajetan) out of millions there is no other disagreements?
What is the percentage of that dissension?
I’m going to divide this on only 1 million:
2/1,000,000 =** 0.000002 %**
So because of 0.000002% we cannot determine or conclude that there was agreement on the Canon?
Wow.
So other than 2 guys (Erasmus and Cajetan) out of millions there is no other disagreements?
What is the percentage of that dissension?
I’m going to divide this on only 1 million:
2/1,000,000 =** 0.000002 %**
So because of 0.000002% we cannot determine or conclude that there was agreement on the Canon?
Wow.
In that case, Jose, you deserve and have my apologies. Mondays get long…
Looks like it is a matter of interpretation. From what I gather, Jon…you seem to be favoring the OC interpretation?
Brother, pablope beat me to it. There will always be some who do not fully agree with __________ (Fill in the blank). But even when they don’t agree, there are some that will concede to authority.
Thank you Jon, I am again humbled by your charity. God Bless and I pray your recovery is coming along well and most importantly fast!
Understood Don, thank you. Sadly I’ve been there, done that, and have a t-shirt
Of course they do, Mary. I would say that those mentioned who did not hold the DC’s equal no less so. That’s the point. Cajetan was not disobeying or contradicting the Church. Before Trent this was allowed. Trent ends the discussion for Catholics about the canon of scripture. Not Hippo, not Carthage.