Protestant Council to Determine Canonicity

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PRmerger said:
But that didn’t answer my question, friend.

How do you know when the church is correct or in error? And if it’s erroneous, are you still bound to submit to your church’s authority?
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I can’t quite describe my thought process - but to use a phrase “I know it when I see it”. Be aware I have been accused of being quite joyful around Anglo-Catholics, Catholics and Orthodox knowing that their churches preach the Gospel and administer the sacraments.

I would say, we are not to bind ourselves to error, only Christ.
 
steido01 said:
The early church elected its local bishops by vote of the laity. Today, the RCC’s hierarchy appoints bishops. Is either necessarily more right or wrong than the other? History seems to say that the Power of the Keys is not dependent on polity or certain rites of hierarchy (after all, Arius was a bishop…). Christ certainly granted the Power of the Keys to the Apostles, and we respect their teachings just as our Roman Catholic brothers do. We simply do not accept that that power was granted exclusively to Peter.

Huh…:confused: Sorry steid…you completely went off tangent with your reply to my query:

Originally Posted by pablope
Which goes back to my original query…if as you say Lutheranism is a valid continuation of the western church…and as you and others have said, you rely on early church tradition…which always had patriarches and had connections to the Apostles…how can Lutheranism be a valid continuation is it has none of these?

Besides, what does election of bishops by lait have anything to do with my query? As I understand, don’t Lutherans elect their pastors and their president and bishops?

So what is wrong with changing the selection of bishops? Do you think this change is not guided by the HS?
History seems to say that the Power of the Keys is not dependent on polity or certain rites of hierarchy (after all, Arius was a bishop…). Christ certainly granted the Power of the Keys to the Apostles, and we respect their teachings just as our Roman Catholic brothers do. We simply do not accept that that power was granted exclusively to Peter
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benjohnson said:
I can’t quite describe my thought process - but to use a phrase “I know it when I see it”.

But this is a form of infallability…when you know when you see it…you have made yourself the authority to decide what is truth and what is not, what is error and what is not.
I would say, we are not to bind ourselves to error, only Christ
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benjohnson said:
pablope;10888352:
Perhaps! I’m content and thankful with my Lutheran home in Christ - perhaps the Holy Sprit has discerned for me.
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Ben thank you for this response. It is a logical conclusion and I can help but think most posters, at this point, would continue defending their position resulting in a circular argument. Your candor is refreshing.

Peace!!!
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steido01 said:
The early church elected its local bishops by vote of the laity. Today, the RCC’s hierarchy appoints bishops. Is either necessarily more right or wrong than the other? History seems to say that the Power of the Keys is not dependent on polity or certain rites of hierarchy (after all, Arius was a bishop…). Christ certainly granted the Power of the Keys to the Apostles, and we respect their teachings just as our Roman Catholic brothers do. We simply do not accept that that power was granted exclusively to Peter.
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Things naturally develop. The Church needed to ensure that the proper hierarchy was observed and followed. The laity didn’t chose anything without the guidance and leadership of those appointed/ordained by Apostolic succession. Without this guidance the Church would have disappeared and turn into what we see today in Protestantism - thousands of denomination with thousands of misinterpretations and all claiming to be guided by the Holy Spirit even they have many different truths.

And to bring the case of Arius and any other fallen away Church leader as an argument is just plain childish. It is the same logical argument used by my teenagers…

Christ said He would build His Church on Peter (Not His Faith but on Peter), which is later supported by Christ telling Peter and Peter only to: feed and tend His sheep, and He brought a witness for this (John).

You are free to accept or reject anything you want, that is the beauty of having freedom of choice. That does not mean that you are correct of course :).
steido01 said:
I’ll try to keep this brief because this can of worms has been opened in many-a-thread. Lutherans view the office of pope to be acting as anti-Christ (not the Antichrist) only insofar as he claims Universal Jurisdiction by divine right (rather than by human) and Infallibility. If he were to renounce his claims to these (or in the terms of Melanchthon, “allow the Gospel”) I am confident that Lutherans would immediately see no need to retain this view. While we see a wide variation of polity in Lutheran bodies, we are not averse to having an episcopal polity - so long as it is recognized to be of human need for order. We wouldn’t mind having a Pope again. 😃
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Allow the Gospel? Really? And please don’t get me started on Melanchthon…

And who can correctly interpret the Gospel? To whom was the Gospel given? What vessel was chosen to protect and interpret this Gospel? Who serves the Gospel?

The Pillar and Bullwark of Truth: The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
steido01 said:
We don’t, necessarily; we just don’t see ourselves as having the authority to define a canon in general. Leaving us free to dispute them or not, just as the ECFs did and just as some Roman Catholics did before Trent. Obviously, Lutherans don’t view Trent as a truly ecumenical council (we’re still “waiting for Mantua,” if you will), so we are not bound to its decisions.
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Again, the beauty of having the freedom to chose. Here is the main problem: it appears that to support your arguments and beliefs you are focusing on those who disagree with the established doctrines and dogmas of the Catholic Church. Instead of focusing on the agreement of the Church as a whole, which by the way is a lot more. Really think about this: throughout history we will always have dissension and disagreements, that is just the way we are. However, here you have the Catholic Church who has survived for almost 2,000 years.

Do you really think this has been accomplished by human effort? No, we have done everything in our power to destroy it (And I’m including myself here). But what we intend for evil, God intends for good. And Christ is much more powerful than all of us put together. And He keeps His promises. This my friend is the big white elephant in the room staring at us.
 
benjohnson said:
Perhaps! I’m content and thankful with my Lutheran home in Christ - perhaps the Holy Sprit has discerned for me.
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Brother, you must follow your conscience.

The irony of things… during my years of discerning whether to come back to the Catholic Faith or not, I had narrow down my choices to Catholic or Lutheran.

Do you know what gave me a push to come back?

This quote from Luther:

“to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. God help me. Amen.”

Oh, the irony!
 
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