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CHESTERTONRULES
Guest
Good observations.
I would add that the crucifix is a visible reminder of the greatest act of love in history.
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I would add that the crucifix is a visible reminder of the greatest act of love in history.
Z
Zundrah
Guest
Then come to my church, you will get exhausted from hearing it so often.
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Zundrah
Guest
P.S. Try going into a baptist church wearing one.
T
tweetymom
Guest
If it offends you so much why do you go there?
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Zundrah
Guest
It doesn’t offend me.If it offends you so much why do you go there?
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Bluegoat
Guest
Historical reasons that the crucifix isn’t used as often are not the same as some of the modern ones.
A number of the practices the Reformers objected to involved what they considered a kind of inappropriate idolatry. So, for example, it would be very rare to see saints relics in a Protestant church, or using a mostrance with the Eucharist in it. As well, expensive items such as jewels and treasures were thought to be inappropriate, heavy ornamentation in art or music. There was a real change in emphasis on images in general. All these things together were very much a reaction to certain Catholic practices, some of which no longer go on in the same way they do now. (Which can make it hard from our stand-point to see what the big deal was.)
The idea that the empty cross symbolizes a risen Christ and that is why Protestants have it is actually pretty modern as far as I can see. Which isn’t to say it didn’t exist before, but that was not the main reason they got rid of crucifixes. In fact, many Protestant groups have historically been as big or bigger than Catholics on suffering.
But it seems to me that there is a bit of a generalization here. Catholics use plain crosses, especially in certain contexts. And as a pp mentioned, there was a time when the Catholic crosses were depicted differently too.
A number of the practices the Reformers objected to involved what they considered a kind of inappropriate idolatry. So, for example, it would be very rare to see saints relics in a Protestant church, or using a mostrance with the Eucharist in it. As well, expensive items such as jewels and treasures were thought to be inappropriate, heavy ornamentation in art or music. There was a real change in emphasis on images in general. All these things together were very much a reaction to certain Catholic practices, some of which no longer go on in the same way they do now. (Which can make it hard from our stand-point to see what the big deal was.)
The idea that the empty cross symbolizes a risen Christ and that is why Protestants have it is actually pretty modern as far as I can see. Which isn’t to say it didn’t exist before, but that was not the main reason they got rid of crucifixes. In fact, many Protestant groups have historically been as big or bigger than Catholics on suffering.
But it seems to me that there is a bit of a generalization here. Catholics use plain crosses, especially in certain contexts. And as a pp mentioned, there was a time when the Catholic crosses were depicted differently too.
4
4Squarebaby
Guest
Consider, you call it “your” Methodist Church yet you are still seeking your path. I believe you are also attending RCIA judging by the almost daily change of your religious affiliation tag.
By wearing a crucifix you are announcing the intention to leave your home church. The cringe would be the same, well maybe more intense if you wore a cap, head scarf normally associated with Islam or wore the distinguishing accessories of other faiths.
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Bluegoat
Guest
I think perhaps another way of saying this is it is very uncharitable to make other people uncomfortable on purpose.
I’m a bit dissappointed, Eucharisted, in your comment here. You are usually more charitable.
That said, there may be a morsel of truth in what you say. In fact, for all Christians, there should be an element of shame that He should die on a cross for our sins.
The second verse of Johann Heerman’s wonderful lenten hymn,“Ah,Holy Jesus”
Who was the guilty? Who brought this upon Thee?
Alas, my treason, Jesus, hath undone Thee.
’Twas I, Lord, Jesus, I it was denied Thee!
I crucified Thee.
Jon
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
Great point because the reality of the Crucifixion is not that Christ was a victim of Roman persecution but that He hung on that cross for us and even more shamefully (for me anyways); He hung on that cross for me.
God bless you
D
Dokimas
Guest
Quite untrue. Have you forgotten Jesus was crucified, once, for all and has been raised from the dead never to die.
An empty cross happens because of the crucifixion - no crucifixion, no resurrection.
BTW, if God should ever see fit to call me to pastor a church, I’d want a crucifix that shows the terror of what Jesus went through. Many crucifixes don’t show the suffering of the Lord.
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
I agree with you, however, there is an eternal aspect to Christ’s once and for all sacrifice else wise Christ would not be portrayed in John’s Apocalypse as a Lamb standing as thought it had been slain:
*I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain * Rev. 5:6
God bless you
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Dokimas
Guest
Paul also said that if Jesus did not raise from the dead we are still dead in our sins.Christ did not redeem us on Easter day it was Good Friday ! And here is what Paul says about it.
“And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with pretentious speech or wisdom, announcing unto you the witness to Christ. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified” (1 Cor 2:1–2).
Peace, and God Bless
onenow1opcorn:
1 Corinthians 15:
12 ¶ Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.
14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.
15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up––if in fact the dead do not rise.
16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
I can listen to, and even understand to a point, a non-Catholic Christian’s desire not to wear a crucifix but since when has the crucifix been considered something outside of Christianity and on par with religious symbolism worn in Islam and other faiths?
God bless you
D
Dokimas
Guest
Are you an ex-protestant? If so, have you been a part of all the groups of protestants? If the answer is not to either question, then how do you know that protestants always ignore the suffering of Jesus?
Someone took Jesus off the Cross and place His shreaded, dead Body in a grave. Then the Father raised Him from the dead.
The crucifixion and the resurrection go together. One without the other is meaningless.
N
Newbie2
Guest
Ouch. I don’t agree with the statement either, but couldn’t we just go with “you’re mistaken”?
Have you ever seen a crucifix in a Lutheran Church, Jon? Just wondering. Apparently there are some Lutheran Churches that will cross themselves and do other “Catholic” things. I thought that I heard from a Lutheran friend that he did see one in a Lutheran Church, but I can’t remember if it was LCMS, ELCA, or another Lutheran flavor.
I’d have to agree with the notion that the empty cross represents the Risen Christ, and the emphasis thereupon vs. the Catholic emphasis on Christ Crucified.
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Dokimas
Guest
I love the verse that you quoted but with verse 5 where John was told to look at the Lion of Judah and when he looked he saw the Lamb that was slain.
5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”6 ¶ And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain,
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lil_flower_luv
Guest
Pray the Sorrowful Mysteries tonight and remember good and well - We must always be reminded of Jesus suffering for us, so that we may joyfully suffer for Him.
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Dokimas
Guest
For the most part I agree but I find it is easy for protestants to miss how wicked our sins are. It is very helpful to understand that the torn apart Body of Jesus, not only is for our forgiveness but to remind us of how wicked sin is. We had better remember sin destroys.
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4Squarebaby
Guest
It isn’t outside of Christianity no more then being a member of one church and then starting to dress as the Amish do after attending Bible studies with the Amish would be. She is simply annoucing her intention to leave that community, but the break is not clean and done with, it is dragged on for weeks.
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