Protestant Cross

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Roy5 said:
Correction: How could a loving Father plan for his own son’s murder? What kind of Father would do that?
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One who loved the world so much he would sacrifice His own Son to save it… and resurrect Him so that death would never have the last word.
 
Roy5 said:
Correction: How could a loving Father plan for his own son’s murder? What kind of Father would do that?
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God had no choice. He had entered into a Covenant with Abraham, a covenant that carried a death curse. God had to sacrifice Himself to make good on the Covenant.
 
I have enough faith in the power and wisdom and humanity of God to be sure that he could have chosen a different way to save us than that of essentially killing his own and only son. This is hardly a good example to the world. It can even seem like child abuse, if you will pardon my boldness. I personally think that it is a pagan invasion into the vital message which Christ came to give us, a message of love and hope and peace.
Code: 
 But I know that I'm outnumbered 1000 to 1 on CAF. And I don't knock those who can believe the traditional doctrines of Christianity. I once did - emphatically. It's just that I became an avid student of religion, including the mystery religions - cults of Mithra, Isis etc. - and the similarities are striking. I discovered lots of saviors born of virgins, blood sacrifices, bodily resurrections. etc. What I must reject, to be honest, is what I believe to be various pagan add-ons that have eclipsed the major thrust of Christ's teachings over the centuries.  

 Even so, I try to be a faithful follower of Christ and sing out hymns with gusto, even when I may not endorse all the words. I don't always ask: is this true? I ask: what does it say to me?  Faith is quite a lot like art or music. You don't ask: is that picture or that song true? You judge on the basis of how your soul is stirred. I also ask: how is my love for God deepened? I worship God daily, revere Christ daily, but I do have trouble with  much of the theological spin which interests me but doesn't capture my allegiance.

 Different strokes for different folks.

 May God bless all people of every creed, color and country.
 
Roy5 said:
I have enough faith in the power and wisdom and humanity of God to be sure that he could have chosen a different way to save us than that of essentially killing his own and only son.
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Do you remember when Jesus says, “No one takes this life from me? I lay it down of my own free will.”?

The Christian teaching of love and hope and peace is impotent without SACRIFICE.

I don’t know if you’re a dad or husband, Roy, but if you are you certainly know that it’s impossible to love without sacrifice.
What I must reject, to be honest, is what I believe to be various pagan add-ons that have eclipsed the major thrust of Christ’s teachings over the centuries.
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While I won’t argue the point of the “striking similaritie” in these “mystery cults”, I will say this neither proves nor disproves the virgin birth of Christ or bodily resurrection or atonement by blood. Perhaps they were glimpses of truth that were revealed to point to the One True Birth.
You don’t ask: is that picture or that song true? You judge on the basis of how your soul is stirred. I also ask: how is my love for God deepened? I worship God daily, revere Christ daily, but I do have trouble with much of the theological spin which interests me but doesn’t capture my allegiance.
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Perhaps. Clearly we must love God with our entire heart (as you do), but I encourage you to love God with your entire MIND as well. And that means deepening your understanding of these “theological spins” and to pursue Truth.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Ok, so you don’t attend church even though Christ explicitly tells you to do so, and there is nowhere in the bible that even mentions the word “personal”, that was derived from Luther just 500 years ago. I am glad you believe in Christ, but that simply is not enough. And the church in which Jesus Christ established, the Catholic church is far from any “religious activity” as you claim. It is the Word of Our Lord. One sheep, one shepherd. One.
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How do you know that Janet does not attend Church. You are certainally rude to her as well as others. There are a lot of things we do that arent in the Bible. I too have a personal relatationship with Jesus maybe you should try it.
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Ok, so you don’t attend church even though Christ explicitly tells you to do so, and there is nowhere in the bible that even mentions the word “personal”, that was derived from Luther just 500 years ago. I am glad you believe in Christ, but that simply is not enough. And the church in which Jesus Christ established, the Catholic church is far from any “religious activity” as you claim. It is the Word of Our Lord. One sheep, one shepherd. One.
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I will challenge you, OTCA, not your faith, but what you really think you know about Luther. What have you read about him? What is your source for this statement I’ve bolded?

And finally, you really don’t think that, as an example, Christ weeping at the loss of Lazarus isn’t evidence of His personal relationship with us?

Jon
 
tweetymom said:
How do you know that Janet does not attend Church. You are certainally rude to her as well as others. There are a lot of things we do that arent in the Bible. I too have a personal relatationship with Jesus maybe you should try it.
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Because she said she doesn’t. Asking her if she attends church is rude? Furthermore, my relationship with God goes far beyond what you can ever imagine.
I have had a locution from our Lord 3 years ago making me who and what I am today as far as defending Christ and His church. So you really have no clue as to whom you are speaking with. This is all I can tell you. And besides my fellow “Catholic”, if you want to pick an argument with me, you are wasting your time.
 
JonNC said:
I will challenge you, OTCA, not your faith, but what you really think you know about Luther. What have you read about him? What is your source for this statement I’ve bolded?

And finally, you really don’t think that, as an example, Christ weeping at the loss of Lazarus isn’t evidence of His personal relationship with us?

Jon
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I have mentioned many times about Luther on these forums. As a former Catholic monk, (remember everything for the first 1500 years was thoroughly Catholic in belief), according to him, the Catholic church was wrong. The audacity of this man, that this heretic could change and distort the Word of God is unspeakable.
But it goes much more than that. And frankly, it is way too long to discuss. Read his biography sometime.
 
JonNC said:
I will challenge you, OTCA, not your faith, but what you really think you know about Luther. What have you read about him? What is your source for this statement I’ve bolded?

And finally, you really don’t think that, as an example, Christ weeping at the loss of Lazarus isn’t evidence of His personal relationship with us?

Jon
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I don’t use the term “personal” because it is a Lutheran word. Christ loved Lazarus more than anything. Lazarus was a good man to Christ. For Jesus to have wept over this man was truly like a loving Father weeping over his son
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
I have mentioned many times about Luther on these forums. As a former Catholic monk, (remember everything for the first 1500 years was thoroughly Catholic in belief), according to him, the Catholic church was wrong. The audacity of this man, that this heretic could change and distort the Word of God is unspeakable.
But it goes much more than that. And frankly, it is way too long to discuss. Read his biography sometime.
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Here’s one of Luther’s most defining works:
On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
by Martin Luther (1483-1546)
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
Because she said she doesn’t. Asking her if she attends church is rude? Furthermore, my relationship with God goes far beyond what you can ever imagine.
I have had a locution from our Lord 3 years ago making me who and what I am today as far as defending Christ and His church. So you really have no clue as to whom you are speaking with. This is all I can tell you. And besides my fellow “Catholic”, if you want to pick an argument with me, you are wasting your time.
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In my humble oponion it is rude , and so what if she goes to Church or not? Does that make a difference in her walk with God?
I really don’t care what you are or who you claim to be and I don’t need any clues words speak volumnes!
And as far as an arguement goes it is not I who is always looking for an arguement!
I really have a hard time God wants holier than thou people to speak for Him. If you meet any maybe you can tell them that!
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
I have mentioned many times about Luther on these forums. As a former Catholic monk, (remember everything for the first 1500 years was thoroughly Catholic in belief), according to him, the Catholic church was wrong. The audacity of this man, that this heretic could change and distort the Word of God is unspeakable.
But it goes much more than that. And frankly, it is way too long to discuss. Read his biography sometime.
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I’d also like to read specifically about the changes Luther is supposed to have made to Bible translations. Would you please at least recommend a specific book that discusses that topic if you don’t have a website at hand?

I am sure JonNC has read at least one biography of Martin Luther, by the way. Your post was kind of rude. :o
 
spoiltvictorian said:
I’d also like to read specifically about the changes Luther is supposed to have made to Bible translations. Would you please at least recommend a specific book that discusses that topic if you don’t have a website at hand?

I am sure JonNC has read at least one biography of Martin Luther, by the way. Your post was kind of rude. :o
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A great big Amen to that!!!
 
tweetymom said:
In my humble oponion it is rude , and so what if she goes to Church or not? Does that make a difference in her walk with God?
I really don’t care what you are or who you claim to be and I don’t need any clues words speak volumnes!
And as far as an arguement goes it is not I who is always looking for an arguement!
I really have a hard time God wants holier than thou people to speak for Him. If you meet any maybe you can tell them that!
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It is best when poorly Catechized Catholics insist that it really doesn’t matter if one attends church or not. I would think you as a Catholic, would know how important the church really is. It is apparent that you don’t. Why such anger since these posts aren’t even directed to you? Do you fight with all your fellow Catholics?
 
spoiltvictorian said:
I’d also like to read specifically about the changes Luther is supposed to have made to Bible translations. Would you please at least recommend a specific book that discusses that topic if you don’t have a website at hand?

I am sure JonNC has read at least one biography of Martin Luther, by the way. Your post was kind of rude. :o
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Rude? to ask him to read a biography of the very man whom leads his church astray? Hardly. Not everyone gets to read Luther’s biography because if they have, it clearly states how he was in error. Calling the Epistle of St. Jude “a bundle of hay” and to “throw it overboard” as states in his biography would have some sort of an effect on me if I were Lutheran. Don’t ya think?
 
OneTrueCathApos said:
It is best when poorly Catechized Catholics insist that it really doesn’t matter if one attends church or not. I would think you as a Catholic, would know how important the church really is. It is apparent that you don’t. Why such anger since these posts aren’t even directed to you? Do you fight with all your fellow Catholics?
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I am not fighting with you and I am not the only person on this thread and others I have been on that think you are rude to people. I am a true believer in going to Church. But I also believe it is up to Janet or whoever to decide on their own what to do ar where to go.
I attend Mass ever Sat. But I don’t judge others who never attend That is between them and God.
And I can answer any post directed at me or not. I am only trying to help someone who has been bashed by others.
 
I agree, but you’re wasting your time Tweetymom. OTCA revels in her rudeness and arrogance. She’s never wrong. Even when she is. If you’re not Catholic and disagree with her, you’re a heretic to her. If you are Catholic, then you aren’t a very good one to her. And if you push her on statements and show her evidence that you’re wrong, then you are stalking her.

That’s her modus operandi. Learn from the cycle the rest of us have; it makes it easier to take her with a grain of salt.
 
I just have two observations here that I think are rather obvious, but are being overlooked.
  1. When, and if someone attends church is not the topic of the thread.
  2. Jesus says…Where two or more are gathered in my name, I am with them.
I don’t remember any verse in the Bible that says…Go to the building at 5th and Main, and I’ll be there.

Just a couple of observations.

We now return you to our regular programming. 😃
 
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