Too bad. Hearing Holy Absolution for a pastor/confessor often lifts a burden from my shoulders.
The power of the keys, to bind and loose, is pretty clear in scripture.
Jon
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The power of the keys, to bind and loose, is pretty clear in scripture.
Jon
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phil19034
Guest
This is why Tradition (with a capital T) is so important. The Bible itself says that not all of God’s Words, Miracles, Deeds, etc are in Bible.
Let me ask a question of simple logic:
Medical Doctors are supposed to be doctors of the physical body, correct? Clergy (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish, etc) are supposed to be doctors of the soul, correct? God is the creator of all things, the source of all knowledge, correct?
Can someone become an expert Medical Doctor by simply reading books? Or do they need to be mentored by their elders? They need to be mentored. They need to learn from the experiences and testimonies which are not written in the medical text books. God didn’t make it that easy to become a Doctor of the Physical Body. (God also didn’t make it that easy to become a carpenter, blacksmith, business man, etc.)
So why would you believe that all you have to do is read one Book to receive all of God’s teachings and Grace? Especially, when that Book itself says that not all of Jesus’ Words, Deeds, etc are in it? If the Bible was to contain all that was needed, why would Jesus bother to train his Apostles in how to run his Church and administer the Sacraments before is Ascension?
If God made it very difficult to become a Doctor of Medicine, why would it be relativity “easier” to become a Doctor of the Soul?
The answer: He didn’t.
Jesus was always training his Apostles. In a way, He was running the first Catholic Seminary. During His earthly Ministry and during the 40 Days after the Resurrection, He was teaching His Apostles how to run the Church. Before His Crucifixion, He had the Holy Spirit grant them the ability to perform the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Then on the Pentecost, the Holy Spirit confirmed upon them the Sacrament of Holy Orders. The Bible was written to reinforce the Oral Teachings of Christ. Not to replace the Oral Teachings. There is a reason why the Orthodox Church believes Tradition alone runs the Church and that the Bible is PART of that Tradition. (NOTE: Catholics believe that the Bible and Tradition together are the basis of the Church).
The Sacraments are real. They are not manmade or symbolic. They were created by Christ Himself.
One last “food for thought”…. Have you ever confessed your sins to God? Have you ever confessed your sins to a Priest in Confession?
I’ve done both. And to be honest with you, it’s a lot easier to confess them directly to God. When I confess through a Priest, I really feel the shame of my sins. And what comes out of my mouth is very sincere and heartfelt. I have cried during confession and I have felt the weight of the world lifted from me when receiving Absolution from the Priest. Jesus could have had us continue to ask for Atonement directly to God, like the Jews did once a year on the Day of Atonement. But He didn’t. Confession is the Sacrament where the Doctors of the Soul (Priests) cleans our Souls and help use FEEL God’s Mercy and Love. I used to not think Confession was needed and that I could pray my sins directly to God. But then at 36, I was brought back to Faith and attended my first Confession in over 20 years. It was more powerful and I really FELT God’s Love and Divine Mercy.
Yes, the Sacraments are real and Confession and Absolution are real and Powerful because Jesus made it so.
God Bless.
O
oldgraymare2
Guest
I agree with the bottom part of phil19034’s post, where I have definitely felt a “weight lifted” after I have gone to confession.
When you go to a priest, you also know that you are going to be held accountable too to another person, if you will. I look forward to going too in the sense that I usually receive some kind of counsel from the priest–some kind of help and guidance, that I find to be really spiritually beneficial to me.
When you go to a priest, you also know that you are going to be held accountable too to another person, if you will. I look forward to going too in the sense that I usually receive some kind of counsel from the priest–some kind of help and guidance, that I find to be really spiritually beneficial to me.
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pablope
Guest
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KathleenGee
Guest
Problem is Christ did not institute individual Lone Rangers.
Christ instituted His Church through Peter and the Apostles.
Christ is calling us to be His Church, and enjoy full benefit of being in His Church, not be confused, not be dependent on ourselves, and to have certitude in faith that we are truly receiving the fullness of the deposit of faith in Who Christ is and What He is calling us to be and what to do to gain eternal life with Him. And with each other.
Just as God is love and His very nature calls out for relationship, likewise we as Church echo God’s divine nature.
We are called to be part of the Church He instituted for us. The Church is all set up for us. We don’t have to second guess or be in confusion or look for other answers through dubious sources.
Christ is big enough and powerful enough to allow sinful weak men to run His Church and likewise represent Him as intercessors to forgive sin.
Being sociable and communal is reflecting what we are: social human beings. So it is also very therapeutic to experience absolution’s grace, clearly not sourced in the human priest, but Christ working through him, a very powerful experience every time.
And secondly, this opening up and hearing advice and comments before another human being takes us out of our own personal limitation and affirms the role of neighbor whose purpose is to help in Christ’s grace, to purify us and make us aware of our blind spots. But not to condemn, but to perfect our faults that lead us to sin, and instead call upon Christ and His strength and life
When we open up to the grace of Christ in the sacrament of confession, our imperfections are filled with the life of Christ, and we become more and more fully who we are called to be in Christ in faith through life in the Church, rather than depending on our own personal judgment of self – whether they gloss over our imperfections and sins (sin of presumption), or the other extreme,the sin of despair – of self-condemnation and not trusting in God’s goodness and forgiveness.
Christ instituted His Church through Peter and the Apostles.
Christ is calling us to be His Church, and enjoy full benefit of being in His Church, not be confused, not be dependent on ourselves, and to have certitude in faith that we are truly receiving the fullness of the deposit of faith in Who Christ is and What He is calling us to be and what to do to gain eternal life with Him. And with each other.
Just as God is love and His very nature calls out for relationship, likewise we as Church echo God’s divine nature.
We are called to be part of the Church He instituted for us. The Church is all set up for us. We don’t have to second guess or be in confusion or look for other answers through dubious sources.
Christ is big enough and powerful enough to allow sinful weak men to run His Church and likewise represent Him as intercessors to forgive sin.
Being sociable and communal is reflecting what we are: social human beings. So it is also very therapeutic to experience absolution’s grace, clearly not sourced in the human priest, but Christ working through him, a very powerful experience every time.
And secondly, this opening up and hearing advice and comments before another human being takes us out of our own personal limitation and affirms the role of neighbor whose purpose is to help in Christ’s grace, to purify us and make us aware of our blind spots. But not to condemn, but to perfect our faults that lead us to sin, and instead call upon Christ and His strength and life
When we open up to the grace of Christ in the sacrament of confession, our imperfections are filled with the life of Christ, and we become more and more fully who we are called to be in Christ in faith through life in the Church, rather than depending on our own personal judgment of self – whether they gloss over our imperfections and sins (sin of presumption), or the other extreme,the sin of despair – of self-condemnation and not trusting in God’s goodness and forgiveness.
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Nicea325
Guest
Exactly! As the old saying goes:
A book cannot teach on its own, a teacher is required.
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Tom_Baum
Guest
Aren’t we all called to be “middle men and women” since Jesus is not physically here?Here’s an interesting log to throw on the fire…
If she (whoever “she” is) is all bent out of shape about “the middle man”, why did Jesus say to Peter in John 21:15-17;
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me? " and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, “Feed my sheep.”???
Color, bold, underline added.
Why does Jesus need a “middle man” to watch us and teach us until He comes again? Can’t Jesus just do it Himself? What can Peter do that Jesus can’t? Why would Jesus leave Peter of all people in charge?
Jus’ sayin’…
Jesus asked us, not just Peter to do it, when He said, “there is work to be done”, as I said since Jesus is not physically here, makes sense, doesn’t it?
Jesus was speaking of when Peter would be walking on the planet and Jesus wouldn’t be, at least not in a physical sense, since we are now walking on the planet, Jesus asks us.
Jesus called Peter to be a rock (living stone), doesn’t Jesus also call us to be living stones in the building of Jesus’s Church referred to as the Body of Christ?
Could be said that someone had to be the first rock after the foundation (Jesus) was set.
By the way, Jesus said, “Feed MY lambs”, “Tend MY sheep”, Feed MY sheep", we are not only JESUS’s lambs and sheep but we are to feed each other, also in the progression, we go from lambs to sheep as in growing, it is not just three affirmations to cover three negations as some people look at this.
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LennyFL
Guest
The scripture in John are referring to the deciples not just the apostles. Wouldn’t that change things. We are all deciples of Christ are we not? So is this saying if a priest dosnt forgive you, you are not forgiven? How does all this work?
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Good points…and yes, we, both male and female, extend Christ’s priesthood into the Church by actively connecting our lives with each other, opening with each other to admit our failings, and knowing each other’s support and forgiveness.
Both male and female extend Christ’s priesthood into the world as well, forgiving our neighbor and growing in relationship with him.
Yes, the Church is living stones of the foundation, Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the Vine of the Church and we are His branches.
This sacramental Church likewise reflects as well the tremendous and perfect humility of Our Lord, sharing His ministry through His ministers and extended into the discipleship of the laity.
We all share in the Lord’s ministry of healing, forgiveness, reconciliation.
Both male and female extend Christ’s priesthood into the world as well, forgiving our neighbor and growing in relationship with him.
Yes, the Church is living stones of the foundation, Jesus Christ.
Jesus is the Vine of the Church and we are His branches.
This sacramental Church likewise reflects as well the tremendous and perfect humility of Our Lord, sharing His ministry through His ministers and extended into the discipleship of the laity.
We all share in the Lord’s ministry of healing, forgiveness, reconciliation.
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FabiusMaximus
Guest
I don’t really understand how her argument makes any sense.
By her logic then what’s the point of a church? Why not just worship God on your own time at home? After all, isn’t the pastor then becoming a pesky middle man?
The priest, at any rate, from what I understand, isn’t a “middleman” but is acting* in persona Christi*, so when you do make a confession you are making a confession directly to Christ himself.
K
KathleenGee
Guest
Yes and if we don’t need the priesthood, then we didn’t need the apostles either.
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MartinJordan
Guest
:clapping:
MJ
MJ
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rfournier103
Guest
The last part that I bolded was rhetorical in nature. I don’t want anyone thinking that these are MY questions… I’m just trying to make a point.Here’s an interesting log to throw on the fire…
If she (whoever “she” is) is all bent out of shape about “the middle man”, why did Jesus say to Peter in John 21:15-17;
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He then said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord, you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me? " and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” (Jesus) said to him, “Feed my sheep.”???
Color, bold, underline added.
Why does Jesus need a “middle man” to watch us and teach us until He comes again? Can’t Jesus just do it Himself? What can Peter do that Jesus can’t? Why would Jesus leave Peter of all people in charge?
Jus’ sayin’…
J
Judas_Thaddeus
Guest
Of course she does. http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj557/Miss__Priss/emotions/RollingEyesSmiley5.gif
Ask her which she used in her Bible at John 20:23: Whiteout or Permanent Marker.OR NOT!
Let me refer you to Sean Mcveigh, he’s sure a smart cookie.
youtube.com/watch?v=tUMPBCM4Vpoyoutube.com/watch?v=PRJFM5k83CA
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Pretty sure many Catholics can relate to his early experience with Confession. I know I can. Thanks for posting, first time I heard him.Let me refer you to Sean Mcveigh, he’s sure a smart cookie.
youtube.com/watch?v=PRJFM5k83CA
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rfournier103
Guest
Jame 5:14-16 says…
Is anyone among you sick? He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord, and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up. If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.
What is a “presbyter”? This is from www.dictionary.com/:
**pres·by·ter [prez-bi-ter, pres-] **
noun
- (in the early Christian church) an **office bearer **who exercised teaching, priestly, and administrative functions.
- (in hierarchical churches) a priest.
- an elder in a Presbyterian church.
This shows a post-Resurrection case of sin-forgiveness AND the need for/allowance of a PRIESTHOOD.
One thing the above passage does NOT say is that anyone who is sick should pray ALONE. Can a layman administer this Sacrament? No. It requires a priest.
The problem with Christians is that we all interpret Scripture differently. Very sad.
There are those out there who reject 2,000 years of Catholic theology in favor of theology concocted a few hundred years ago (mind you, we ALL have access to the same source materials); or get their interpretations from someone who might have started his church/ministry out of his dad’s garage (or something like that)…
I own a Bible, and I know how to read; so therefore I COULD start my own non-denominational “church” and preach on Sunday, couldn’t I? I could rent a hall for a few hours on Sunday, read whatever passages I felt like, and then give anyone nice enough to show up my opinion of what I just read to them.
Too bad this doesn’t jive with Scripture…
If I am not mistaken; doesn’t **1 Peter 1:20-21 **say… **Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God. **
**Acts 8:27-31 **also says… So he got up and set out. Now there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of the Candace, that is, the queen of the Ethiopians, in charge of her entire treasury, who had come to Jerusalem to worship, and was returning home. Seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah. The Spirit said to Philip, “Go and join up with that chariot.” Philip ran up and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and said, “Do you understand what you are reading?” He replied, “How can I, unless someone instructs me?” So he invited Philip to get in and sit with him.
Bold added.
So… are we ALL qualified to preach on Sunday and interpret Scripture? If we are ALL guided by the Holy Spirit, why do some Christians interpret differently than others? Has Mr. Jones at the Main Street Bible Chapel spent years at the seminary? Has he studied Scripture the same way as Fr. Jones at St. Cletus Parish has?
My guess is NO.
Peace
S
Simca
Guest
I think even in the Old Testament, in a round about way, they confessed to the Priest.
They brought their sin offering before the priest, laid their hands on it, and then confessed their sin.
Even though it wasn’t the priest who officially forgave them, he was sure a big part of the ceremony.
They brought their sin offering before the priest, laid their hands on it, and then confessed their sin.
Even though it wasn’t the priest who officially forgave them, he was sure a big part of the ceremony.
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phil19034
Guest
Amen!
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rfournier103
Guest
I’d love to hear cguerber weigh in on post # 36.
C
cguerber
Guest
Yes, we have different beliefs. I’m not going to get into a battle of words, meanings, religion, etc. I’m not looking for a fight. You have your beliefs and that’s ok. And I have mine. Let us move on in peace!
God bless,
CG
God bless,
CG
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