Protestant: Emotional Barriers

[Craisin]

Hello,
I am a Protestant currently exploring the Catholic and Orthodox faiths.

Recently, I’ve been considering whether or not to return to the Catholic Church, or to join the Orthodox Church. I have just begun research on both Churches, so in no way have an in depth understanding but merely a surface level understanding. I have read “Rome Sweet Home” by Hahn and “Faith of our Fathers” by Gibbons, and get into in depth conversations with my Roman Catholic boyfriend and Orthodox brother. I am also currently reading “The Orthodox Church”.

Much of what Hahn and Gibbons talked about makes logical sense to me; especially when it comes to the historical “proof” of the Eucharist, the understanding of the Apostolic Church, etc (although not Papal Authority). If I read through Protestant examples of how these topics are not “scriptural”, then for me the “proof” that the Bible was written by man but dictated by God, and the books of the Bible were put together by an Ecumenical council, always provide a valid reason for why the Scriptures are infallible teachings in the first place.

So, my struggles over the RCC and Orthodox Church are not logical barriers; rather, they are spiritual and emotional. Growing up in the RCC, I had a very poor priest and inefficient teachers. Needless to say, I did not have a very good understanding of Christ (whom is necessary to understand in order to understand EVERYTHING ELSE within the faith). However, my Protestant friends were very expressive and introduced me to my faith at age 17. Although not extremely logical, they were ‘living out’ their faith values much much moreso than that of any Catholics I knew.

Despite the disunity and the simplicity of the Protestant churches, one of the things that I love about them is their ability to express their love and gratitude for the Lord, unashamedly. Although some Protestant’s enthusiasm can be condemning and even hateful towards certain groups of people (particularly fundementalists), I have only personally known loving, caring people who still have a stronger desire to read their Bibles, pray together, etc. This being said, it is difficult for me to fully believe that the RCC (or Orthodox Church) is the fullness of God if the people within the Church are not living the life of faith.

Also, it can seem like the Catholic Church only allows for Scriptures to be read and interpretted by authority figures in the Church (please, correct me if I’m wrong.) However, this complete loss of “personal” faith scares me - for I charish reading my Bible and understanding how certain aspects read on God’s character relate to my own life. Can a woman be fully used as a servant of God? Certainly, look at Esther. Does God have one call for me in my life, or can He change it? Look at Abraham and Isaac - God called him to sacrifice His son, but told him at the VERY LAST minute not to! It is these types of stories in the Bible which God has always spoke to me in my life to reveal characteristics about Himself, showing that He is present and real and moving in my life - personally. If I became Catholic or Orthodox, would it be wrong for me then to read the Bible in this way? So why does it feel sometimes like Catholics only read the Bible by how the Church interprets it? Don’t they believe that God is with them personally - ESPECIALLY since they believe in both the Holy Spirit AND the Holy Eucharist?

Sometimes it can feel like the difference between Martha and Mary in Luke 10 - although, I think it is rather beautiful how many people, including my boyfriend, go to Eucharistic Adoration. In that sense, they are being Mary in Luke 10. And they are loving the Lord. I wish sometimes though, that when Catholics talk about their faith, it wouldn’t just be about reason - but about how much they ADORE God…because if Catholicism or Orthodoxy is truly the fullness of God, I should be seeing even a greater amount of joy and love and spiritual fruit coming out of those churches over the Protestant churches, right?

side note: I don’t mean to be condemning in any of this, I am merely just struggling over these issues…

 

[Belle10]

So, my struggles over the RCC and Orthodox Church are not logical barriers; rather, they are spiritual and emotional. Growing up in the RCC, I had a very poor priest and inefficient teachers. Needless to say, I did not have a very good understanding of Christ (whom is necessary to understand in order to understand EVERYTHING ELSE within the faith). However, my Protestant friends were very expressive and introduced me to my faith at age 17. Although not extremely logical, they were ‘living out’ their faith values much much moreso than that of any Catholics I knew.

Despite the disunity and the simplicity of the Protestant churches, one of the things that I love about them is their ability to express their love and gratitude for the Lord, unashamedly. Although some Protestant’s enthusiasm can be condemning and even hateful towards certain groups of people (particularly fundementalists), I have only personally known loving, caring people who still have a stronger desire to read their Bibles, pray together, etc. This being said, it is difficult for me to fully believe that the RCC (or Orthodox Church) is the fullness of God if the people within the Church are not living the life of faith.

Hi Craisin, I’m Belle

I think what you’ve touched upon here is an important point: we should all be living a life of faith in action. However, just because you might not see someone doing that, that doesn’t mean they aren’t. Many people are private about their faith, not out of shame, but out of reverence. I happen to be more outspoken myself, but some people are quieter.

Also, we all need to remember that the truth of Jesus, as He gave to the apostles which is the RCC, isn’t dependent upon our feelings about it. I know for many people, they need/want to feel God, and then they’ll praise Him. They expect that every time they worship they should feel that rush of the Holy Spirit. However, some people never feel these things – but that does not change the fact that Jesus is actually present in the Holy Eucharist or that the Holy Spirit moves within us when we are focused on God at Mass or adoration.

In any group you will find people who are just going through the motions and aren’t really living out the faith, but you’ll also find people on fire for God. What you should try to do, if I might suggest it, is turn your focus away from other people and toward God in the RCC. You will find Him.

Also, it can seem like the Catholic Church only allows for Scriptures to be read and interpretted by authority figures in the Church (please, correct me if I’m wrong.) However, this complete loss of “personal” faith scares me - for I charish reading my Bible and understanding how certain aspects read on God’s character relate to my own life.

We read the Bible and we follow what the church teaches regarding many things. When we read certain passages we can certainly take the “lesson” and try to apply it to our own lives in a practical way – we should do that so we can grow closer to God! (For example: when I pray the Rosary and meditate on the mysteries, in addition to meditating on the mystery itself, I also try to relate each mystery to my life. Take the 4th of the sorrowful mysteries, the carrying of the cross. I try to picture Jesus carrying the cross and remember His great love and abandoning of His will to God’s, and try to recognize that I need to carry my crosses in life the same way.)

If we are unsure about the message of a passage, we should learn church teaching on it – not so that the church will “control” us or “take away” our personal faith, but to HELP us in our faith walk. We believe that Jesus instituted His church and started it with Peter, and from there on throughout the ages He has guided it and enlightened people to explain to others His truth. Just as we believe sacred scripture to be the true and unchanging word of God, we believe He has given us the gift of His church to help understand it. Does that make sense?

I hope this helps a little. Keep studying and praying.

 

[fhansen]

Hi Craisin, I’m Belle

I think what you’ve touched upon here is an important point: we should all be living a life of faith in action. However, just because you might not see someone doing that, that doesn’t mean they aren’t. Many people are private about their faith, not out of shame, but out of reverence. I happen to be more outspoken myself, but some people are quieter.

Also, we all need to remember that the truth of Jesus, as He gave to the apostles which is the RCC, isn’t dependent upon our feelings about it. I know for many people, they need/want to feel God, and then they’ll praise Him. They expect that every time they worship they should feel that rush of the Holy Spirit. However, some people never feel these things – but that does not change the fact that Jesus is actually present in the Holy Eucharist or that the Holy Spirit moves within us when we are focused on God at Mass or adoration.

In any group you will find people who are just going through the motions and aren’t really living out the faith, but you’ll also find people on fire for God. What you should try to do, if I might suggest it, is turn your focus away from other people and toward God in the RCC. You will find Him.

We read the Bible and we follow what the church teaches regarding many things. When we read certain passages we can certainly take the “lesson” and try to apply it to our own lives in a practical way – we should do that so we can grow closer to God! (For example: when I pray the Rosary and meditate on the mysteries, in addition to meditating on the mystery itself, I also try to relate each mystery to my life. Take the 4th of the sorrowful mysteries, the carrying of the cross. I try to picture Jesus carrying the cross and remember His great love and abandoning of His will to God’s, and try to recognize that I need to carry my crosses in life the same way.)

If we are unsure about the message of a passage, we should learn church teaching on it – not so that the church will “control” us or “take away” our personal faith, but to HELP us in our faith walk. We believe that Jesus instituted His church and started it with Peter, and from there on throughout the ages He has guided it and enlightened people to explain to others His truth. Just as we believe sacred scripture to be the true and unchanging word of God, we believe He has given us the gift of His church to help understand it. Does that make sense?

I hope this helps a little. Keep studying and praying.

Hi, Craisin
Catholicism can seem authoritative-because it is. But it’s an authority which we come to love and cherish because we recognize it as the authority to know and teach the truth about God. Coming to believe this is like coming to believe in the authority of the bible and is a work of the Holy Spirit. Protestants who are unashamed of their love for God would add much to the Church which none were ever meant to depart from to begin with. Pray and continue to study with the open-mindedness you already have and God will lead you back to the original fold.

 

[fhansen]

Hi, Craisin
Catholicism can seem authoritative because it is. But it is an authority which we come to love and cherish because we believe it is the authority to know and teach the truth about God. Coming to believe in the authority of the Church is like coming to believe in the authority of the bible and is a work of the Holy Spirit. Protestants who are unashamed of their faith would add much to the Church which none were ever meant to depart from to begin with. Pray and continue to study with the open-mindedness you already have and God will lead you back to home-base.

 

[thomasf]

Echoing what Belle says, being faithful and on fire for the Lord does not always require being obvious and showy about it. There is a difference between catholics and protestants that boils down to reverence. In Mass, the Lord is present physically in the Eucharist and we behave in a more reserved manner in respect for Him. Protestants don’t believe He is physically there with them in any form, spiritually maybe, and are often more showy and outward with their faith. Neither is particularly bad, or good. It’s just a difference. This spills over into the rest of their faith lives.

So many catholics aren’t as outward and obvious with their faith lives because they have a reverential attitude towards their faith. They might be very devout and faithful, but this shows up in private and in personal ways. That doesn’t mean they don’t love the lord or aren’t living out their faith or aren’t good christians. My grandparents would pray together each night the rosary and other prayers, spent time doing church and community work, and gave a lot of time and effort and money to their church, and were very devout catholics. But they never talked about it or made it obvious. They would tell you about it if you asked, but they just did these things out of love for God and their faith without being obvious. And to those who knew them, and saw them do this, they were great examples.

Another aspect to consider is the difference in beliefs in what a christian is, and how to become a christian. Ask a protestant how to become a christian and they’ll tell you that you’ve got to ‘accept Jesus’ and probably will offer to pray with you on the spot for you to ‘accept Jesus’ and become christian. And that’s it, once you accept Him you’re good to go. So of course, they’re going to be more open and willing to stop people on the street to tell them about Jesus, because they can convert you on the spot and win souls, etc. See ‘The way of the master’ type videos for more of that.

Ask a catholic how to become a catholic christian and they’ll probably sit you down, talk to you about the faith, what we believe, and send you on to a priest who’ll send you on to RCIA classes for a year for preparation. There’s much more to the catholic faith than just ‘accepting Jesus’ and converting you on the spot. That doesn’t mean you won’t get catholics who aren’t loud and proud about their faith, there are plenty of those. It’s just a different mind set.

And as far as reading the bible and listening to the church’s authority on matters of the bible. The church rules difinitively on very few passages in the bible. For the most part the faithful are open to read and interpret the bible for themselves. But the difference is, in the protestant religions you’ll get thousands of different interpretations of the bible which all carry the authority of the interpreter. What do you do when your interpretation conflicts with mine? In the catholic faith, we are free to read and interpret and ask for the inspiration of the holy spirit of the scriptures, but in the end our interpretations and beliefs must match up with the general teachings of the catholic church. Why? Because Jesus gave the church the authority to teach the faith infallibly and truthfully. The difference is in protestantism everyone is the infallible authority. In catholicism, the church is the one truth and authority. As St Paul says.

Hello,

Sometimes it can feel like the difference between Martha and Mary in Luke 10 - although, I think it is rather beautiful how many people, including my boyfriend, go to Eucharistic Adoration. In that sense, they are being Mary in Luke 10. And they are loving the Lord. I wish sometimes though, that when Catholics talk about their faith, it wouldn’t just be about reason - but about how much they ADORE God…because if Catholicism or Orthodoxy is truly the fullness of God, I should be seeing even a greater amount of joy and love and spiritual fruit coming out of those churches over the Protestant churches, right?

This is a contradiction. You just said that it’s great that your bf goes to adoration and prays before the Lord as Mary did in Luke. Then you criticize catholics for not talking about how they ADORE God? Taking an hour out of your life to spend with God in person IS demonstrating how much they adore God. It can’t get any more dedicated than that.

I think that really what you need to do is to try to understand that catholics do demonstrate their love and devotion to God and Jesus, but in our own way. It is not fair to try to hold catholics to a protestant type of worship. You must understand the differences, both the what and why, and not hold catholics to a standard they don’t necessarily follow.

 

[water]

Thank you Thomas for your great responding.

I’d like to add what St. Therese said:
“All my strength lies in prayer and sacrifice. They are my invincible weapons, and I know, by experience, that they can soften the heart much better than words.”

 

[Craisin]

This is a contradiction. You just said that it’s great that your bf goes to adoration and prays before the Lord as Mary did in Luke. Then you criticize catholics for not talking about how they ADORE God? Taking an hour out of your life to spend with God in person IS demonstrating how much they adore God. It can’t get any more dedicated than that.

I think that really what you need to do is to try to understand that catholics do demonstrate their love and devotion to God and Jesus, but in our own way. It is not fair to try to hold catholics to a protestant type of worship. You must understand the differences, both the what and why, and not hold catholics to a standard they don’t necessarily follow.

I apologize for being critical. There are definately some negative stereotypes on Catholics that I hold still from my past (and I am not justifying this as being ok). It do commend the Eucharistic adoration as being being like Mary in Luke 10.

However, I don’t think only solitude before the Lord is how every Catholic is called to live. I also think it may be a generalization to call Protestant worship as loud and Catholic worship as living only a solitude filled life - it seems strange to me that Catholics always view Protestants as too ‘personal’ with the Lord, when I’ve found that the Catholics can also tend to be too ‘personal’ in the sense that they focus so much on solitude that I rarely hear them emphasizing community and ministry. Shouldn’t these result from solitude with the Lord? And what about the communion of saints, worshiping together with the angels?

Lastly, are there not charismatic Catholic churches? Would you say they have more of a “Protestant” style of worship, then?

 

[Craisin]

Also, we all need to remember that the truth of Jesus, as He gave to the apostles which is the RCC, isn’t dependent upon our feelings about it. I know for many people, they need/want to feel God, and then they’ll praise Him. They expect that every time they worship they should feel that rush of the Holy Spirit. However, some people never feel these things – but that does not change the fact that Jesus is actually present in the Holy Eucharist or that the Holy Spirit moves within us when we are focused on God at Mass or adoration.

In any group you will find people who are just going through the motions and aren’t really living out the faith, but you’ll also find people on fire for God. What you should try to do, if I might suggest it, is turn your focus away from other people and toward God in the RCC. You will find Him.

I understand what you mean when you say many people need/want to feel God before they’ll praise him - this is why I appreciate the liturgy at my Anglican Church, because it shows me that God is still the same God, even if though I don’t feel Him that day, and He is still worthy of our praise.

As for the focusing away from other people and turning towards God, I find this difficult to do. First, because I feel like people, being made in the image of God, reflect the glory of God. Secondly, because it is necessary for me to see fruit of the Spirit being produced. If there is no fruit, then does the vine really dwell within?

 

[water]

However, I don’t think only solitude before the Lord is how every Catholic is called to live.

Hi Craisin,

Not every Catholic is called to be in solitude. Many Catholics are called to work with the sick, the homeless, the dying; there are others who evangelize at Abortion clinic, clinics out of countries, etc.

There are others who are called to do works without much of mentioning Christ at all time, and people do convert to Catholics by seeing the love that these Catholics have for them. Check out some of the people whom I know are working with the people in the photos ( warning: picture of lepers): nguoicui.net/gallery/ – in some places, the entire village of lepers convert to Catholic.

There are also those Legion Of Mary members go door to door too!

 

[thomasf]

I apologize for being critical. There are definately some negative stereotypes on Catholics that I hold still from my past (and I am not justifying this as being ok). It do commend the Eucharistic adoration as being being like Mary in Luke 10.

However, I don’t think only solitude before the Lord is how every Catholic is called to live. I also think it may be a generalization to call Protestant worship as loud and Catholic worship as living only a solitude filled life - it seems strange to me that Catholics always view Protestants as too ‘personal’ with the Lord, when I’ve found that the Catholics can also tend to be too ‘personal’ in the sense that they focus so much on solitude that I rarely hear them emphasizing community and ministry. Shouldn’t these result from solitude with the Lord? And what about the communion of saints, worshiping together with the angels?

Lastly, are there not charismatic Catholic churches? Would you say they have more of a “Protestant” style of worship, then?

Solitude is your word. My word was reverence. And no, not every catholic has a private life of worship. There are many very public catholic apostolates that emphasize evangelization and a very public spreading of the Word of God. But there are also people who just go out and serve and do their thing and set examples and are very holy people. Evangelization isn’t just talking about God and Jesus and trying to convert people. Evangelization is setting examples, bearing fruit, etc. Like St Francis is often quoted for saying, “Evangelize always. When necessary, use words.” For many catholics, this sums up their faith. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Once again I’ll point you to the differences between catholics and protestants. Many protestants reject the idea of “working out their faith in fear and trembling” as St Paul says. Many protestants reject the idea that we can do anything to effect our salvation. And so they don’t emphasize the things that you can do to further your own salvation. They spend more time trying to convert and save others and make their faith a very public thing. Catholics have a different understanding, and spend a lot of time doing the things that bring us God’s grace to effect transformation and further salvation. Including a lot of private prayer, works, and acts of mercy. Which leads to more of a private faith life.

As far as community and minitry go, there are a lot of community programs and ministries open to us at our parish. And I take part in what I can. But they are more works related, more designed to do the things Christ asks of us all. The catholic church has done more for civilization, and has more emphasis on social service and equality than any other faith. There is a lot of community and lay ministry stuff that catholics do that you’ll probably never hear. I don’t talk about the things I do unless asked, or if I’m inviting other catholics to come. I do them for the love of God and service to my fellow men, not to gain acclaim or praise. And I honestly fear talking about them in fear of bringing pride and boasting into something I intend to offer to God.

Like I said earlier, you keep looking for protestant values and activities in the catholic church. You’re not necessarily going to find them.

As far as charismatics go, you’re asking the wrong guy.

 

[thomasf]

There’s a bible passage that is usually read on Ash Weds that I really like. It’s from Matthew 6. Verses 1-6 and then 16-18.

"(But) take care not to perform righteous deeds in order that people may see them; otherwise, you will have no recompense from your heavenly Father.
2
When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
3
But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing,
4
so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
5
“When you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, who love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on street corners so that others may see them. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
6
But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.”

16
“When you fast, 12 do not look gloomy like the hypocrites. They neglect their appearance, so that they may appear to others to be fasting. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward.
17
But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
18
so that you may not appear to be fasting, except to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees what is hidden will repay you.”

When I came back to mass it was on an Ash Weds. I had decided to come back to the catholic chuch because the protestant faiths I had been looking into seemed too “showy” to me. This reading at my first mass back spoke to me particularly and let me know that I was indeed making the right decision.

 

[catheflower]

Hi Craisin,
I left the RC church for Protestant (Episcopal) years ago. As I explained in my introduction, I wandered through a few different denominations. I wound up at the RC church b/c I was lonely for a romantic relationship. I met my husband at a young adult group.

I disaffiliated from my Episcopal diocese and Unitarian Universalist Assocation. I was married as a Roman Catholic. Still, though, I yearn for some things Protestant that I’m just not getting from my RC diocese.

I, too, long to see RCs with a strong desire to show how happy they are to be in church. It is very hard to want to go to a church that feels like a McService rather than a beautiful mass. I’m thinking of the beautiful Melkite services I saw years ago. They are in communion with Rome, but yet, they treated the mass with so much love. I have a formally Methodist–>Anglican–>Antichoian Orthodox friend- I’m jealous of his church’s services. They put so much towards ancient, mystical tradition in their services. I love the intensity.

At the same time, I love the energy of many Protestant services. I’m a little jealous of a friend of mine, raised Lutheran Missouri Synod, who gets to go to a wonderful non-denom Protestant church. (I’m nearly in tears now b/c she gets so much out of her church.)

Craisin, I’m not sure what I’m going to do. I know I’m going to keep with my private Catholic devotions. But, as for worship, I’m not sure what I’m going to do. I’m struggling with this issue! I will keep you in my prayers!

In Christ,
Cathe

 

[Belle10]

As for the focusing away from other people and turning towards God, I find this difficult to do. First, because I feel like people, being made in the image of God, reflect the glory of God. Secondly, because it is necessary for me to see fruit of the Spirit being produced. If there is no fruit, then does the vine really dwell within?

One of the best ways you can show your love for Jesus is to adore Him in the Blessed Sacrament and receive Him in Holy Communion. These are both outwardly quiet things, but inwardly the soul is singing praises upon praises to Him!

Other posters have done a great job of pointing out that the Protestant mindset differs from the Catholic one, so we’re not starting from the same place. I can tell you though that if one is truly alive in their faith and rejoicing in it, they do perform works (fruits) that reflect the Father (the vine). What’s interesting is that the Protestant faiths teach that works aren’t necessary, yet you seem so bent on them here.

Hi Craisin,
I left the RC church for Protestant (Episcopal) years ago. As I explained in my introduction, I wandered through a few different denominations. I wound up at the RC church b/c I was lonely for a romantic relationship. I met my husband at a young adult group.

I disaffiliated from my Episcopal diocese and Unitarian Universalist Assocation. I was married as a Roman Catholic. Still, though, **I yearn for some things Protestant that I’m just not getting from my RC diocese. **

In the RCC, you receive the actual physical presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist – what more could you want?

I, too, long to see RCs with a strong desire to show how happy they are to be in church. It is very hard to want to go to a church that feels like a McService rather than a beautiful mass. I’m thinking of the beautiful Melkite services I saw years ago. They are in communion with Rome, but yet, they treated the mass with so much love. I have a formally Methodist–>Anglican–>Antichoian Orthodox friend- I’m jealous of his church’s services. They put so much towards ancient, mystical tradition in their services. I love the intensity.

There are plenty of people who ARE very happy to be at Mass, but many show it by being reverent before the actual presence of Jesus, not by being loud and outwardly excited. I sing loudly during Mass because it is praising God, but not everyone does. I’m OK with that, because I know we’re all different.

At the same time, I love the energy of many Protestant services. I’m a little jealous of a friend of mine, raised Lutheran Missouri Synod, who gets to go to a wonderful non-denom Protestant church. (I’m nearly in tears now b/c she gets so much out of her church.)

I’m sorry you’re jealous of your friend. It should be the other way around, because you can actually receive Jesus in communion, and that beats anything you find in a non-denom. church. I hope you’ll find your way back to the RCC. It seems like you’re hung up on feelings more than truth. Perhaps taking an RCIA class to refresh yourself with church teachings would help you find your way?

I’ll say a prayer for you. :hug1: God bless.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Hello Craisin,
may the peace of Jesus Christ be upon you.

First off, stop searching for a religion, that you feel will be right for you.

Religion follows faith and once you have faith, your will must be aligned with God’s will.

So, first and foremost, turn to Jesus Christ. Surrender your life to Him and allow Him to take over. “Let go and let God,” as the expression goes.

Christ will lead you to where He knows you will be able to grow closer to Him.

When I came back to the Catholic Church, it was the result of turning my life over to Jesus, after being inspired through a television evangelist. He didn’t bring me back to the Catholic Church, Christ did.

Without Christ as your focus, religion will either become boring and meaningless, or it can even become a stabling block for true spiritual growth, especially if you get wrapped up in rigid adherence to traditions and dogma mere understood on the intellectual level.

Some of the worse people I’ve met in my spiritual journey, have been Catholics who follow the teachings devoutly, and know doctrines and various rites thoroughly. What they don’t have is faith. They’ve never had a conversion heart to Christ.

As the author of the “Cloud of Unknowing” wrote, “God can not be grasped, except through love.” To have this love, you must surrender to Jesus, so that He can provide you with His transforming grace and you will learn to love, as He loves. Christ will lead you to the religion that He knows will bring you closer to Him.

So, the bottom line here is, turn to Jesus in prayer and watch what happens.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Joysong]

Jim,

Excellent post!

 

[Maxply]

Some odd thoughts for you:

I grew up in the post-Watergate/Jerry Falwell Moral Majority era. So I’m EXTREMELY shy about demonstrations religious emotion, the jump up and down stuff. I’m EXTREMELY wary of the equation you sometimes hear: that shouting for Jesus = Faith. And that church has to be a big group singalong.

I’d have to say that era made me just in general very timid about religion. The fundamentalists make me timid about being religious: I think the non-religious are very misled about Christianity by all the shouts, furor and calamities generated by loud Bible beaters.

For me, the NICE thing about the Catholic church is that it IS low-key.

Topping on the cake is its deep intellectual tradition; its willingness to study the deeper philosophical issues. . . some Protestants don’t even stop to discern many of these. Or they leave them up to untutored individuals, since to take a stand would cause further sect division.

Don’t let the word “authority” bother you. I’m assuming it does bother you. Most people have been raised to distrust authority, and of course, hidden in the feelings generated by the word are images and fear of Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia, the other dictators and fascists, as well as the Pilgrim fathers. If you’ve read through all this so far, let me toss this one out at you: CAN there be GOOD authority? Authority which is justified and actively working on your behalf?

In my book, I think church authority in doctrinal matters is a superb benefit: I do not have deep training in theology, nor the ability to study each particular issue. The experts do it for me, and I find that if I don’t like what they say, I can study their positions and learn. . . sometimes changing me in the process. But in most instances, when you read the Bible, I don’t believe the Catholic Church has every meaningful bit packaged for you.

Finally, in recent years I’ve done some bluegrassing, and you run across old “gospel” songs in that musical genre. To me “gospel music” always meant a choir of ecstatic urban black women singing some pretty groovy stuff. While, there’s a kind of white back country, gospel music, old-time stuff, that’s pretty powerful and inspirational and positive. I’d like to see this kind of stuff somehow in Catholic music. So I guess I’m coming around to saying that displays of emotional feeling are okay in a church context. . . but I’m still a bit guarded about that: wouldn’t want to lose the use of reason.

 

[catheflower]

Thanks Belle, Jim, and Max for your posts.

Belle, Especially thanks for telling me why my Protestant friend should be jealous of me. I know that we Catholics have the real presence of Jesus. I would never, ever again participate in a Protestant communion service!

I am definitely going to take everything you three said into consideration. I am feeling inspired to check out a local Melkite church. I added 2 services there a few years ago. I am also going to check out Byzantine Catholic as well.

After I initially responded to Craisin’s thread, I started feeling like I should remain in the Catholic church. Reading about Marian apparitions, spiritual warfare, rosary, and other Catholic posts stirred the Catholic yearning in my heart! I’ll keep everyone posted.

Craisin, I did not mean to hijack your thread! I will also be praying for you!

In Christ,
Cathe

 

[Belle10]

Thanks Belle, Jim, and Max for your posts.

Belle, Especially thanks for telling me why my Protestant friend should be jealous of me. I know that we Catholics have the real presence of Jesus. I would never, ever again participate in a Protestant communion service!

I am definitely going to take everything you three said into consideration. I am feeling inspired to check out a local Melkite church. I added 2 services there a few years ago. I am also going to check out Byzantine Catholic as well.

After I initially responded to Craisin’s thread, I started feeling like I should remain in the Catholic church. Reading about Marian apparitions, spiritual warfare, rosary, and other Catholic posts stirred the Catholic yearning in my heart! I’ll keep everyone posted.

Craisin, I did not mean to hijack your thread! I will also be praying for you!

In Christ,
Cathe

Cathe, so happy that you’re going to stay in the church. Sometimes we all just need a little encouragement from each other, right? I’ll remember you in my chaplet of Divine Mercy today (if you’re not familiar with it, check out my signature). God bless. :hug1:

 

[Andy_Corder]

Greetings Craisin!

As I read your challenges and questions, my heart went out to you. I grew up Southern Baptist and at one point was on the path to attend seminary and become an ordained minister in the Southern Baptist Church. I won’t share the details of my journey here, but through life’s experiences, found myself attending a Roman Catholic Church in order to learn more about it. I understand some of the challenges and faith obstacles you are dealing with. I had many, many long talks with a very sincere, Carmelite priest and eventually entered the RCIA program. I refused to take the final step and enter the church on Easter though, as I still had questions. I met with the pastor, and went through the RCIA program a second time the following year. The beautiful thing was that as long as I had a question, there was someone around I could talk to and discover the answer. Nobody pushed me for an on-the-spot decision, in fact when I shared with the RCIA director that I had quesitons still and was not sure I was ready to enter the church, she supported me in my decision.

I guess the bottom line I am trying to get to is this. Like one of the earlier posts said, stop trying to find a religion that feels good and instead focus on finding the will of God for you in your life. I have never quit learning since joining the Catholic Church 25 years ago. I finally accepted that, for me, the will of God was to convert to Catholicism and ever since then, it has been a joy-filled journey. One of the things that helped me tremendously was to find a spiritual mentor as I was exploring the church. One who could take the challenging questions I had and teach me the way the Catholic Church taught them, and then related that to the Bible. You may want to seek out such a mentor in your own life. Someone you can meet with over a cup of coffee and discuss the challenges you are dealing with.

I will lift you in prayer in your journey, and hope to follow you on the boards!

Andy

 

[losh14]

I admire you, Craisin. It takes a lot to put your intimate thoughts on your relationship with Christ and your religious expression of that relationship out here for all to see.

Emotion does play a part in the decisions we make. I grew up with excellent priests and have found community after community of Catholics who were really on fire for Christ, and the most ardent evangelicals who tried to convert me have often been too extreme for me. If it had been reversed I might be where you are now. Indeed, I firmly believe that people don’t reject theology as often as they reject a priest, minister or community leader who rubs them the wrong way. In fact, the bulk of the difficulties I’ve had lately with the Catholic Church (and I remain Catholic though I do struggle from time to time) have been because of priests who are poor speakers who don’t seem to care much. You really can tell the difference between a parish whose priest is apathetic and a parish with a priest who is really fully alive.

I think that any church, once it gets large enough, starts running into a related problem of apathetic parishoners. The only churches I’ve attended services at whose members are all on fire for Christ are really small churches with highly controlling pastors - in particular, there was a church affiliated with the ICOC in Springfield IL. It had about 120 members, and while I did Bible Study with one of the elders, he tried to exert an inappropriate degree of control over my life, including telling me that my girlfriend had to stay with his sister when she visited from out of state, that he would have to chaperone our dates, and that I would have to confess my sins daily to him.

So in the Catholic Church we are often large enough that some who attend are Catholic in name alone, they go to Mass, manage to stay awake and forget about it the other 6 days and 23 hours. This bothers me, and it bothers pretty much everyone else who cares about their faith and about Christ, but this is the unfortunate choice that many make.

At the same time, there are a great number of Catholics who are truly alive for Christ and you can see and feel this when you’re around them. It may help you to seek out parishes where the community is more alive and you can find nourishment in their spirit.

Also, it can seem like the Catholic Church only allows for Scriptures to be read and interpretted by authority figures in the Church (please, correct me if I’m wrong.) However, this complete loss of “personal” faith scares me

I understand your fear and I hope to put that fear to rest. Every church I’ve attended (and I’ve attended quite a few) has offered some guidance in reading the Bible and cautioned against some interepretations. This makes sense - if you take any five or six verses at random, you could get a really odd message out of it.

In the Catholic Church, I’ve never been told not to read my Bible. I’ve actually led Bible studies and, just like evangelical churches often use a Zondervan’s or Strong’s, I’ve used a diocesan study guide. I’ve always been told to read it in context, which makes sense - you’d agree that we can run into some problems if everything was taken literally (“If your eye causes you to sin, tear it out” etc), and the phrase “Lamb of God” is more understandable from the perspective of 1st century Jewish pastoralist than 21st century American urbanite. I’ve often been told to look up the more difficult passages in the Catechism, and as a Knight of Columbus we’ve sent out home Bible study guides. Indeed, there are a lot of good Catholic Bible study guides, and Dave Armstrong and Scott Hahn may be better assistants than your parish priest because the former have focused on apologetics, while your priest focused on counseling and parish management.

The personal aspect of faith is emphasized in the Catholic Church. The movies don’t tell it that way - our experience of faith seems to be limited to endless rosaries and arcane Latin-imbued rituals. But if you’ve been to Mass, you know this isn’t true. One great example is Pope Benedict’s book on Jesus, which is both a personal story of faith and a calling to personal faith in Christ.

Another great example is my own faith walk with Christ, but you’ll have to take my word on it since I haven’t written a book yet Suffice it to say, Christ is just as personal in the Catholic Church as in any non-Catholic one.

when Catholics talk about their faith, it wouldn’t just be about reason - but about how much they ADORE God…because if Catholicism or Orthodoxy is truly the fullness of God, I should be seeing even a greater amount of joy and love and spiritual fruit coming out of those churches over the Protestant churches, right?

The more Catholics you meet, the more you’ll find this to be true. You ask any Catholic who went to a World Youth Day, or even just got back from a retreat to describe their love for Christ, and it will be just as poetic as your description just given (and thank you for sharing that).

side note: I don’t mean to be condemning in any of this, I am merely just struggling over these issues…

Struggle is good. It means you’re taking it seriously.