Protestant Excuses

[enickman]

This is a very interesting thread. First I’d say everybody take a chill pill. haha. I’m currently Christian that goes to an anglican church (I was born and baptized in the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church) and kinda tend to be a hybrid in my theology (I tend to have a Catholic theology minus a few things). But the question of confession is one that really does bother me, not in an adjetated or angry way but more in a confused sense. I see the biblical and historcal evidence for having it and I wish that I could go to confession. As someone that struggles with a lot of guilt after knowing I’ve disobeyed my Lord, being able to go to confession would make all the difference in the world! But at the same time, according to the Catholic doctrine, if I have never gone to confession, than all those times I have asked forgiveness from Christ are all void! So it is really hard for me to believe that the Lord I know and love wouldn’t grant me forgiveness if I asked him in prayer, instead of going to a priest in confession. That just doesn’t seem like Christ to me. So its not a question of theology for me, its a question of Christ’s character. But who knows, I’ve been thinking about becoming catholic for a while and it could happen and this whole thing wouldn’t be an issue in my life.

Peace be with you.

I have never read a Catholic doctrine that said a person is not forgiven by asking forgiveness in prayer. However, Jesus Christ instituted confession, so the Church does teach that is the best way, and the way Catholics should do so. And remember, the Priest does not forgive on his own power, but the power given to him by Christ. That is a common misconception people have. (John 20:20-23)

 

[guanophore]

I’m sorry but this really frustrates me. I do not deny that the Catholic Church, through the Holy Spirit helped put together the Bible. However, it did not give us the Bible. The Bible is the Word of God. Not the word of man. The Bible is God breathed. Therefore, it is God who gave us the Bible. If God did not give us the Bible then it is not God’s word. Which means that the Bible doesn’t have to be infallible since it isn’t from God. Thank God that He did indeed give us the Bible.

Yes, God did give us the Bible, and we do thank Him for it. His method of giving it was to use men (Catholics) moved by the Spirit, who wrote from God. Catholics wrote, preserved, copied, promulgated and canonized those Holy Scriptures. God used Catholics to do all these things. That is why we say it came through the Church.

Are you really saying if there were contradictions the Church would overrule the Bible? That is HIS Word. It is the Gospel of Salvation. The Word of life. Scripture says that man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the Lord. Scripture is the word that comes from the mouth of the Lord.

I do think that is how it came across, but that is not what the Church teaches or believes. What we believe is that the Word of God is not just limited to Scripture, but also is alive and well in the Church. We call this Word of God living in the Church Sacred Tradition. Both the written and the living Word are two forms of the same inerrant Truth from God. These two streams of revelation compliment one another, but one does not “rule over” the other. It is the duty of the Church to explain and interpret the scriptures according to what the Apostles believed and taught. For that reason it would be more accurate to say that when there is an apparent contradiction, the teaching of Jesus protected infallibly in the Church by the Holy Spirit, helps us to understand the writings as intended.

I’m sorry but I definitely do not agree with you.

Neither does the Catholic Church.

 

[guanophore]

This is a very interesting thread. First I'd say everybody take a chill pill. haha. I'm currently Christian that goes to an anglican church (I was born and baptized in the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church) and kinda tend to be a hybrid in my theology (I tend to have a Catholic theology minus a few things).

Good for you Aslan! That is quite a hybrid you have going there.

You sure came to the right place to address Catholic theology.

But the question of confession is one that really does bother me, not in an adjetated or angry way but more in a confused sense. I see the biblical and historcal evidence for having it and I wish that I could go to confession. As someone that struggles with a lot of guilt after knowing I’ve disobeyed my Lord, being able to go to confession would make all the difference in the world!

I think this human condition is exactly why Christ instituted this sacrament. He made us, created us with this conscience, and knows best how it needs to be healed from the leprosy caused by sin.

But at the same time, according to the Catholic doctrine, if I have never gone to confession, than all those times I have asked forgiveness from Christ are all void!

No, this is not Catholic doctrine.

So it is really hard for me to believe that the Lord I know and love wouldn’t grant me forgiveness if I asked him in prayer, instead of going to a priest in confession.

He can, and He does, of course but the two are not mutually exclusive. When we go to confession the priest is there in the person of Christ, and when we hear the words, it is Christ speaking them to us.

That just doesn't seem like Christ to me. So its not a question of theology for me, its a question of Christ's character. But who knows, I've been thinking about becoming catholic for a while and it could happen and this whole thing wouldn't be an issue in my life.

Peace be with you.

It could be, that as you clear up your misconceptions about what Catholics believe and teach, you may find that you have no difficulties left.

 

[Reuben_J]

But at the same time, according to the Catholic doctrine, if I have never gone to confession, than all those times I have asked forgiveness from Christ are all void! So it is really hard for me to believe that the Lord I know and love wouldn’t grant me forgiveness if I asked him in prayer, instead of going to a priest in confession. That just doesn’t seem like Christ to me. So its not a question of theology for me, its a question of Christ’s character.

Hi. This has been answered comprehensively by the other Catholic posters. I just want to reiterate to you that was not Catholic Doctrine. Only God forgives sin, it is His domain and His pleasure. Priests act as the person of Christ during the Sacrament of Confession. If one is a Catholic, then that is how he goes about it in the forgiveness of his sin. Yet ultimately it also depends on his sincerity for that sin to actually be forgiven because there is such thing as bad Confession.

You are right about Christ’s character and Catholic’s Sacrament of Confession does not in conflict with it.

But who knows, I’ve been thinking about becoming catholic for a while and it could happen and this whole thing wouldn’t be an issue in my life.
Peace be with you.

God bless you and may you will find the truth in your journey.

 

[Luvtosew]

Yes, God did give us the Bible, and we do thank Him for it. His method of giving it was to use men (Catholics) moved by the Spirit, who wrote from God. Catholics wrote, preserved, copied, promulgated and canonized those Holy Scriptures. God used Catholics to do all these things. That is why we say it came through the Church.

I do think that is how it came across, but that is not what the Church teaches or believes. What we believe is that the Word of God is not just limited to Scripture, but also is alive and well in the Church. We call this Word of God living in the Church Sacred Tradition. Both the written and the living Word are two forms of the same inerrant Truth from God. These two streams of revelation compliment one another, but one does not “rule over” the other. It is the duty of the Church to explain and interpret the scriptures according to what the Apostles believed and taught. For that reason it would be more accurate to say that when there is an apparent contradiction, the teaching of Jesus protected infallibly in the Church by the Holy Spirit, helps us to understand the writings as intended.

Neither does the Catholic Church.

I don’t want to be disrespectful, but the men who wrote the Bible (penned it) were not Roman CAtholic, they were jewish and jewish Chrstians.

 

[Luvtosew]

Then who did? How did God do it? Did He drop it down from Heaven?

 

[CopticChristian]

Sorry, put me in the bad Catholic category.

Dubay,

There is no good of bad Catholic. There are catechized and uncatechized Catholics. There are Catholics that disregard what they have been taught and lean on other than what they were taught.

 

[kbwall]

I have never read a Catholic doctrine that said a person is not forgiven by asking forgiveness in prayer. However, Jesus Christ instituted confession, so the Church does teach that is the best way, and the way Catholics should do so. And remember, the Priest does not forgive on his own power, but the power given to him by Christ. That is a common misconception people have. (John 20:20-23)

Wait, so a Catholic doesn’t really have to go to confession, they can simply pray? I thought that was the opposite of what Catholics taught?

 

[pablope]

I don’t want to be disrespectful, but the men who wrote the Bible (penned it) were not Roman CAtholic, they were jewish and jewish Chrstians.

Actually, they were called followers of The Way…of The Way of the Lord…who were later called Christians…which was later called Catholic…or universal.

 

[pablope]

At least, the 10RCs will not go out and separate themselves from the Church and start their own denominations.

Now that I have left the RCC, I’m non denominational whatever, and I’m thinking of becoming a Christian Unitarian (which means I am tolerant of others beliefs)

Did Christ tolerate other beliefs? Then why did He say He will build a church…He did not say churchers…did He?

And also, how can you reconcile tolerance of ther beliefs when the Bible says…Eph 4…4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

How does having different faiths, beliefs and baptisms follow the wished of Christ?

 

[Luvtosew]

what makes you think your in the right church? Did Christ tolerate other beliefs, he didn’t tolerate the Pharesses, who were legalistic. Even your Pope now says Muslims and Jews worship the same Father,

those RC didn’t start other religions, lets see Luther was first although that wasn’t his plan.

 

[pablope]

It is built on the Rock of Peter and his faith.

Did Christ tolerate other beliefs, he didn’t tolerate the Pharesses, who were legalistic. Even your Pope now says Muslims and Jews worship the same Father,

Christ wills everyone to salvation…which the CC, through the Pope…endeavors to fulfill.

those RC didn’t start other religions, lets see Luther was first although that wasn’t his plan

He was already excommunicated and outside of the Church. Luther had the choice to remain and be obedient…just like reformers like Catherine of Sienna, Tesea of Avila, Francis of Assisi…Thomas More…if you really do examine their lives, you will see that they preached unity…without them being the source and focal point of unity…and gladly submitted to the HS and the Church and its councils.

For as the Bible says…in 1sam 15…22 But Samuel replied:

“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.
23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”

 

[Luvtosew]

All of this is a non issue for me. Hard to have unity when one doent believe in what is taught, that will never happened and never happened in Jesus’s day and I think God is wise enough to know its not going to happen now. So we must all respect eachother and show compassion to people who have different beliefs than we do.k

Love God and love your neighbor, and do no harm. Thats all he cares about.

No Christs church is built on Jesus, its his church and it includes all believers.

 

[FrederickOz]

I have been debating some Protestants on “once saved always saved”. It started when one of them told me about a Christian who had been found out having multiple affairs and then eventually left his wife and kids and moved in with one of the girl friends. I asked is he still saved despite all his serious sins.

After much squirming and double talk i got the answer “he is saved but won’t get eternal rewards!”

Sometimes you just have to laugh.

 

[CopticChristian]

pablope;9939618:

what makes you think your in the right church? **Did Christ tolerate other beliefs, he didn’t tolerate the Pharesses, who were legalistic. **

Even your Pope now says Muslims and Jews worship the same Father,

those RC didn’t start other religions, lets see Luther was first although that wasn’t his plan.

Luv,

It appears that you have swallowed the “Catholic Church is Legalism” pill.

 

[CopticChristian]

I have been debating some Protestants on “once saved always saved”. It started when one of them told me about a Christian who had been found out having multiple affairs and then eventually left his wife and kids and moved in with one of the girl friends. I asked is he still saved despite all his serious sins.

After much squirming and double talk i got the answer “he is saved but won’t get eternal rewards!”

Sometimes you just have to laugh.

Fred,

Once saved always saved if truly saved

or

Saved again and again and again…

 

[enickman]

Wait, so a Catholic doesn’t really have to go to confession, they can simply pray? I thought that was the opposite of what Catholics taught?

I didn’t say “didn’t have to” or that it isn’t required. If I understand right, a person must go to confession to become Catholic. I was just saying for those who aren’t familiar with the faith, non-Catholics who earnestly ask forgiveness in prayer. I am really just speculating. All I said is I’ve never read that it’s impossible to be forgiven in prayer.

 

[CopticChristian]

I didn’t say “didn’t have to” or that it isn’t required. If I understand right, a person must go to confession to become Catholic. I was just saying for those who aren’t familiar with the faith, non-Catholics who earnestly ask forgiveness in prayer. I am really just speculating. All I said is I’ve never read that it’s impossible to be forgiven in prayer.

Enick,

Do you go to mass?

My priest tells me that sins are forgiven at the mass and I found a site that says so…

rpinet.com/ml/2802bi2.html

The sacrament of reconciliation is the church’s special celebration of pardon, but forgiveness of sins is also one of the fruits of the Mass. There are many moments throughout the eucharistic celebration when the texts and gestures of the Mass express the community’s sorrow for sins.

 

[Lochias]

pablope;9940165:

I bet Pilate would agree while ya’ll washed your hands together over the same sink.

Hard to have unity when one doent believe in what is taught

Guess the one needs to brush up on the study of their Faith and grow stronger roots, instead of being blown away at the first sign of wind.

that will never happened and never happened in Jesus’s day

Yes, people had the audacity to walk away from Jesus when things got too hard for their tastes back then, too.

and I think God is wise enough to know its not going to happen now.

Do you often tell God what He’s wise enough to know?

So we must all respect eachother and show compassion to people who have different beliefs than we do.k

Glad you took something, anything, from the Feast that you’ve left behind.

Love God and love your neighbor, and do no harm. Thats all he cares about.

Or that’s all** you** care about. Jesus told us to pick up our crosses and follow him, too. He never promised us a rose garden.

No Christs church is built on Jesus, its his church and it includes all believers.

And Jesus built that Church on Peter. He said so, word for word, and you can’t deny it. Certainly, it includes all believers. Since you’ve walked away from your faith, the Church that Jesus built upon Peter the Rock, does that make you a believer or not?

[/QUOTE]

 

[kbwall]

Enick,

Do you go to mass?

My priest tells me that sins are forgiven at the mass and I found a site that says so…

rpinet.com/ml/2802bi2.html

I was under the impression that was only for venial sins.