Protestant Funerals

[1holycatholic]

A friend of mine died unexpectedly from a pulmonary embolism while out for a walk six days after having his cancerous tonsils removed (surgery, but not major surgery).

I attended his funeral at a United Methodist (parish ?) and it was strange.

The clerics were both women wearing albs and stoles, one like a priest one like a deacon.

It was embarrassingly obvious that the clerics did not know the deceased, and that they were working from a bullet list of things important to the deceased.

The presider repeatedly stated “we really don’t know what happens when you die…” :ehh:

Then the presider went on to proclaim that the deceased was “with God now.” What ever happened to the theological virtue of hope?

I wonder how the UMC cleric who repeatedly claimed that we don’t really don’t know what happens after death knows, with metaphysical certitude, God’s particular judgement of the man who died?

I prayed for the man who died as has always been the practice of the Christian faith, but nobody else did.

What’s the point? Anecdotes about the deceased and declarations that he’s in heaven?

It seemed rather pointless.

 

[Sufjon]

A friend of mine died unexpectedly from a pulmonary embolism while out for a walk six days after having his cancerous tonsils removed (surgery, but not major surgery).

I attended his funeral at a United Methodist (parish ?) and it was strange.

The clerics were both women wearing albs and stoles, one like a priest one like a deacon.

It was embarrassingly obvious that the clerics did not know the deceased, and that they were working from a bullet list of things important to the deceased.

The presider repeatedly stated “we really don’t know what happens when you die…” :ehh:

Then the presider went on to proclaim that the deceased was “with God now.” What ever happened to the theological virtue of hope?

I wonder how the UMC cleric who repeatedly claimed that we don’t really don’t know what happens after death knows, with metaphysical certitude, God’s particular judgement of the man who died?

I prayed for the man who died as has always been the practice of the Christian faith, but nobody else did.

What’s the point? Anecdotes about the deceased and declarations that he’s in heaven?

It seemed rather pointless.

Hi Holy Catholic: Can you share your opinion on what would have made it less pointless or more acceptable?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Cat]

A friend of mine died unexpectedly from a pulmonary embolism while out for a walk six days after having his cancerous tonsils removed (surgery, but not major surgery).

I attended his funeral at a United Methodist (parish ?) and it was strange.

The clerics were both women wearing albs and stoles, one like a priest one like a deacon.

It was embarrassingly obvious that the clerics did not know the deceased, and that they were working from a bullet list of things important to the deceased.

The presider repeatedly stated “we really don’t know what happens when you die…” :ehh:

Then the presider went on to proclaim that the deceased was “with God now.” What ever happened to the theological virtue of hope?

I wonder how the UMC cleric who repeatedly claimed that we don’t really don’t know what happens after death knows, with metaphysical certitude, God’s particular judgement of the man who died?

I prayed for the man who died as has always been the practice of the Christian faith, but nobody else did.

What’s the point? Anecdotes about the deceased and declarations that he’s in heaven?

It seemed rather pointless.

The point is that it’s comforting to the surviving loved ones. That’s extremely important, and I would like to kindly suggest that you might consider being a little less judgmental of those who believe differently than you do, especially when it involves death. Grieve with them and pray for them.

Protestants, as a rule, do not believe in praying for the dead. They believe that once a person has died, their eternal fate is already sealed based on the deceased person’s life choices. I’m pretty certain that the Methodists do not pray for the dead; my grandma was Methodist and so are my parents-in-law.

Protestants pray for the living, especially the survivors, who are sorrowing over their loss, and they grieve with them. Protestants also believe that a funeral is a “graduation” ceremony for the deceased, and that along with the sorrow, we should rejoice because the one who has died is now in heaven with Jesus and all their pain and suffering is over.

 

[mark_a]

A friend of mine died unexpectedly from a pulmonary embolism while out for a walk six days after having his cancerous tonsils removed (surgery, but not major surgery).

I attended his funeral at a United Methodist (parish ?) and it was strange.

The clerics were both women wearing albs and stoles, one like a priest one like a deacon.

It was embarrassingly obvious that the clerics did not know the deceased, and that they were working from a bullet list of things important to the deceased.

The presider repeatedly stated “we really don’t know what happens when you die…” :ehh:

Then the presider went on to proclaim that the deceased was “with God now.” What ever happened to the theological virtue of hope?

I wonder how the UMC cleric who repeatedly claimed that we don’t really don’t know what happens after death knows, with metaphysical certitude, God’s particular judgement of the man who died?

I prayed for the man who died as has always been the practice of the Christian faith, but nobody else did.

What’s the point? Anecdotes about the deceased and declarations that he’s in heaven?

It seemed rather pointless.

Ahhh. . . . . Good ol’ purgatory. Where is it when ya need it???

 

[1holycatholic]

Hi Holy Catholic: Can you share your opinion on what would have made it less pointless or more acceptable?

Your friend
Sufjon

Praying for the deceased would have been a start.

We do know what happens: death => particular judgement => heaven or hell. We don’t sit in judgement, God does. We pray for those who have died as has always been the practice of the Jews and a practice of Christians the has perdured since Christ established His Catholic Church.

 

[1holycatholic]

The point is that it’s comforting to the surviving loved ones. That’s extremely important, and I would like to kindly suggest that you might consider being a little less judgmental of those who believe differently than you do, especially when it involves death. Grieve with them and pray for them.

Protestants, as a rule, do not believe in praying for the dead. They believe that once a person has died, their eternal fate is already sealed based on the deceased person’s life choices. I’m pretty certain that the Methodists do not pray for the dead; my grandma was Methodist and so are my parents-in-law.

Protestants pray for the living, especially the survivors, who are sorrowing over their loss, and they grieve with them. Protestants also believe that a funeral is a “graduation” ceremony for the deceased, and that along with the sorrow, we should rejoice because the one who has died is now in heaven with Jesus and all their pain and suffering is over.

There is no charity in untruth. I can’t say if the man that died is in heaven or hell. If I did that would be judgmental. It would also be a lie. I have hope that the man who died is in heaven.

You can’t lie to someone in order to make them feel good. That’s exactly what the cleric did. I’m surprised that you are defending a lie. You can’t do evil (lying) so that good may come of it.

 

[ForeverGrace]

The point is that funerals are for the living, not the dead.

I’ve been a Christian for more than 40 years, and I’ve never heard that a funeral is any kind of graduation service. Nor have I ever heard a Methodist say “We don’t know what happens when we die”. But I believe you heard that. Perhaps the Methodists have moved even further from orthodoxy than I realized. Sad, really.

There are times when clergy are asked to perform funeral services for people they do not know. It certainly takes the personal touch out of the service.

Methodists tend towards liberalism, but there are exceptions. You will find ordained women in the Episcopal, Presbyterian (USA ONLY), Methodist and other denominations. I don’t agree with that, but I recogmize that once people start trying to to change the gospel, just about anything is acceptable to them.

 

[1holycatholic]

Ahhh. . . . . Good ol’ purgatory. Where is it when ya need it???

It’s right there in the Bible, even the lite version with seven books thrown out that is preferred by Mormons and Protestants.

 

[1holycatholic]

The point is that funerals are for the living, not the dead.

I’ve been a Christian for more than 40 years, and I’ve never heard that a funeral is any kind of graduation service. Nor have I ever heard a Methodist say “We don’t know what happens when we die”. But I believe you heard that. Perhaps the Methodists have moved even further from orthodoxy than I realized. Sad, really.

There are times when clergy are asked to perform funeral services for people they do not know. It certainly takes the personal touch out of the service.

Methodists tend towards liberalism, but there are exceptions. You will find ordained women in the Episcopal, Presbyterian (USA ONLY), Methodist and other denominations. I don’t agree with that, but I recogmize that once people start trying to to change the gospel, just about anything is acceptable to them.

I’ve been to other Methodist funeral services and though they didn’t pray for the dead, they didn’t say anything so outlandish as “we don’t know what happens when you die”, nor did they proclaim the deceased was in heaven. If I were still a Protestant I would have run away from the UMC, at least that particular congregation.

I know the UMC are a denomination with, uhhh, flexible moral codes. There is a UMC building right outside my development. They’ve flown gay pride flags out front.

 

[ForeverGrace]

I’ve been to other Methodist funeral services and though they didn’t pray for the dead, they didn’t say anything so outlandish as “we don’t know what happens when you die”, nor did they proclaim the deceased was in heaven. If I were still a Protestant I would have run away from the UMC, at least that particular congregation.

I know the UMC are a denomination with, uhhh, flexible moral codes. There is a UMC building right outside my development. They’ve flown gay pride flags out front.

How sad!!! I have a feeling John Wesley is spinnin’ in his grave. I could not agree with you more on what is happening in some of the denominations. Although I must confess, I didn’t realize that the Methodists may have exceeded the Episcopals in their abandonment of the scriptures. I actually feel sorry for the Episcopals. They are in their last dying breath as far as I can tell. I have a great friend who remains in the Episocopal church because it has been part of his family for hundreds of years, yet now he doesn’t know if his parish church will even be open from week to week as the heirarchy of the church is suing them for the building they didn’t even purchase. He says he will likely join the more conservative Anglicans.

I join you in running away from any congregation that perverts the scriptures.

 

[Phemie]

It was embarrassingly obvious that the clerics did not know the deceased, and that they were working from a bullet list of things important to the deceased.

That’s not unusual in this day and age, even in the Catholic Church. My 90 year old father had been an altar server for over 30 years, including for a few years in his early 80s until his knees gave out, as well as an EMHC, always in the same parish where he’d been baptized. At his funeral the priest couldn’t even remember his name.

Then the presider went on to proclaim that the deceased was “with God now.” What ever happened to the theological virtue of hope?

I’ve heard the line “he’s with God now” said by the priest at 90% of the Catholic funerals I’ve attended. Not sure why you’d be surprised to hear it at a non-Catholic funeral.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Phemie:

That’s not unusual in this day and age, even in the Catholic Church. My 90 year old father had been an altar server for over 30 years, including for a few years in his early 80s until his knees gave out, as well as an EMHC, always in the same parish where he’d been baptized. At his funeral the priest couldn’t even remember his name.

I’ve heard the line “he’s with God now” said by the priest at 90% of the Catholic funerals I’ve attended. Not sure why you’d be surprised to hear it at a non-Catholic funeral.

When a new pastor came to my church last year, I was so relieved to hear him tell everyone not to forget to pray for the deceased at the funeral Mass. I’d been so used to the previous pastor saying things along the lines of “He’s in heaven now” and so on that it really took me by surprise, despite the fact that it shouldn’t have.

As to this particular topic, there’s a poster who says that protestant funerals are for the living. I find that to be true, certainly in appearance, by my own experience at them. I find it sad that the funeral is more about everyone else than the person who died and that they have to be forgotten (no prayers for them, etc.).

 

[Sufjon]

Praying for the deceased would have been a start.

I am sure you corrected that oversight by doing so yourself, in which case it is most fortunate for his or her soul that there was someone in attendance who knows how such things are properly done.

We do know what happens: death => particular judgement => heaven or hell. We don’t sit in judgement, God does. We pray for those who have died as has always been the practice of the Jews and a practice of Christians the has perdured since Christ established His Catholic Church.

I try to understand this the best I can, but sometimes I need a bit of clarification on Christian thought. Anyway, I was under the impression that in some Christian faiths it is believed that the soul is in purgatory or in some state of abeyance or soul sleep until a final judgment that comes after the second coming. Death => particular judgment => heaven or hell sound rather immediate. Is it your conviction that it’s all immediate upon death or that the judgment is later? Or is the second coming merely when you get your body resurrected, and the judgment happens sometime before that?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[Bwtby]

I’ve been to other Methodist funeral services and though they didn’t pray for the dead, they didn’t say anything so outlandish as “we don’t know what happens when you die”, nor did they proclaim the deceased was in heaven. If I were still a Protestant I would have run away from the UMC, at least that particular congregation.

I know the UMC are a denomination with, uhhh, flexible moral codes. There is a UMC building right outside my development. They’ve flown gay pride flags out front.

Oh my. I thought gay pride flags at churches was just a joke.

They really do it? Lol.

 

[1holycatholic]

I’ve heard the line “he’s with God now” said by the priest at 90% of the Catholic funerals I’ve attended. Not sure why you’d be surprised to hear it at a non-Catholic funeral.

I haven’t.

 

[erodelphian]

The last Catholic funeral mass I attended the Priest got the deceased name, both first and last, wrong every time he mentioned it (It was Mike, not Mark) — Pretty embarrassing. I can only imagine how the family felt. I know the priest was doing his best, and I certainly wouldn’t harbor ill feelings, but still.

 

[1holycatholic]

I am sure you corrected that oversight by doing so yourself, in which case it is most fortunate for his or her soul that there was someone in attendance who knows how such things are properly done.

I said that I did. There may have been others, but nothing was spoken aloud.

I try to understand this the best I can, but sometimes I need a bit of clarification on Christian thought. Anyway, I was under the impression that in some Christian faiths it is believed that the soul is in purgatory or in some state of abeyance or soul sleep until a final judgment that comes after the second coming. Death => particular judgment => heaven or hell sound rather immediate. Is it your conviction that it’s all immediate upon death or that the judgment is later? Or is the second coming merely when you get your body resurrected, and the judgment happens sometime before that?

Your friend
Sufjon

The Compendium of the Catholic Church
205. What happens to our body and our soul after death?

992-1004
1016-1018

After death, which is the separation of the body and the soul, the body becomes corrupt while the soul, which is immortal, goes to meet the judgment of God and awaits its reunion with the body when it will rise transformed at the time of the return of the Lord. How the resurrection of the body will come about exceeds the possibilities of our imagination and understanding.
I hope this helps.

 

[Bwtby]

The last Catholic funeral mass I attended the Priest got the deceased name, both first and last, wrong every time he mentioned it (It was Mike, not Mark) — Pretty embarrassing. I can only imagine how the family felt. I know the priest was doing his best, and I certainly wouldn’t harbor ill feelings, but still.

Ouch.

 

[Sufjon]

I said that I did. There may have been others, but nothing was spoken aloud.

The Compendium of the Catholic Church
205. What happens to our body and our soul after death?

992-1004
1016-1018

After death, which is the separation of the body and the soul, the body becomes corrupt while the soul, which is immortal, goes to meet the judgment of God and awaits its reunion with the body when it will rise transformed at the time of the return of the Lord. How the resurrection of the body will come about exceeds the possibilities of our imagination and understanding.
I hope this helps.

Thanks Holy Catholic. Is that how all Christians see life after death, or is that specific to Catholicism?

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[1holycatholic]

Thanks Holy Catholic. Is that how all Christians see life after death, or is that specific to Catholicism?

Your friend
Sufjon

That’s the belief of Catholics and Eastern Orthodox which are almost 1.5 billion of the earth’s 2.1 billion Christians. AFAIK that’s the same belief held by the majority of Protestants.

I don’t think I can’t say anything about all Christians other than that they are validly baptized.