Protestant Hymns

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I was looking through the shorter version of the divine office and noted that recommended prayers included a number of Protestant hymns, such as Amazing Grace and Luther’s Mighty Fortress. Why would a Catholic prayer book include Protestant hymns?
 
T. More:
I was looking through the shorter version of the divine office and noted that recommended prayers included a number of Protestant hymns, such as Amazing Grace and Luther’s Mighty Fortress. Why would a Catholic prayer book include Protestant hymns?
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Why not?

Rather than looking at the composer and accepting or rejecting a hymn by his/her catholicity or non-catholicity, why not look at the words and see what is expressed there is something that you, as a Catholic, can express?

DaveBj
 
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DaveBj:
Why not?

Rather than looking at the composer and accepting or rejecting a hymn by his/her catholicity or non-catholicity, why not look at the words and see what is expressed there is something that you, as a Catholic, can express?

DaveBj
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The theology can be wrong. Some can be very anti-Catholic.

Amazing Grace’s theology is not consistent with Catholic teaching…
 
I really don’t understand why people get so hung up about this. Just because Amazing Grace for example, may have been written by a protestant does not mean that it is fundementally flawed.

It is a beautiful piece of music, and it teaches a basic Christian doctrine that is a cornerstone of the Catholic faith.
 
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buffalo:
Amazing Grace’s theology is not consistent with Catholic teaching…
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Uh-oh–this might be one of the places where I’m wrong! (see my sig).

What in Amazing Grace disputes Catholic teaching?
 
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Timidity:
Uh-oh–this might be one of the places where I’m wrong! (see my sig).

What in Amazing Grace disputes Catholic teaching?
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Maybe it is because this verse can (as a stretch) be seen as being saved by faith alone. I personally didn’t see anything wrong with the lyrics…

Through many dangers, toils and snares…
we have already come.
T’was Grace that brought us safe thus far…
and Grace will lead us home.
Amazing Grace

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.

T’was Grace that taught…
my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear…
the hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares…
we have already come.
T’was Grace that brought us safe thus far…
and Grace will lead us home.

The Lord has promised good to me…
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be…
as long as life endures.

When we’ve been here ten thousand years…
bright shining as the sun.
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise…
then when we’ve first begun.

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me…
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now, I see.
 
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Timidity:
Uh-oh–this might be one of the places where I’m wrong! (see my sig).

What in Amazing Grace disputes Catholic teaching?
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It is Calvinistic.
 
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buffalo:
It is Calvinistic.
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I’m sorry. I don’t understand. Could you please explain a bit more in depth? I’ve read the lyrics a few times over now, and I can’t see anything against Church teachings.

If you do, then there is something I’m missing about Church teachings. Please correct me.
 
As my memory serves (I can check or another poster can correct me) it has to do with salvation by unmerited grace alone. That you are born a wretch, with no hope. Catholic teaching is not that we are born wretches. It goes on to say that we are saved by grace alone, a grace we cannot merit. Predestination is not Catholic teaching.
Code: 
From the [Catholic Encyclopedia on Calvinism](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03198a.htm)
To represent man as sent into the world under a curse, as incurably wicked-wicked by the constitution of his nature and wicked by eternal decree-as doomed, unless exempted by special grace which he cannot merit, or by any effort of his own obtain, to live in sin while he remains on earth, and to be eternally miserable when he leaves it-to represent him as born unable to keep the commandments, yet as justly liable to everlasting punishment for breaking them, is alike repugnant to reason and conscience, and turns existence into a hideous nightmare. (Short Studies, II, 3.)
 
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Shiann:
Maybe it is because this verse can (as a stretch) be seen as being saved by faith alone.
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It seems like too much of a strech, too ne. It says very clearly that the hymn’s protagonist was saved by grace, not by faith. And it is a Catholic teaching (as well as a Baptist one) that we are saved by grace.
 
Buffalo,

Thanks for your response.

So it’s just the word “wretch” we object to?

The hymn seems consistant with the Catholic definition of grace: “The free and undeserved gift that God gives us to respond to our vocation to become his adopted children. As sanctifying grace, God shares his divine life and friendship with us in a habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that enables the soul to live with God, to act by his love. As actual grace, God gives us the help to conform our lives to his will.”

And the theme seems consistant with both the Catholic definition of grace, and CCC 1701 “…It is in Christ, Redeemer and Savior, that the divine image, disfigured in man by the first sin, has been restored to its original beauty and ennobled by the grace of God”
 
T. More–

You know that Protestant hymnals include CATHOLIC hymns, right?

After all, hymns and music written before the Reformation were by definition Catholic Christian.

All that lovely Gregorian chant.

And, after the Reformation, there were still many Catholic hymns written by Catholic composers in what became Italy, Germany, and also in France, and even in England, and later in the United States.
 
I don’t believe it was in older hymnals for the reasons above. Our hymns should support our beliefs because they also teach. Even what some perceive as subtle differences can be profound over time as the domino effect weakens Catholicity.
 
You have to remember that when John Newton wrote “…that saved a wretch like me,” he was thinking about himself, and if you’ve read anything about his life, you know that he was a genuine wretch.

Actually, when we put our individual lives up against the holiness of God and the sacrifice of Jesus’ Passion, none of us looks all that great.

In any case, this discussion is good; it’s what I suggested. Don’t look at the writer; analyze the teachings embodied in the lyrics. I have noticed, for example, that the versions of non-Catholic hymns in Catholic hymnals often leave out verses that might be interpreted as against Catholic teachings, or change the words to come more into line with Catholic teachings.

DaveBj
 
I am not even going to go into the theological correctness of Amazing Grace. I think Timidity has proven that it is theologically correct.

I think the more important issue is whether or not the lyrics are approved for liturgical use. I believe that “Amazing Grace” and “A Mighty Fortress is Our God” are ones that have been approved.
 
Hymns that teach? This isn’t a Catholic/Protestant issue since when “Protestant” hymns are imported, they are scrutinized or edited for theological soundness. It is a common sense issue. Take a look at the “Catholic” “sing a new Church”? Good Lord: Deliver us!
 
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mercygate:
Hymns that teach? This isn’t a Catholic/Protestant issue since when “Protestant” hymns are imported, they are scrutinized or edited for theological soundness. It is a common sense issue. Take a look at the “Catholic” “sing a new Church”? Good Lord: Deliver us!
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Not! Their are many hymnals available, put together by various organizations. They do not all pass scrutiny. Some are more “Catholic” than others. Hymns are an essential part of Mass and they must reflect sound theology. And why wouldn’t we want them to? Why would we want a hymn that is a problem in our Mass? We could extend that permission to secular music, too.
 
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buffalo:
Not! Their are many hymnals available, put together by various organizations. They do not all pass scrutiny. Some are more “Catholic” than others. Hymns are an essential part of Mass and they must reflect sound theology. And why wouldn’t we want them to? Why would we want a hymn that is a problem in our Mass? We could extend that permission to secular music, too.
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Please. The Liturgy of the Hours is not on the “fringe” list.

But if “Sing a New Church” is in Breaking Bread, I concede your point that scrutiny can be casual to non-existent, even in the “approved” texts.

Adoremus – arguably the most “Catholic” of the current hymnals – contains (along with 12 settings of the Mass, six in Latin) virtually every golden chestnut of the mainstream Protestant repertory of the last 400 years (no sentimental parlor favorites like “The Old Rugged Cross” or “How Great Thou Art” but theologically sound hymns. Until recently there was very broad common ground in Protestant and Catholic theology.
 
Tantum: I am aware that Catholic hymns are in Protestant hymnals, which I think is helpful ecumenically.
 
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