Protestant interpretation

[Mickey]

ahimsaman72:

The more I have studied and researched, the more I become strained and disillusioned with many aspects of my Christian faith.

Interesting. I am also somewhat of a student of world religions, and the more I study, research, and discern, the more I am confirmed in my christian faith. Sometimes all the knowledge in the world cannot open one’s eyes to the truth. Only the grace of God can do that. Many of the apostles were lowly fishermen.

 

[SPOKENWORD]

ahimsaman72:

Dear brother, it is this kind of rhetoric that is so unappealing. It is also why you have received many unkind remarks. We must always look to examine our own selves - our own motives and intents before we can rightly examine others. You just might find that you are the one with errors. Something to think about. And, here’s a Scripture to ponder:

Matthew 7:3-5

" 3. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4. Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5. Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye."

Peace…

Hi,brother Ahimsaman, Im sorry for offending my brothers and sisters. God Bless.

 

[ahimsaman72]

Fiat:

Dear Ahimsaman72:

Thank you for your response. I don’t have a lot of time this morning, but I wanted to respond a little. You stated:
I simply don’t subscribe to this sort of deconstruction-post-modern view of things. To say that we cannot know truth absolutely is to say, in essence, that we cannot know Christ. Moreover the standard rebuttal argument to your statement, (which I confess grows a little wearisome), is that to say we cannot know any truth absolutely defeats itself on its own terms by establishing a truth for itself.

I don’t mean to step into the realm of theory and philosophy, here, but the issue I originally intended to address is the notion that within the protestant system truth is determined individually and believed individually, and the individual lends credence to his position by stating that “the Holy Spirit has convicted him to believe this,” or something along those lines. The nonsense of the system becomes apparent when one claims he has the truth of matters despite that “truth” clearly contradicing the alleged truth that the other individual claims he has. As Catholics, we don’t need to worry about finding truth because we believe the fullness of that Truth is already within the Church Herself, regardless of whether individual scripture passages have been defined by the magisterium. Our goal as Catholics, then is to submit to the will of the Father as it has been revealed to us through Holy Mother Church.

In my protestant experience, I noticed that I spent too much time trying to determine what a scripture passage r-e-a-l-l-y meant, as opposed to living my Christian faith. Contrary to what some non-Catholics argue, I have found that living my Catholic faith is far more liberating than my protestant, anabaptist experience was.

Your brother,
Fiat

Hello brother Fiat!

Good again to speak to you.

I believe that whatever knowledge we have of Christ and God is not complete. In our physical and mental states it is truly impossible to come to ultimate knowledge. Logically, if we were able to put God under a microscope, form a hypothesis, write a mathematical equation to explain Him, then we would be gods ourselves. We would have the same capacity as God Himself.

Honestly, I could follow whatever the Southern Baptist Convention tells me is true. Whatever pronouncements they make or creeds they accept or judgements they make could be accepted with ease by me. However, if my conscience and intellect revolted at their pronouncements or judgements, I would have to go with my conscience, realizing that in the end of my life in judgement - I could not give Him (God) the excuse that “I was just following the directions of my leaders”.

There has to be some culpability for the individual. That’s what concerns me so much about the attitude of many Catholics and Baptists. For one to give up speculation and research and study on a subject simply because their “authority” or leaders have defined dogmas on that subject is irresponsible and detrimental to one’s spiritual life.

I agree that one should truly focus their activities on living their spiritual life instead of dealing only with concepts of their spiritual life. Knowledge and practice are the ideal.

Bless you Fiat!

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Mickey:

Interesting. I am also somewhat of a student of world religions, and the more I study, research, and discern, the more I am confirmed in my christian faith. Sometimes all the knowledge in the world cannot open one’s eyes to the truth. Only the grace of God can do that. Many of the apostles were lowly fishermen.

In regards to our knowledge or understanding of “truth”, I have debated many people and still contend that the Baptist denomination is closer than any other Christian denomination in the understanding of truth. However, when I compare my Christian faith with other world faiths, I see that my understanding of God is not truly complete. The Christian faith is only a microcosm of the macrocosm of world faiths. Do you see what I mean?

I can understandably believe the Baptist faith is the best Christian faith, while at the same time recognize that the Christian faith is not complete and doesn’t answer all the questions of our human existence. By being open to study and research of other faiths, I can touch the whole human experience and come to clearer, more concise conclusions.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

SPOKENWORD:

Hi,brother Ahimsaman, Im sorry for offending my brothers and sisters. God Bless.

Dear brother, my words were words of admonition and were for reflection. Hopefully, you saw them as such and will not think there are ill feelings. I have seen you around for a while here and admire your heart and zeal for your faith.

I only hope to encourage you to be more open and less critical so that your experience here will be beneficial to yourself and others. Trust me, self-examination is something that we all must do. I don’t like what I see within myself at times. Once one is aware and mindful of their behaviour and thoughts, one can do something about it.

I wish you only peace and blessings and happiness!

 

[Beaver]

First, the New Testament is Catholic Tradition.

Second, since the New Testament is Catholic Tradition and Protestant cannot discuss Catholic Tradition. They cannot discuss the New Testament.

Third, Protestant Interpretation says no Catholic Tradition

Forth, The New Testament was written by Catholics for Catholics

 

[Mickey]

ahimsaman72:

In regards to our knowledge or understanding of “truth”, I have debated many people and still contend that the Baptist denomination is closer than any other Christian denomination in the understanding of truth. However, when I compare my Christian faith with other world faiths, I see that my understanding of God is not truly complete. The Christian faith is only a microcosm of the macrocosm of world faiths. Do you see what I mean?

I can understandably believe the Baptist faith is the best Christian faith, while at the same time recognize that the Christian faith is not complete and doesn’t answer all the questions of our human existence. By being open to study and research of other faiths, I can touch the whole human experience and come to clearer, more concise conclusions.

Peace…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Beaver:

First, the New Testament is Catholic Tradition.

Second, since the New Testament is Catholic Tradition and Protestant cannot discuss Catholic Tradition. They cannot discuss the New Testament.

Third, Protestant Interpretation says no Catholic Tradition

Forth, The New Testament was written by Catholics for Catholics

But I thought God’s word was meant for the whole of humankind and not to a select few??? Perhaps you need to re-think your logic.

God’s mission is to and for the world’s sake, not so that grumpy Christians can sit and speculate and debate Scripture.

Peace…

 

[Beaver]

ahimsaman72:

But I thought God’s word was meant for the whole of humankind and not to a select few??? Perhaps you need to re-think your logic.

God’s mission is to and for the world’s sake, not so that grumpy Christians can sit and speculate and debate Scripture.

Peace…

I thoght it was the Protestant that said no Catholic Tradition.

 

[Shibboleth]

We believe in tradition we just don’t think that it is infallible.

The New Testament was written for catholics from catholics and compiled by catholics and Catholics.

 

[Shibboleth]

Sorry change that, the New Testament was composed and compiled by catholics for all that would hear - and even for some of those that try not to…

 

[Beaver]

Shibboleth:

We believe in tradition we just don’t think that it is infallible.

The New Testament was written for catholics from catholics and compiled by catholics and Catholics.

What part of the New Testament is in error?

That is not infallible?

 

[Fiat]

Dear Ahimsaman72:

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. You stated:

For one to give up speculation and research and study on a subject simply because their “authority” or leaders have defined dogmas on that subject is irresponsible and detrimental to one’s spiritual life.

Being a Catholic is not a mindless activity, and I’m curious as to why you think submission involves “giving up speculation and research and study?!”

I guess I find it much more mindless to create one’s own way for oneself…picking and choosing from one religion to the next and trying to conform spiritualities into something that pleases only the individual.

Your brother,
Fiat

 

[Mickey]

ahimsaman72:

In regards to our knowledge or understanding of “truth”, I have debated many people and still contend that the Baptist denomination is closer than any other Christian denomination in the understanding of truth. However, when I compare my Christian faith with other world faiths, I see that my understanding of God is not truly complete. The Christian faith is only a microcosm of the macrocosm of world faiths. Do you see what I mean?

I can understandably believe the Baptist faith is the best Christian faith, while at the same time recognize that the Christian faith is not complete and doesn’t answer all the questions of our human existence. By being open to study and research of other faiths, I can touch the whole human experience and come to clearer, more concise conclusions.

Dear Ahimsaman72,

I do understand where you are coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I have baptist family members and I feel that the baptist is probably the furthest than any other christian denomination in understanding the truth. That being said, I believe that the fullness of truth was deposited with the Catholic church and passed on through apostolic succession to our present time. Therefore, my obedience to the teaching authority of the Catholic church is unwavering. This does not mean that my quest for knowledge and research is rendered futile. My unending study and research continually affirms my belief in the “defined dogmas” of the Catholic church. To be obedient to the teaching authority does not relegate an individual to a mindless brainwashed robot. Obedience to the truth is liberating. Your conscience and intellect have revolted at certain pronouncements and now you feel compelled to seek the truth. I wish you blessings on your journey. It will be a difficult pilgrimage. “knowledge and practice” is nice, but grace is the ideal. The brain is for thinking and the heart is for faith. God Bless you.

 

[ja3712]

The Catholic church has a rich historical source of scriptural interpretation that dates back to Jesus and the apostles through apostolic succession.(ie:magisterium, church fathers). Where do the protestants get their interpretation of scriptures?

Protestants dont trust any authority (the church) to tell them what to do, even though the apostols had good intentions in founding the church. Basically, people, including the pope, are not infallible, and are vulnerable to corruption. The catholic church back then prohibited the reading of the Bible btw, and protestants were completely justified to break away from the church. The church sold indulgences, taxed starving peasants, popes were pure evil, ex: pope Alexander had orgies, pope Gregory authorized torture for the inquisition, etc. Seriously, if it wasnt for protestant revolutionaries, the catholic church would not have cleaned up its acts.

 

[Shibboleth]

Beaver:

What part of the New Testament is in error?

That is not infallible?

You are mincing words. Certainly all things done by man are tradition in one sense or another. There are those things that are spoken of by God and the Gospel as divinely inspired. Those things are believed to be inerrant or infallible – however you would like to take it…

Your point is moot though because you would understand that Lutherans and some other religions follow this statement.

Also as part of the Church catholic, we share the pre-reformation Dogmas with the pre-schismed Church:

“Only those things have been recounted whereof we thought that it was necessary to speak, in order that it might be understood that in doctrine and ceremonies nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic. For it is manifest that we have taken most diligent care that no new and ungodly doctrine should creep into our churches.” -The Conclusion to the Augsburg Confession

This would include things such as the Trinity and the Virginity of Mary that are not well documented in the Bible. For instance the Second Council of Constantinople we abide by…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Mickey:

Dear Ahimsaman72,

I do understand where you are coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I have baptist family members and I feel that the baptist is probably the furthest than any other christian denomination in understanding the truth. That being said, I believe that the fullness of truth was deposited with the Catholic church and passed on through apostolic succession to our present time. Therefore, my obedience to the teaching authority of the Catholic church is unwavering. This does not mean that my quest for knowledge and research is rendered futile. My unending study and research continually affirms my belief in the “defined dogmas” of the Catholic church. To be obedient to the teaching authority does not relegate an individual to a mindless brainwashed robot. Obedience to the truth is liberating. Your conscience and intellect have revolted at certain pronouncements and now you feel compelled to seek the truth. I wish you blessings on your journey. It will be a difficult pilgrimage. “knowledge and practice” is nice, but grace is the ideal. The brain is for thinking and the heart is for faith. God Bless you.

Thank you for your time and thoughts. I am glad you continue to study and research things for yourself. And I wish you many blessings, peace and happiness in your life and in the life of those you love. Grace is a gift from above. And I luckily have experienced God’s grace to a great extent.

I’m sure I will see you around the corner somewhere.

Peace…

 

[Beaver]

Shibboleth:

Your point is moot though because you would understand that Lutherans and some other religions follow this statement.

Moot because you want it to be...

I have always saw Lutherans as brothers in Christ.

Let us put this way, if popes, cardinals, bishops, and priests who constantly are trying to destroy the church from within cannot do so, why does Protestant think they can? Is that you feel you can do a better job of it. Soon you find yourself at Jericho with walls tumbling down. The seventh trumpet wins again…

 

[ahimsaman72]

Fiat:

Dear Ahimsaman72:

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post. You stated:
Being a Catholic is not a mindless activity, and I’m curious as to why you think submission involves “giving up speculation and research and study?!”

I guess I find it much more mindless to create one’s own way for oneself…picking and choosing from one religion to the next and trying to conform spiritualities into something that pleases only the individual.

Your brother,
Fiat

Dear Fiat,

Again, it is a pleasure to speak to you again. I don’t believe being a Catholic is a mindless activity. There are many rich practices that I admire in the Catholic Church. I believe many have given up research and speculation. I know some here on the forums who will simply say - “well, the Church says it, so it must be true”. This kind of mentality needs to be addressed and corrected.

I consider it mindful of one’s spiritual life and health to study, examine, rebuke or embrace “truths” themselves and not an authority that defines “truths”. Again, it is dangerous to not be open to the fact that “absolute truth” is unattainable.

On “NOVA” last night they were discussing the “string theory” proposed by Einstein. Now, that theory has undergone some changes and new understandings. Scientists upheld Einstein’s conclusions, but some pioneers continued to work on this theory. In the 20 years since the theory came into existence, 5 different “string theories” sprung up. Now, there is the “M theory” which goes beyond the original theory and proposes different concepts.

If scientists continued to follow simply what Einstein proposed and didn’t continue research and study - they wouldn’t have ever come to the knowledge and understanding they have to this point. And, they freely admit that the new “M theory” is not an absolute and still needs some bugs worked out.

Whether science, philosophy or religion, one must continue to seek new boundaries and truths to be discovered. It is presumptuous to say “we have absolute truth”. Hopefully, you may see where I am coming from.

Peace…

 

[Mickey]

ja3712:

Basically, people, including the pope, are not infallible, and are vulnerable to corruption.

Dear Ja3712,

You misunderstand the concept of infallibility. Do your research…and remember, people sin, doctrine does not.