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teak421
Guest
Can you point me to any Church Fathers (first five centuries) who agreed with your doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved? If you can not, then are you saying that the Church Fathers did not know God? I say this because you are making an argument that because I disagree with you, therefore I must not know God. So, if the Early Church Fathers did not believe in OSAS, tell me plainly, did they know God?
- Michael
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rinnie
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That has become quite clear to all of us.
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teak421
Guest
Here’s a web site that believes in the Calvinist doctrine of pre-destination. reformed.org/index.html — tell me, why should I believe you and your doctrine and not them? Can I compare your educational backgrounds so I can determine who I need to put my trust in?
Can’t you see the madness! You think you are right and SO DOES EVERY OTHER PROTESTANT! Its utter madness…
- Michael
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Ginger2
Guest
I am not participating in threads right now, but since I am laid up with a sprained ankle, the PC and TV are about all i can do, so I still read threads periodically. Just want everyone to know so they don’t go bizzerk over my not answering posts.
You can do a search for the Oldest Creed, Roman Creed to find the info you are looking for.
And as long as I am here, I do not have a problem with the creed. My point is the content of the creed is spelled out clearly in Scripture, so the church did not invent the creed, it merely summarized the tenets of Scriptures.
I think Catholics take way too much credit for things they had nothing to do with. (ie God the creator is in Genesis, etc. )
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teak421
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Ginger… What other Church was back in the “day”? We didn’t have Baptist, or AG’s or Calvinist? We simply had a Catholic Church instituted by God. Nothing else.
Hope your ankle gets better…
- Michael
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
What authority did you make the statement concerning Protestants? Then, I will answer your question. No a billion people do not need to be killed off; are you crazy? Or did you mean something different?
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teak421
Guest
I was asking you to clarify the statement… I have no idea what you meant. Can you explain…???
- Michael
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teak421
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Authority about what? Its common sense: Example:
You believe in OSAS
Jack believes that you must be Baptized only in Jesus Name to be saved
Jill believes that you can lose your salvation
Steve believes that you must speak in tongues in order to be saved
Kevin believes in the Calvinist doctrine
Now, I don’t need any authority to look up at the list and say either all are wrong… one is right, etc. And, that each one believes he or she is right. And, all of the above use the same Bible and invoke the Holy Spirit.
How is what I am saying anything to do with authority… Its simply doesn’t make sense…
- Michael
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JohnnyBeth
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So you do not see the truth in the previous post where beyond any shadow of doubt that the Holy Spirit leads each indiviual, one at a time, to the truth concerning God? You must have not even read it or did you and you still cannot see? I would believe and do believe what God has said and remember believers are not many wise; that includes me because God knows me
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Why do you boast in your Church so much?
but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
In case you have any doubts that you can do a thing about you own salvation; read above over and over.
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rinnie
Guest
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izza:
:flowers:
Do hope you heal quickly!
And I am so glad to see you have no problem with the Creed. Yes it is quiet clear in scripture. As with all of the RCC teaching’s. Nothing the CHurch teaches ever is opposite of the bible. After all it is the CHurch who indeed wrote it
But I do have a question if you do not mind. Now you agree with the creed. Now the creed states I believe in ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. Now that is the Apostles Creed so they lived by it.
How do you feel about the Apostles saying that the Church is Catholic? Oh I have heard so many people accept the Apostles teachings, and then turn around and deny their Church, You just would not believe some of the story’s I have heard from people to try to make that sentence GO AWAY.
My favorite one to date is this one. One time someone said One CC is the Popes the rest are everyones elses.
That’s one of the best ones yet. Then again JB is still out there though. Sorry JB just kidding
But how do you deny the Apostles Church honestly but agree with their Creed, and their teachings?
I am really to hear about the ankle Ginger. Hope you feel better soon
izza::flowers:Do hope you heal quickly!
And I am so glad to see you have no problem with the Creed. Yes it is quiet clear in scripture. As with all of the RCC teaching’s. Nothing the CHurch teaches ever is opposite of the bible. After all it is the CHurch who indeed wrote it
But I do have a question if you do not mind. Now you agree with the creed. Now the creed states I believe in ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. Now that is the Apostles Creed so they lived by it.
How do you feel about the Apostles saying that the Church is Catholic? Oh I have heard so many people accept the Apostles teachings, and then turn around and deny their Church, You just would not believe some of the story’s I have heard from people to try to make that sentence GO AWAY.
My favorite one to date is this one. One time someone said One CC is the Popes the rest are everyones elses.
That’s one of the best ones yet. Then again JB is still out there though. Sorry JB just kiddingBut how do you deny the Apostles Church honestly but agree with their Creed, and their teachings?
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teak421
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The Calvinist is saying the same thing about you…“Oh my goodness, why doesn’t that Jonnybeth get it! He’s SO wrong… Its so plain in Scripture!”.So you do not see the truth in the previous post where beyond any shadow of doubt that the Holy Spirit leads each indiviual, one at a time, to the truth concerning God? You must have not even read it or did you and you still cannot see? I would believe and do believe what God has said and remember believers are not many wise; that includes me because God knows me
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Why do you boast in your Church so much?
but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
In case you have any doubts that you can do a thing about you own salvation; read above over and over.
What if you are as Proverbs said, “Leaning on your own understanding…” Can you look yourself in the mirror and say without a doubt that you are NOT leaning on your own understanding?
- Michael
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teak421
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I am looking forward to your response about the Early Church Fathers. Do you have any evidence that they believed in the OSAS doctrine. Please forward. And, if you can not produce evidence, then did they know God?So you do not see the truth in the previous post where beyond any shadow of doubt that the Holy Spirit leads each indiviual, one at a time, to the truth concerning God? You must have not even read it or did you and you still cannot see? I would believe and do believe what God has said and remember believers are not many wise; that includes me because God knows me
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Why do you boast in your Church so much?
but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
In case you have any doubts that you can do a thing about you own salvation; read above over and over.
Please answer.
- Michael
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
One sure test is shown by your understanding of God’s word and the leaning of that understanding comes from the residential Spirit of Truth. You claim the truth comes from the Church; therefore you tell me if God knows you or not?
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JohnnyBeth
Guest
Michael, nice talking with you; you show no serious interest in Scripture, therefore there is no point in further discussing the things of God with you; you show a lack of interest as I see it. Have a good day
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rinnie
Guest
Oh so then when Peter told them at Pentecost to repent it, it had no meaning to it at all?So you do not see the truth in the previous post where beyond any shadow of doubt that the Holy Spirit leads each indiviual, one at a time, to the truth concerning God? You must have not even read it or did you and you still cannot see? I would believe and do believe what God has said and remember believers are not many wise; that includes me because God knows me
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Why do you boast in your Church so much?
but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no man may boast before God. But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”
[SIGN]In case you have any doubts that you can do a thing about you own salvation[/SIGN]; read above over and over.
When God told us to follow the ten commandments, He was Just kidding. Rather we follow them or not we are saved?
We Boast in our Church so much because it is the Living Jesus Christ thats why,
I do got a question for you though. What about the devil he knows the truth concerning God. He knows better than anyone. But he CHOOSES to reject that truth and follow his own truth. Are you saying that the devil does not know First hand may I add who God is?
Are you saying that everyone who is shown the truth accepts it? Then how in the world can we have sin? Because I know the truth, but I still have sin? Now whats wrong here, are you trying to say that the HS has not found me? That my Baptism by the RCC was not the true pouring of the HS. What is your point?
And are you saying that you have no Sin? And if you admit you do, what do you do about it. Because according to you you cannot do anything?
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teak421
Guest
Yep. God (the Great I AM) knows every hair on my body. He also knew me in my mother’s womb… He knows me because he sent his only Begotten Son (The Messiah, as foretold in the Old Testament) who merited my salvation when he died on the Cross.
Oh yeah, he knows me…
- Michael
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teak421
Guest
May the Lord Bless and keep You…Michael, nice talking with you; you show no serious interest in Scripture, therefore there is no point in further discussing the things of God with you; you show a lack of interest as I see it. Have a good day
- Michael
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Luke65
Guest
Sure, my brother, here’s one:
St. Victorinus (270AD): “In the whole world Paul taught that all the churches are arranged by sevens, that they are called seven, and that the Catholic Church is one. And first of all, indeed, that he himself also might maintain the type of seven churches, he did not exceed that number. But he wrote to the Romans, to the Corinthians, to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Thessalonians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians; afterwards he wrote to individual persons, so as not to exceed the number of seven churches… Therefore in these seven churches, of one Catholic Church are believers, because it is one in seven by the quality of faith and election.” (Commentary on the Apocalypse, 1, 16)
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Ginger2
Guest
For those who have not heard of the Roman Creed - the Oldest Creed:
I believe in God the Father Almighty.
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,
who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary;
crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried;
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sits at the right hand of the Father,
from thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead.
And in the Holy Spirit;
the holy church;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the flesh.
This is not like the creeds we say today.
I believe in God the Father Almighty.
And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord,
who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary;
crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried;
the third day he rose from the dead;
he ascended into heaven,
and sits at the right hand of the Father,
from thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead.
And in the Holy Spirit;
the holy church;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the flesh.
This is not like the creeds we say today.
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