Protestant Liturgy?

[thephilosopher6]

How has Protestant liturgy, specifically Anglican and Lutheran liturgy. evolved over time?What was it like before Vatican II as I have heard Vatican II and the 1969 Pope Paul VI Mass did influence Protestantism.

 

[SteveLy]

Anglican changed after Vatican II. Before 1979 it was the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Google “1979 book of common prayer” and you will see a wealth of information. Some of the changes:

Change of theological focus.
3 year lectionaries from a 1 year.
Greater number of Eucharistic prayers.
Less focus on personal sin.
Modern language used instead of Elizabethan.
Gender neutral language and newer versions of Scripture authorized.

It caused as much controversy as VII in the Catholic Church.

Forum member GKC can probably give you more information on the Anglicans.

 

[steido01]

It was and is by no means universal practice in Lutheranism, but perhaps the most noticeable change Luther pushed for in the liturgy was switching the celebration of Holy Communiom to ad populum with the altar removed from the wall instead of ad orientum. The thinking was (mistakenly) that it was more like how Christ would’ve done it. While most of Lutheranism ignored Luther on that point, Rome thought is was great… 450ish years later.

 

[GKC]

Anglican changed after Vatican II. Before 1979 it was the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Google “1979 book of common prayer” and you will see a wealth of information. Some of the changes:

Change of theological focus.
3 year lectionaries from a 1 year.
Greater number of Eucharistic prayers.
Less focus on personal sin.
Modern language used instead of Elizabethan.
Gender neutral language and newer versions of Scripture authorized.

It caused as much controversy as VII in the Catholic Church.

Forum member GKC can probably give you more information on the Anglicans.

Maybe a comment or so on the 79.

Set form for auricular confession.
A shift of the Articles (don’t get me started) to a section for historical stuff.
A choice of Elizabethan flavored, or more contemporary flavored Rites.
Change of focus, as you say.

Anglican, in the sense I use it: 1928. Accept no substitutes, though one can add some things from the Missal, or use an occasional 1549 or 1662, on historical occasions.

 

[Picky_Picky]

Anglican changed after Vatican II. Before 1979 it was the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Google “1979 book of common prayer” and you will see a wealth of information. Some of the changes:

Change of theological focus.
3 year lectionaries from a 1 year.
Greater number of Eucharistic prayers.
Less focus on personal sin.
Modern language used instead of Elizabethan.
Gender neutral language and newer versions of Scripture authorized.

It caused as much controversy as VII in the Catholic Church.

Forum member GKC can probably give you more information on the Anglicans.

To clarify: you are describing the situation in the Episcopal Church, in the US. It does not apply to all Anglican churches. The CofE, for instance, uses the 1662 BCP, supplemented since 1980 by Modern English liturgies, first in the Alternative Service Book and then, beginning in 2000, Common Worship. I am not competent to describe any theological implications of those two Modern English liturgies.

 

[SteveLy]

To clarify: you are describing the situation in the Episcopal Church, in the US. It does not apply to all Anglican churches. The CofE, for instance, uses the 1662 BCP, supplemented since 1980 by Modern English liturgies, first in the Alternative Service Book and then, beginning in 2000, Common Worship. I am not competent to describe any theological implications of those two Modern English liturgies.

Yes, the US Episcopal Church. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Padres1969]

Anglican changed after Vatican II. Before 1979 it was the 1928 Book of Common Prayer. Google “1979 book of common prayer” and you will see a wealth of information. Some of the changes:

Change of theological focus.
3 year lectionaries from a 1 year.
Greater number of Eucharistic prayers.
Less focus on personal sin.
Modern language used instead of Elizabethan.
Gender neutral language and newer versions of Scripture authorized.

It caused as much controversy as VII in the Catholic Church.

Forum member GKC can probably give you more information on the Anglicans.

To be clear it’s debatable if changes to the Episcopal Church’s mass, COE mass, etc… were related to Vatican II rather than being related to the general tenor of the 60’s and 70’s as decades of extreme upheaval and change. I mean many of the things that Catholic and Anglican masses now share, such as versus populam celebration of the mass predated Vatican II on the Anglican side.

 

[GKC]

To be clear it’s debatable if changes to the Episcopal Church’s mass, COE mass, etc… were related to Vatican II rather than being related to the general tenor of the 60’s and 70’s as decades of extreme upheaval and change. I mean many of the things that Catholic and Anglican masses now share, such as versus populam celebration of the mass predated Vatican II on the Anglican side.

I go with the general tenor of the times. More’s the pity.

Anglican masses, as with Anglican things in general. will vary, of course. Never saw/attended a versus populum, myself.

 

[Padres1969]

I go with the general tenor of the times. More’s the pity.

Anglican masses, as with Anglican things in general. will vary, of course. Never saw/attended a versus populum, myself.

Really? Not once?

By the same token though I’ve never seen an Ad Orientem Anglican mass so I guess it shouldn’t surprise me you of all people GKC would end up having had the opposite experience. Motley is as motley does…

 

[GKC]

Really? Not once?

By the same token though I’ve never seen an Ad Orientem Anglican mass so I guess it shouldn’t surprise me you of all people GKC would end up having had the opposite experience. Motley is as motley does…

I’m a careful motley.

 

[Contarini]

To clarify: you are describing the situation in the Episcopal Church, in the US. It does not apply to all Anglican churches. The CofE, for instance, uses the 1662 BCP, supplemented since 1980 by Modern English liturgies, first in the Alternative Service Book and then, beginning in 2000, Common Worship. I am not competent to describe any theological implications of those two Modern English liturgies.

In practice the alternative modern liturgies seem to be used more often, though I did attnd a very lovely Evening Prayer in York Minster a few weeks ago using the BCP. On my previous trip to Britain in 2015, I attended a church in the Lake District which, for the main 11 AM service, didn’t use any discernible Anglican liturgy at all–it might have been a Baptist service. (In fact, ironically I found out later that the Baptists in that town have communion weekly–the Anglicans do too but only at 8). I understand that this “nonliturgical” worship is quite common in the C of E these days.

Edwin

 

[Picky_Picky]

In practice the alternative modern liturgies seem to be used more often, though I did attnd a very lovely Evening Prayer in York Minster a few weeks ago using the BCP. On my previous trip to Britain in 2015, I attended a church in the Lake District which, for the main 11 AM service, didn’t use any discernible Anglican liturgy at all–it might have been a Baptist service. (In fact, ironically I found out later that the Baptists in that town have communion weekly–the Anglicans do too but only at 8). I understand that this “nonliturgical” worship is quite common in the C of E these days.

Edwin

My own parish church usually offers at the least a BCP Communion on Sundays and a CW Communion during the week, with additional Communion, Morning Prayer and Evensong services of one form or the other, and I would be surprised if that were not the quite normal practice in the CofE, at least in rural parishes. But then it may all be motleyer than I thought, I suppose.

I have a suspicion, quite unsupported by research, that the ASB is still popular at weddings and funerals, because it retains the sonority of the BCP but in a language more attuned to the modern ear. The marriage of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge was ASB, if I remember aright.

 

[Picky_Picky]

Badly worded! By " of one form or the other" I didn’t mean to imply unauthorised liturgies: they are BCP or CW. Just that which liturgy is used on which day is determined by a pattern, probably monthly, of which I have failed to make myself aware. Holy Communion BCP Sunday, Holy Communion CW another day of the week, is an immovable arrangement, however.

 

[peter26]

The classic Anglican liturgy is the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. You can watch a video of the service here and read the text here. Its a beautiful liturgy and is heavily based on the concept of repentance of sins.

The modern Anglican liturgy is called Common Worship, and is essentially the second translation of the Roman Rite, minus some of the more Catholic language, shorter Eucharistic Prayers, but its basically the same words.

 

[GKC]

The classic Anglican liturgy is the 1662 Book of Common Prayer. You can watch a video of the service here and read the text here. Its a beautiful liturgy and is heavily based on the concept of repentance of sins.

The modern Anglican liturgy is called Common Worship, and is essentially the second translation of the Roman Rite, minus some of the more Catholic language, shorter Eucharistic Prayers, but its basically the same words.

Anglican extends beyond the CoE, in a number of ways.

 

[JonNC]

How has Protestant liturgy, specifically Anglican and Lutheran liturgy. evolved over time?What was it like before Vatican II as I have heard Vatican II and the 1969 Pope Paul VI Mass did influence Protestantism.

Catholicism has more influence over Lutheran practice than either care to admit, ISTM.
A good example is the lectionaries, and receiving the host. I was confirmed over 45 years ago receiving on the tongue. Now many Lutherans receive in the hand.

Little things.

 

[Faithdancer]

Anglican, in the sense I use it: 1928. Accept no substitutes, though one can add some things from the Missal, or use an occasional 1549 or 1662, on historical occasions.

:yup::yup:.

Though my sermons so far have tended to use the NKJV, since it’s faster prep and everyone can follow the verse by verse exegesis with their KJVs or whatever. I know some other Anglican preachers who use the ESV, one uses the Geneva (!). The Tyndale is “fun.”
For online classes it’s now the NIV or NET.
Oh, sorry…what was the question?

 

[Faithdancer]

Oh, I remember–liturgy!
Well, an online Daily Prayer app I use,* Australian Daily Prayer*, which I hope is put out by D. of Sydney, uses modem language and is ESV-based. I don’t know how much that’s influenced by V2, however.
(and Daily Prayer is liturgy, of course, as we discussed in my Notre Dame STEP Liturgical Theology course)