Protestant marriages/annulments

[sfleet]

So as a protestant exploring Catholicism the sacrament of marriage and the topic of annulments is a very confusing one.

I don’t understand how all protestant marriages aren’t invalid, isn’t the protestant “denomination” founded upon a king who said the state would decide if a marriage could be expunged? (i’m not saying that is correct in the eyes of God) However I am saying that is the message that is sent out to Protestants ever since the reformation, that divorce isn’t “good” or “wanted” but it is acceptable.

 

[heidi_storage]

isn’t the protestant “denomination” founded upon a king who said the state would decide if a marriage could be expunged?.

ONE Protestant denomination (and its affiliates)–the Church of England–was founded on Henry VIII as leader. The Protestant Reformation was a lot bigger and more complex than that one story.

I am sure you will receive lots of helpful information about the Catholic view of marriages, but do realize that Catholics presume marriages are valid until it can be shown that they are not.

 

[sfleet]

I understand that Henry VIII is only one denomination, but I’ve yet to come across another protestant denomination that doesn’t accept what the “state” says.

After reading about the Catholic view of Marriage and the sacrament I think I understand it and I do think it is beautiful. However the protestant view (in general) is that divorce is acceptable(not wanted or encouraged). So if protestants go into a marriage knowing (even if it is only a small thought in the back of their mind) that divorce is acceptable then why must it be presumed that the marriage is Valid if they don’t have the same understanding as Catholics?

Take a protestant who was baptized as a baby but is non-practicing and has a family history of divorce and remarriage that gets married. Why should it be presumed that that person’s view of marriage is the same as the Catholic view?

 

[Xantippe]

I understand that Henry VIII is only one denomination, but I’ve yet to come across another protestant denomination that doesn’t accept what the “state” says.

After reading about the Catholic view of Marriage and the sacrament I think I understand it and I do think it is beautiful. However the protestant view (in general) is that divorce is acceptable(not wanted or encouraged). So if protestants go into a marriage knowing (even if it is only a small thought in the back of their mind) that divorce is acceptable then why must it be presumed that the marriage is Valid if they don’t have the same understanding as Catholics?

Take a protestant who was baptized as a baby but is non-practicing and has a family history of divorce and remarriage that gets married. Why should it be presumed that that person’s view of marriage is the same as the Catholic view?

I don’t know how often this is done, but I believe it frequently happens that when Protestants convert, a convalidation is done.

 

[robwar]

So as a protestant exploring Catholicism the sacrament of marriage and the topic of annulments is a very confusing one.

I don’t understand how all protestant marriages aren’t invalid, isn’t the protestant “denomination” founded upon a king who said the state would decide if a marriage could be expunged? (i’m not saying that is correct in the eyes of God) However I am saying that is the message that is sent out to Protestants ever since the reformation, that divorce isn’t “good” or “wanted” but it is acceptable.

Protestant marriages are considered valid by the Catholic Church. I think you need to explore what annulment is and is not. I think there are a number of good links on Catholic Answers that can help you. There is a good book out called “Surprised by Cannon Law” and it is a beginners guide to cannon law and covers things like annulments.

 

[robwar]

I understand that Henry VIII is only one denomination, but I’ve yet to come across another protestant denomination that doesn’t accept what the “state” says.

After reading about the Catholic view of Marriage and the sacrament I think I understand it and I do think it is beautiful. However the protestant view (in general) is that divorce is acceptable(not wanted or encouraged). So if protestants go into a marriage knowing (even if it is only a small thought in the back of their mind) that divorce is acceptable then why must it be presumed that the marriage is Valid if they don’t have the same understanding as Catholics?

Take a protestant who was baptized as a baby but is non-practicing and has a family history of divorce and remarriage that gets married. Why should it be presumed that that person’s view of marriage is the same as the Catholic view?

I think you are lumping all Protestant groups together and there are a wide range of views on divorce and remarriage as there are Protestant groups. If you are becoming Catholic, focus on what the Catholic church teaches instead of trying to compare with various Protestant groups.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

We assume that all Catholic and non-Catholic marriages are valid out of charity. It is doubtless true that many marriages today have defects from a Christian point of view. One or both partners do not intend a permanent bond, do not intend to be faithful, are not open to life. However, we cannot conclude anything without investigation, and thus, must assume the best.

It is true that the Church of England schism was born out of Henry VIII’s desire for more wives. It is worth noting that, in the 1930’s, that same Church forbade the then King of England to marry a twice divorced woman.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I understand that Henry VIII is only one denomination, but I’ve yet to come across another protestant denomination that doesn’t accept what the “state” says.

After reading about the Catholic view of Marriage and the sacrament I think I understand it and I do think it is beautiful. However the protestant view (in general) is that divorce is acceptable(not wanted or encouraged). So if protestants go into a marriage knowing (even if it is only a small thought in the back of their mind) that divorce is acceptable then why must it be presumed that the marriage is Valid if they don’t have the same understanding as Catholics?

Take a protestant who was baptized as a baby but is non-practicing and has a family history of divorce and remarriage that gets married. Why should it be presumed that that person’s view of marriage is the same as the Catholic view?

Really it is because all marriages are presumed valid unless proved otherwise. It is the prudent thing to do.

Not all Protestants believe what you say about divorce, I know many who don’t believe in divorce. Regardless of what any denomination teaches, it is about the individuals involved and what they believe individually marriage to be.

If it was presumed all protestant marriages were invalid than all married Protestants would have to have their marriage examined to see if they need remarriage. To do that for 90% to accommodate the 10% divorced makes no sense.

 

[Usige]

I understand that Henry VIII is only one denomination, but I’ve yet to come across another protestant denomination that doesn’t accept what the “state” says.

After reading about the Catholic view of Marriage and the sacrament I think I understand it and I do think it is beautiful. However the protestant view (in general) is that divorce is acceptable(not wanted or encouraged). So if protestants go into a marriage knowing (even if it is only a small thought in the back of their mind) that divorce is acceptable then why must it be presumed that the marriage is Valid if they don’t have the same understanding as Catholics?

Take a protestant who was baptized as a baby but is non-practicing and has a family history of divorce and remarriage that gets married. Why should it be presumed that that person’s view of marriage is the same as the Catholic view?

Let’s use my wife and I as an example. I was raised Presbyterian and my parents divorced when I was 8. My wife was raised… uh… hippy christian…ish? They went to a place that taught the “Science of Mind and Spirit” and taught that Jesus was divine in a way that we are all divine. Her dad had been married and divorced atleast 4 times (perhaps 5) by the time we married. So with that background…

Within a couple months of dating we talked about if we married it would be for life. We had both seen how divorce messed up families so we committed that we would not consider divorce as an option. When we married in the Presbyterian Church I was raised in we were okay with having kids and saw our job as spouses to support the other.

In other words despite having very little contact with Catholics we still had an understanding of marriage as taught by the Church. Why? Because I believe that God is the author of marriage. He writes it into our souls. That many delude themselves into what they believe marriage is does not change the fact that marriage as defined by the Church has be practiced in many different cultures. That some religious communities now “allow it” does not mean that anyone in those communities cannot recognize true marriage as God intended.

 

[Usige]

Really it is because all marriages are presumed valid unless proved otherwise. It is the prudent thing to do.

Not all Protestants believe what you say about divorce, I know many who don’t believe in divorce. Regardless of what any denomination teaches, it is about the individuals involved and what they believe individually marriage to be.

If it was presumed all protestant marriages were invalid than all married Protestants would have to have their marriage examined to see if they need remarriage. To do that for 90% to accommodate the 10% divorced makes no sense.

 

[Adamski]

So as a protestant exploring Catholicism the sacrament of marriage and the topic of annulments is a very confusing one.

I don’t understand how all protestant marriages aren’t invalid, isn’t the protestant “denomination” founded upon a king who said the state would decide if a marriage could be expunged? (i’m not saying that is correct in the eyes of God) However I am saying that is the message that is sent out to Protestants ever since the reformation, that divorce isn’t “good” or “wanted” but it is acceptable.

Remember a priest doesn’t marry a couple he is only a witness a couple marrys each other

This is a huge topic you should look of Jim blackburn’s responses

 

[1ke]

So as a protestant exploring Catholicism the sacrament of marriage and the topic of annulments is a very confusing one.

I would suggest the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster for an excellent explanation of the Church’s teaching on marriage and decrees of nullity.

On a forum such as this, you are likely to get all sorts of tangents and also probably not a few inaccurate answers. So, I really suggest you check out the book to get a cohesive explanation.

I don’t understand how all protestant marriages aren’t invalid, isn’t the protestant “denomination” founded upon a king who said the state would decide if a marriage could be expunged?

Protestantism is made up of many denominations, with many origins. You refer to one-- the Church of England (now the Anglican Communion).

That’s not exactly what Henry did, either. Henry, a very learned Church scholar in his day, truly believed he was right and the Pope was wrong regarding his marriage, based on his knowledge of theology and church law. Henry got in a spat with the Pope, got himself excommunicated, and then set his own bishops up as the final authority on church matters in England. Of course those bishops agreed with him. Unfortunately Henry died before he healed the rift with the Church.

However I am saying that is the message that is sent out to Protestants ever since the reformation, that divorce isn’t “good” or “wanted” but it is acceptable.

That isn’t a universal message in Protestantism. And, when the couple exchanges vows they say they are marrying for life. The Church presumes the internal disposition of the will matches the words coming out of their mouths. The marriage is presumed valid. It would require external proof to the contrary to bring that consent into doubt.

And also remember the Church doesn’t just say Christian marriages are valid. Natural marriages involving the unbaptized-- Jews, Muslims, Hindus, atheists-- all are valid marriages.

The bar for a valid marriage isn’t as high as you are making it out to be.

 

[sfleet]

I beg to differ, it is pretty much a universal message. Outside of a few fundamentalist denominations the overall arching theme of divorce is acceptance.

While there isn’t a lot to participate in regarding their faith they aren’t excluded from anything within the church because of their divorce or remarriage. So yes the overall theme of acceptance is universal.

Just because people utter specific words that doesn’t mean that their faith denomination adheres to what they said.

 

[1ke]

Just because people utter specific words that doesn’t mean that their faith denomination adheres to what they said.

It doesn’t matter what their faith denomination says. People of no faith at all contract valid marriages.

It matters what THEY say, and the disposition of their will when they say it. It is their consent that manifests the marriage. The Church presumes they mean what they say, unless there is proof to the contrary.