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Bluegoat
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Just reread the thread.
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Saved_Lady
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As for our church, we do not think that divorce is accepted by Jesus Christ as is, but, We believe that if you ask forgiveness for that sin that it will be forgiven. For that reason, a man can not become a Deacon if he had been married more than once. We also believe that drinking alcoholic beverages is not for a christian to be doing, as I have seen most catholics believe is OK.
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rinnie
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I understand that is your belief but I must say I cannot agree with you. You must remember Jesus was also accused of this. But Jesus drank wine. And the bible says that drinking alcohol is not a sin. BUt it can be is you drink in excess. Food can also be a sin for people. The bible says being a glutton is a sin not drinking alcohol.
But if you want to accuse people who drink alcohol as not being a Christian you can add me to the list also, and the Pope and Jesus.
While you see it as Alcohol we as RC see it as everything if it is in excess. The bible says everything God has made is for the Good of man. Man makes it bad, Just like money can be good or evil. Sex, food, fun, you name it.
For some People yes they cannot stop and it can become a sin. But for others that can conduct themself in a respectiful manner I cannot agree with you. Alcohol can be controlled just like anything else. If it cannot you must stay away from it.
So as you see divorce as okay we as RC don’t and neither did Jesus. As you can condemn us all you want for drinking if you want but our Lord does not.
Something for YOU to think about. What about the last supper Jesus broke the bread and then took the WINE and said drink this. Did Jesus or did he not give wine to the Apostles. Please do not say thats different because it is not different. It was wine. It was alcohol. So I guess the Apostles are also in the same boat as Catholics.
Just something for you to think about. I would never accuse you as you have accused me, But I do disgree with you.
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rinnie
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So you go on to say that if you confess it, it is forgiven but then, you can remarry or what?
See in the RCC faith its once and for all for everyone. Yes the Priest has to be an example but then so do we. We are all held responsible for ours sins. See in the RCC if the marriage is considered valid they cannot re-marry in the church under any circumstances. ITs just not for certain people Gods rules go for all.
See in the RCC when you sin you confess that sin and sin no more. So if I commit adultery I confess that sin, but then I can’t do it again. See what I mean. So if the CHurch says I am married and I commit adultery, Sure I can be forgiven but then I can’t continue to commit adultery. So no re-marriage for me if my marriage is valid. I must accept my fate. Its alone for me if I want to obey Gods command. Or live in adultery if I refuse. ITs pretty simple really!
You kinda lost me here also. SO are you saying that it is not accepted or if you confess it then it is accepted?
So you go on to say that if you confess it, it is forgiven but then, you can remarry or what?
See in the RCC faith its once and for all for everyone. Yes the Priest has to be an example but then so do we. We are all held responsible for ours sins. See in the RCC if the marriage is considered valid they cannot re-marry in the church under any circumstances. ITs just not for certain people Gods rules go for all.
See in the RCC when you sin you confess that sin and sin no more. So if I commit adultery I confess that sin, but then I can’t do it again. See what I mean. So if the CHurch says I am married and I commit adultery, Sure I can be forgiven but then I can’t continue to commit adultery. So no re-marriage for me if my marriage is valid. I must accept my fate. Its alone for me if I want to obey Gods command. Or live in adultery if I refuse. ITs pretty simple really!
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Saved_Lady
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What I am trying to say is: That everyone sins, all sin is sin in the eyes of God. God will forgive sins if you confess and ask for forgiveness. We are held responsible for our sins, but do we NOT accept everyone that has sin in their life? That would mean that no one would be accepted because the Bible says, “There is not one that is righteous and without sin (Jesus was the only one without sin). If you say that you have no sin that the truth is not in you.” So tell me how do you accept anyone in your church, because everyone sins daily and re-sins daily. We do not throw people away because of their sin. We pray for them and accept them not their sin. You can love people and not agree with their lifestyle.[SIGN][/SIGN]
You kinda lost me here also. SO are you saying that it is not accepted or if you confess it then it is accepted?
So you go on to say that if you confess it, it is forgiven but then, you can remarry or what?
See in the RCC faith its once and for all for everyone. Yes the Priest has to be an example but then so do we. We are all held responsible for ours sins. See in the RCC if the marriage is considered valid they cannot re-marry in the church under any circumstances. ITs just not for certain people Gods rules go for all.
See in the RCC when you sin you confess that sin and sin no more. So if I commit adultery I confess that sin, but then I can’t do it again. See what I mean. So if the CHurch says I am married and I commit adultery, Sure I can be forgiven but then I can’t continue to commit adultery. So no re-marriage for me if my marriage is valid. I must accept my fate. Its alone for me if I want to obey Gods command. Or live in adultery if I refuse. ITs pretty simple really!
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Reuben_J
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I don’t know which church you are talking about but it is certainly not the Catholic Church. Unless I am missing something this is irrelevant to the subject of the thread. BTW, the Catholic Church is the only church that literally forgive sins of its members in the Sacrament of Confession.
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rinnie
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And yes we are all sinners. And yes love the sinner hate the sin. I am with you on that too. But to say if someone takes a drink they are a sinner I am lost there. Why is drinking a sin? WHo said it is? Is being a drunk a sin? Yep. If you cannot handle drinking and it rules your life yes it is a sin. But again does drinking a glass of wine or maybe 2 in that manner and conducting yourself in a respectiful manner how can you say that is something that a Christian should not be doing. And where is the scripture that says it is a sin.
And may I apologize also for accusing you of saying if you drink you are not a Christian. My mistake you said it is something a Christian should not be doing. WHile I still disagree with you, it was not what you said. My Bad.
Hi saved lady. Could you maybe explain this a little better to me. I understand and agree with you that we all have sin, and must confess and repent I am with you there.
And yes we are all sinners. And yes love the sinner hate the sin. I am with you on that too. But to say if someone takes a drink they are a sinner I am lost there. Why is drinking a sin? WHo said it is? Is being a drunk a sin? Yep. If you cannot handle drinking and it rules your life yes it is a sin. But again does drinking a glass of wine or maybe 2 in that manner and conducting yourself in a respectiful manner how can you say that is something that a Christian should not be doing. And where is the scripture that says it is a sin.
And may I apologize also for accusing you of saying if you drink you are not a Christian. My mistake you said it is something a Christian should not be doing. WHile I still disagree with you, it was not what you said. My Bad.
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CradleCath
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I’m going to try one more time. Divorce within the Catholic Church is allowed. It CAN be a sin, but not always. Often, it’s one party who wants a divorce &, if this party destroy’s a family, or hurts the children, causes great pain for the ex., etc. … that is the sin. Often the other partner fights to keep the family intact. So…the degree of sin may differ & sometimes one of the couple committs no sin. It’s the REMARRIAGE that is wrong. None of us are bound to live with a spouse prone to abuse, an alcoholic, or. in the case of which you speak…fornication ( adultery). We can separate &, should we need spousal maintenence, child support, etc., Catholics may obtain a civil divorce. HOWEVER, we may not REMARRY while the ex-spouse is still living, as only death can break the SACRAMENTAL, nuptial bond.
What God has put together, no man can separate. Therefore, in the eyes of God the marriage still exists, though it no longer consists of a physical bond, or an emotional one, the spiritual one is unbroken…until said divorcee "remarriages" or engages in fornication/adultery. That is the sin. A divorced Catholic is to remain a celibate. Easy…no, but as I said in another post, life isn’t neccesarily easy…that comes later, in heaven.
I confess I could have missed a post that has already addressed this…the fact that it is NOT the divorce that the Catholic Church condemns, it is REMARRIAGE. I could be wrong, but as far as I remember, Scripture does not say that ANY divorced person may enter another Sacramental Marriage.
Matt. 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18 - Jesus says that whoever **divorces and remarries **another commits adultery./SIZE]
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rinnie
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Cradle C. I agree with you. But what I was trying to get across to bluegoat is marriage as far as the church goes the couple are bound. So while they can be divorced according to the law, in the eyes of God and the CHurch they are still married and cannot remarry.
So divorce in the eyes of the CHurch is never accepted. Sure a piece of paper can say by law they are not married, but until the other dies they are married in the eyes of God, Thats what I tried to stress to bluegoat but its useless.
So divorce in the eyes of the CHurch is never accepted. Sure a piece of paper can say by law they are not married, but until the other dies they are married in the eyes of God, Thats what I tried to stress to bluegoat but its useless.
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BarbGl
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I can’t find the post relating to my comments below to quote (it was posted here a week or two ago), but I’ve been thinking about that post and wanted to make some remarks. Someone said that Protestants could rationalize and twist the will of God to suit their own desires in the matter of divorce, whereas Catholics can’t because we have the Church to guide us regarding marriage (something like that). I wanted to say that I don’t think Protestants have the corner on rationalizing and twisting God’s will. I also don’t think there is that big of a difference between what Catholics believe and Protestants as some think. I think both of us believe Jesus taught lifetime marriage, the sanctity of the marriage bonds, and whereas we have both the Bible and the Church to guide us, they have the Bible and often their individual congregations.
I think that people who do rationalize, thinking God is telling them what isn’t okay, is okay, have not really learned to listen to God. God speaks to all of us individually through a variety of ways - through prayer, through our conscience when we do something wrong, through anxiety when we are on the wrong path, through peace and blessings when we are on the right path. For example, I have a family member who is doing things I think are patently wrong (she got a divorce and got into an ill-advised other marriage shortly thereafter), but she says “God told me to do this” and is obviously very religious, quoting Bible verses to justify just about anything. However, God is speaking to her by a lot of negative things, difficulties and pain, that are happening to her right now. He is a loving God who allows some things to bring us back to Him.
I have learned that God will not tell us individually to do something that He expressly said the opposite in his Word or in the guidance of the Church. That is how you tell if you’re rationalizing or twisting what you heard. Also my way of being sure I’m hearing Him right is by being in His Presence through the Eucharist at Mass or Adoration. Maybe that is why some Protestants have more difficulty - they do have the Bible and some experience of God’s Presence, but not the Lord’s Real Presence in the Eucharist to guide them.
I think that people who do rationalize, thinking God is telling them what isn’t okay, is okay, have not really learned to listen to God. God speaks to all of us individually through a variety of ways - through prayer, through our conscience when we do something wrong, through anxiety when we are on the wrong path, through peace and blessings when we are on the right path. For example, I have a family member who is doing things I think are patently wrong (she got a divorce and got into an ill-advised other marriage shortly thereafter), but she says “God told me to do this” and is obviously very religious, quoting Bible verses to justify just about anything. However, God is speaking to her by a lot of negative things, difficulties and pain, that are happening to her right now. He is a loving God who allows some things to bring us back to Him.
I have learned that God will not tell us individually to do something that He expressly said the opposite in his Word or in the guidance of the Church. That is how you tell if you’re rationalizing or twisting what you heard. Also my way of being sure I’m hearing Him right is by being in His Presence through the Eucharist at Mass or Adoration. Maybe that is why some Protestants have more difficulty - they do have the Bible and some experience of God’s Presence, but not the Lord’s Real Presence in the Eucharist to guide them.
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gamewell45
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I know in my church, they frown upon divorce. In fact, when my wife and I approached our Priest to get married, since my wife had been divorced some years before, we had to receive a dispensation from the Bishop before we could get married in the church.
I do personally know of perhaps 5 or 6 former Roman Catholic individuals who joined our parish because they were divorced and couldn’t remarry in the RCC. That may not be the norm, but in this case thats what happened.
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rinnie
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No you are right that is what happens. That is why alot of RC do leave the Church. ITs sad but its the truth. Do not get me wrong there are many who do stay and accept the decision of the RCC but many as you stated do not. Thank you for your honest response.
If you do not mind me asking what is a Dispensation in your Church? What does it consist of and what does it mean. Again thanks
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gamewell45
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A Dispensation as explained to me by the Priest, is an authorization from a higher authority permitting him to administer the sacrament of marraige to a couple where one or both of them have been divorced.
In our case, prior to requesting a Dispensation, both my wife and I had to appear before our Priest and undergo pre-marital counselling over a period of time. In particular my wife had to share with the Priest the details on why she felt the prior marraige ended in divorce. After we completed the counselling, the Priest made his recommendation to the Bishop who made the final decision. Thats as best as I remember it as it happened over 21 years ago.
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rinnie
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Oh okay. Thank-you gamewell for sharing that with me. As you know our belief is quite different. But I do think it is good that your Priest did what he did. I can see how that could help alot. Again thank you for sharing this with me.
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Dettingen
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Surely you mean that it is God Who forgives sin, not the Catholic Church? And that forgiveness is obtained from God through the Sacrament of Reconciliation?
Pax,
Dettingen
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Saved_Lady
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My question means, are we not going to not accept anyone that has sin in their life? Because the bible says if we can’t forgive our brother that has sin, Jesus can not forgive us of our sins.
And taking a drink is not the sin, but endulging in drinking, in which a lot of cases that is where it leads, and what some do when they drink is the sin. So, it is best that you not partake in alcoholic beverages to keep temptations down. And if my church is against it, and I am part of that church and I drink it, I think that it ruins my testimony.
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Saved_Lady
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You talk about the Sacrament of Confession in the Catholic church for the forgiveness of sins, That is why we have an alter call and anyone with sin or prayers are welcome to come before God and pray and seek forgiveness for the sins in their life.
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rinnie
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Okay then what about sin? If I am going to be on the same train of thinking as you what if you sin? See my church forbids sin. But what about the people who do not take a drink and sin anyway?
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Okay then what about sin? If I am going to be on the same train of thinking as you what if you sin? See my church forbids sin. But what about the people who do not take a drink and sin anyway?
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rinnie
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[SIGN]/SIGN Okay then why did Jesus give Peter and the apostles the power to forgive sin if he wanted us to just make a altar call. Why didn’t Jesus say ALTAR CALL! Why did he forgive sins in this world and then give the power to the Apostles to follow?
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rinnie
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Trust me saved lady no one needs a drink to sin! If thats what it took we could all be saved and would never have to confess our sin.
And the catholic church does acknowledge sin, and forgiveness if they didn’t why would we have confession?
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