Protestant Message Boards

[Atreyu]

While the Catholic Answers forums were down, I decided to go over and check out a Protestant message board, to try and gain some perspective. As my girlfriend (and hopefully soon to be fiance) is a Presbyterian, it is important to me to try and understand Protestantism as much as possible. It is also important to my girlfriend that I do as much research into Protestantism as possible, to see if it might be the Truth after all. I’m actually hoping that, once I do gain a better understanding of Protestantism, that I’ll be able to use the inconsistencies that I find to help show my girlfriend that Catholicism is the Truth.

Anyways, to begin with I went and checked out the Westminster Confession of Faith. In there, there is a clause on the Pope, and it names him as the Antichrist. Then it lists some references from the Bible to “prove” this claim. So I went and googled a Protestant message board, and after an introductory thread, I listed this claim and then attempted to refute it, purely from the Bible. I actually think I was quite successful in doing so. I then asked the question, (paraphrasing myself) “how can the Presbyterian Church continue to have this clause in there when I have shown that it is clearly false?” Now while some people disagreed with me, they actually didn’t really give me any evidence why I was wrong.

I also started two other threads, one on Mary (trying to understand the Protestant position on Mary), and one on Peter, the rock. In this thread I was trying to show that Peter was the rock, but at the same time I was trying to say that that, in and of itself, does not prove the Papacy. Indeed (as I argued), many Protestant scholars believe that Peter is the rock. I again argued only from the Bible, and I quoted one Protestant scholar on the subject.

Since then I haven’t been banned exactly, but the moderators are taking steps to try and change my behaviour. Several months ago I tried another Protestant forum and got banned within about a week, so this time I really tried to be careful to be polite, and I was sure that I complied with the rules of the forums.

But something occurred to me. If the situation were reversed, and there was a Protestant who came to this board and said some similar things to me, then (so long as he was polite), there wouldn’t be any problem. Indeed, if I saw somebody on these boards trying to refute a particular canon of the catechism (I hope my terminology is correct here), then I would take it upon myself as a challenge to show where he was wrong. I certainly wouldn’t see it as a problem in any way. Indeed, it’s only natural that somebody in the Protestant faith would have questions about apparent inconsistencies in the Catholic faith!

And so my conclusion from this is that the two Protestant boards that I have visited are both paranoid about Catholics. Why don’t they take it as a challenge to show where I am wrong? And indeed, why can’t they show that I am wrong? We had a really interesting discussion about Peter, but nobody could convincingly show that - from the text - there is any way in which Peter could not be the rock. Now I can only wonder if somebody of a different faith, perhaps JW or Mormon, would receive a similar response that I did.

What do people (both Catholics and Protestants) think about this? If you want to check out my posts (the ones that remain), they are at this address (my user name there is atreyu). Also, if you see anywhere in there that I’ve been impolite, please point it out to me! I always strive to be polite but sometimes it is really difficult!

Thanks and God bless, sorry about the long read
Stu.

 

[EA_Man]

If you want a balanced (IMHO) Protestant view of Mary.

Go Here :markdroberts.com/htmfiles/resources/protestantmary.htm

Some Protestants acknowledge Peter as the Rock (i.e. R.T. France), but do not find any Biblical evidence for the establishment of a permanent office. They view the events recorded in Acts and the NT as the completion of the Petrine “office”.

Peace

 

[scylla]

Can you expand on that please EA… Do they believe that then the Church was just left to individual guidance through the Holy Spirit, or separate individual groups.(bishoprics?) Or a spiritual unity of believers as most Protestant denominations believe.

When I was in Calvary Chapel they were very unclear about all this.

Thanks
Scylla

 

[EA_Man]

scylla:

Can you expand on that please EA… Do they believe that then the Church was just left to individual guidance through the Holy Spirit, or separate individual groups.(bishoprics?) Or a spiritual unity of believers as most Protestant denominations believe.

Are those mutually exclusive? I’m not trying to be obtuse.
It would seem to me that the Holy Spirit certainly guides individuals. And those individuals congregate into groups led by bishops or deacons. And all Christians do have unity in Jesus Christ.

But it seems as though Atreyu’s point is that a Protestant is treated better in general at CAF than a Catholic is at Protestant forums. To me I think it all depends on what forums you visit and when. Forums are open to all and only after bad behavior are people suspended.

Peace

 

[scylla]

The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth if you follow it, but if you follow your own desires you make your own truth.

All Christians have unity in Jesus Christ, but there is a huge disunity in beliefs. To the point in some having unity in Jesus Christ but condemning all others who don’t hold to their formula for salvation. My brother is a good example of this he goes to a Rod Parsley church.
But that is another thread…
(Maybe I will start one next week after I get back into town)

Or maybe we should start a thread to discuss this, which might be interesting. Regarding the continuation of the Petrine office, unity of belief, how some Protestants view the early church.

I am not so sure about the forum thing, some forums are a lot more charitable than others, some are downright scary in their rudeness and prejudices.

I have seen you can pretty much post any question here and get an answer as long as you respond to the responses and don’t just list a whole bunch of Lorraine Bottner quotes, or Bible verses without listening.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[EA_Man]

scylla:

I am not so sure about the forum thing, some forums are a lot more charitable than others, some are downright scary in their rudeness and prejudices.

Rather than list every regrettable or prejudiced forum, how about we agree that both good and bad exist.

My recommendation is that when faced with unreasoning prejudice it is best to shake the dust of that “town” off of your shoes as a judgement against them and go on your way.

Peace

 

[Mickey]

EA_Man:

My recommendation is that when faced with unreasoning prejudice it is best to shake the dust of that “town” off of your shoes as a judgement against them and go on your way.

That must mean that you like most of us!

 

[Sir_Knight]

Banned from the Free Conservatives Discussion Board on July 4, 2005 for expressing Catholic beliefs.

 

[Egg4christ]

You have to understand, though, that this is an Apologetics forum. It is perfectly acceptable for someone to come in here raving a crazy belief, because many people are here to debate. Most of the forums you are visiting are meant as communities. Those who ban Catholics from these forums are merely protecting their flock
Let me put it this way. Although you don’t mind me openly arguing on this forum, you would be quite upset if i burst through the doors during Mass saying the same thing. Or what about a Fellowship meeting at your church. Everyone is standing around, enjoying a potluck, and in i come, debating your faith. Sure, you’d tolerate me for a while, but if you were in charge of running the event, you would eventually throw me out for distrubing your patrons.
As you’ve seen, there are many protestants who love a good debate. Unfortunately, i’ve yet to come across a forum where the protestants gather to debate. until then, you’ll have to battle us here.

 

[boppysbud]

Atreyu, which Protestant discussion board are you talking about?

While there are plenty of radical hate-filled sites out there, the huge majority of Presbyterians know about nothing in regard to the Westminster Confession, tulip Calvinism, or the Holy Father being the “whore of Babylon”. About the only thing that Presbyterians know about the WC is that it appears in the Presbyterian “Book of Confessions”. And the only Presbyterians who are required to give assent (have a basic knowledge) to the Book of Confessions are Elders and Deacons.

Its kind of obvious that you got ahold of one of the sites belonging to a splinter fundamentalist schismatic group.

You wont find that kind of thing on a web site belonging to the Presbyterian Church in the USA, the main stream church that holds the huge majority of American Presbyterians.

IOWs don’t worry about it, it’s just a tiny croup of crackpots.

 

[Atreyu]

I think Egg4Christ really hit the nail on the head. I think I now kind of understand what they’re on about, and why they’re upset. I guess basically I just went to the wrong forum, but it would be nice if there was a Protestant apologetics forum out there somewhere! Does anyone know of one?

And Boppy there’s a link in my opening post that has the address of the forum

 

[Liberian]

Stu,

I’ve been looking at your posts on the other board and don’t see anything that I would say was worthy of banning you. The Peter thread seems to have been removed entirely.

I have heard that the Baptist Boards don’t let Catholics in at all.

When I am posting on a Protestant board I try to avoid statements of objective truth–by which I mean that I use the wording “The Catholic Church teaches that " rather than " is true.” Both statements are true, and the former keeps people listening longer … I hope.

• Liberian

 

[viktor_aleksndr]

hey! nice defense there eh?! You really defended tha Catholic Church and i am just laughing on the threads of these protestants. One said that faith alone is enough, the other said that the teachings of the pope is fallible so that is why she leave the church (she just dont understand the teachings).

The problem I see with it is 1. Mary is a human, God is an eternal divine being, so she can’t be His mother. 2. God was not created, so He can’t have a mother. 3. This places Mary is a position above God, and God is above all.

So Mary is not Jesus mother? wow! She should read obstetrics. How can a baby born without a mother? well unless Jesus Christ was a product of some advance science which is developed in a glass (like in movies). Yes, Jesus was not made but begotten but Jesus was born like a human baby. I wonder were Jesus came out when he was born? I dont think that He fell from heaven.

1. This is not an RCC board. At any rate just like any denomination you can find extremists ( in both directions) as well as people in the middle.
   Also, RCC **does not **equal catholic.
   The RCC is the most well known branch of the catholic denomination.
   But the RCC does not represent or control all catholics.

Are Protestants Catholic? I know that the Catholic Church was only divided into two. the eastern and western.

 

[Catherine_S]

EA_Man:

Rather than list every regrettable or prejudiced forum, how about we agree that both good and bad exist.

My recommendation is that when faced with unreasoning prejudice it is best to shake the dust of that “town” off of your shoes as a judgement against them and go on your way.

Peace

!!

I quoted this scripture to several non denominational friends who had become far** too** arrogant and too self righteous for me to** remain in relationship with them.** I used this scripture to instruct them on what one** is to do** when someone such as myself (a die hard Catholic)** refuses to accept their** truth.
When asked "what are we going to do to get you to open your eyes to the truth" ? I told them what Christ had said one should do when folks refuse to listen !!!
Placing the ball in their court worked !! I have not heard from them for over a month!** R**elief was just a quote away **!!! When in Rome do as the Romans do!! **
The brick wall :banghead: back and forth game…is just not my cup of tea !!!
God Bless You,
Shalom,
Catherine

 

[Malachi4U]

Atreyu,

I noticed your girlfriend is getting you to study Protestantism, is she studying Catholicism? It’s only fair for you both to study each others theology.

I have been going to baptist.org/ lately. They have not kicked me off - yet. It’s the only Baptist forum that will let me post when they know I’m Catholic. I’ve not been there long and they have kicked other polite Catholics out for proving the Catholic theology correct and the errors in theirs. I like that site because it is always entertaining to see how Baptists revise and rewrite history or how they add to Scripture in violation of their own rules - ok, they don’t really have any rules now do they? Give them a try. They ain’t Presbyterian but they is Protesters.
Get your girlfriend to read some Catholic books like “Home Sweet Rome” and “Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic”, etc… Show her in Scripture where your Faith comes from. Make sure you pray with her too. Shine your Faith like a brilliant light upon her so that her Protestant wall casts an ugly shadow.

By the way, my wife is Protestant. Mostly Baptist. Think long and hard before you suffer the horrors of marrying a Protestant. What Church will you go to? Will you murder the unborn child and flush it down the toilet while useing the pill or IUD’s? Rasie kids loyal to Jesus and His Catholic Church or as schismatic Protestants whith not standards? Is Church hopping really Christian? Are children a gift from God and our purpose in marriage? What does her family think of you and Christs body, His Catholic Church? Etc…

I was a Protestant attending a Baptist sect when I became Catholic. My wifes Baptist friends told her to divorace me, her family tried to pay her to leave me, need I go on about those times? We still have difficult issues today. Think long and hard about marriage to a Protestant and understand the dificulties you are in for by remaining loyal to Jesus and His Catholic Church. Is your love for Jesus greater then your love for your girlfriend? You need to love Jesus more then your own life or family.

 

[Lazerlike42]

Malachi4U:

Atreyu,

I noticed your girlfriend is getting you to study Protestantism, is she studying Catholicism? It’s only fair for you both to study each others theology.

I have been going to baptist.org/ lately. They have not kicked me off - yet. It’s the only Baptist forum that will let me post when they know I’m Catholic. I’ve not been there long and they have kicked other polite Catholics out for proving the Catholic theology correct and the errors in theirs. I like that site because it is always entertaining to see how Baptists revise and rewrite history or how they add to Scripture in violation of their own rules - ok, they don’t really have any rules now do they? Give them a try. They ain’t Presbyterian but they is Protesters.
Get your girlfriend to read some Catholic books like “Home Sweet Rome” and “Born Fundamentalist Born Again Catholic”, etc… Show her in Scripture where your Faith comes from. Make sure you pray with her too. Shine your Faith like a brilliant light upon her so that her Protestant wall casts an ugly shadow.

By the way, my wife is Protestant. Mostly Baptist. Think long and hard before you suffer the horrors of marrying a Protestant. What Church will you go to? Will you murder the unborn child and flush it down the toilet while useing the pill or IUD’s? Rasie kids loyal to Jesus and His Catholic Church or as schismatic Protestants whith not standards? Is Church hopping really Christian? Are children a gift from God and our purpose in marriage? What does her family think of you and Christs body, His Catholic Church? Etc…

I was a Protestant attending a Baptist sect when I became Catholic. My wifes Baptist friends told her to divorace me, her family tried to pay her to leave me, need I go on about those times? We still have difficult issues today. Think long and hard about marriage to a Protestant and understand the dificulties you are in for by remaining loyal to Jesus and His Catholic Church. Is your love for Jesus greater then your love for your girlfriend? You need to love Jesus more then your own life or family.

I’d agree, but (not having read the rest of the thread) I’d also recommend doing all you can to help her see the truth, firstly for God’s sake, secondly for her sake, and thirdly because love isn’t easy to find. And I’d pray, for her and or her family and for understanding of how to handle things and help her. And poke around here: there’s lots of info on how to help people see the truth. I always recommend starting by showing them something almost insignificant. Show her some Catholic truth that is clearly in the Bible that is so unimportant she will never have heard the objection to it, or it won’t seem worth enough to argue about. Once she sees the Church can be right about that one thing, she may be more open to seeing what else they may be right about.

 

[Philthy]

Atreyu:

What do people (both Catholics and Protestants) think about this? If you want to check out my posts (the ones that remain), they are at this address (my user name there is atreyu). Also, if you see anywhere in there that I’ve been impolite, please point it out to me! I always strive to be polite but sometimes it is really difficult!

Thanks and God bless, sorry about the long read
Stu.

I went to the posts - they seemed like nice enough people, but there was no BEEF to the responses. Weak posters attempting to defend complicated issues. One of the “best” of them gave the old petros vs petra refutation…ho hummm…we’ve seen that one or two hundred times. The clear inability to soundly support a core statement of the Westminster Profession of Faith says it all to me. The “profession” simply hasn’t lived up to its claims: having known JP2, it is easy for us to see this part of their creed for what it is: a lie.

Phil

 

[Atreyu]

Thanks Malachi. It is something that I have thought about quite a bit. And actually her father is Catholic, albeit non-practicing. I was actually considering going to him for help, but that would have been easier if he was practicing! I think the number 1 thing that she really struggles with is authority; she simply can’t see that the Bishop of Rome has authority. She can see that Peter was the Rock upon which Jesus built His church, but she can’t see that that authority was passed on to his successors in Rome. Oh and I have Rome Sweet Home. My girlfriend is in Mauritius at the moment (with her father’s very Catholic family) and when she gets back I’m going to make her read it! I was also considering asking her to take RCIA classes with me next year. As I am yet to be confirmed, I think it would really help me to take these classes. And as I have spent about a year looking into her adopted religion, I think it’s only fair that she returns the favour!

 

[Malachi4U]

Atreyu:

… I think the number 1 thing that she really struggles with is authority; she simply can’t see that the Bishop of Rome has authority…

Just point out to her that the subject of authority is written about numerous times in scripture, she just overlooks them. Loyalty to the Church leaders is written about in Scripture too but it too I guess is overlooked by her.

Read the Bible with her and let her know when it contridicts her - politely of course!