protestant music at Mass - help!

[Franciscum]

Trelow:

Neither song is about absolute assurance of salvation.

Amazing Grace is about the transforming power of God’s grace. Because He Lives is about finding hope in Jesus to deal with troubles of today.

Not so. Amazing Grace is a Protestant hymn through and through. It illustrates the heretical Protestant notion of salvation. It has no place in a Catholic church, yet it’s secular popularlity often makes it a favorite of “Catholic” music directors…

 

[Trelow]

Franciscum:

Not so. Amazing Grace is a Protestant hymn through and through. It illustrates the heretical Protestant notion of salvation. It has no place in a Catholic church, yet it’s secular popularlity often makes it a favorite of “Catholic” music directors…

No its about salvation by GRACE alone.

So is Catholicism.

If it was Amazing Faith. Or Amazing Predestination. Then you would have a point.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=23697

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

Amazing Grace is a Protestant hymn through and through.

So what?

It illustrates the heretical Protestant notion of salvation.

There is no single “Protestant notion of salvation.” And many (most?) Protestants do not believe in absolute assurance anyways.

If it was Amazing Faith. Or Amazing Predestination.

What would be wrong with “Amazing Faith”?

And Predestination is a dogma of the Catholic Church, too, when this is properly understood.

I suppose, though, a Calvinist hymn titled “Amazing Double-Predestination” would be problematic . . .

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

Oh, and for what it’s wrong, Amazing Grace is one of the hymns found in the Breviary, under Vespers for the Common of Martyrs.

 

[pnewton]

“Amazing Grace” actually has a thread dedicated to this topic.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=7264

This is the only time so far that I have found myself in disagreement with Karl Keating… sort of. While I see that an implied absolute assurance of salvation can be seen in the lyrics, this doctrine is not explicitely mandated by the lyrics.

What I like about the song lyrics is the emphasis on grace, especially in the second verse. As a Catholic, I have a much greater problem falling into a sin of pride, than of confusing Catholic theology for protestant errors. It is helpful to be reminded that everything we are and have is by God’s grace.

 

[justinmatter]

“Amazing Grace” actually has a thread dedicated to this topic.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=7264

This is the only time so far that I have found myself in disagreement with Karl Keating… sort of. While I see that an implied absolute assurance of salvation can be seen in the lyrics, this doctrine is not explicitely mandated by the lyrics.

What I like about the song lyrics is the emphasis on grace, especially in the second verse. As a Catholic, I have a much greater problem falling into a sin of pride, than of confusing Catholic theology for protestant errors. It is helpful to be reminded that everything we are and have is by God’s grace.

i would think that no matter how inspiring you find certain parts of a hymn, perhaps it does need to be rejected if there are parts in it which go against catholic doctrine.
at the very least, one needs to reject those parts of the hymn that explicitly go against the church’s doctrine instead of acepting the whole song because parts are great. that would be like jesus accepting the whole proposition of satan during his temptation because satan couched it in bible verses (i admit it’s an extreme example- PLEASE, i’m not trying to equate protestant music or protestants with satan!!!)

i’ve been following this thread closely and it seems to me we can accept the salvation verses in such songs as the hope/moral assurance of salvation. thanks for your help guys.
will keep following this closely

 

[Trelow]

DominvsVobiscvm:

So what?

There is no single “Protestant notion of salvation.” And many (most?) Protestants do not believe in absolute assurance anyways.

What would be wrong with “Amazing Faith”?

And Predestination is a dogma of the Catholic Church, too, when this is properly understood.

I suppose, though, a Calvinist hymn titled “Amazing Double-Predestination” would be problematic . . .

Touche.

Guess that’s what I get for trying to be a smart-***.

 

[Exalt]

I sing with the music ministry that plays at our sunday 5:00 pm mass that alot of our teens go to. Quite a few of our songs (maybe 30%) come from protestant writers. The lyrics, however, are from a theology of what CS Lewis would call “mere christianity.” That is, the “basics” that most Christians would accept. (i.e., Jesus saves us from our sin, God’s word enlightens us, giving praise to God and Jesus is valuable, etc)

Every now and then, however, we will change the lyrics so that they are more catholic. For example, in the song “Breathe”, we change the lyrics in one part from “This is my daily bread: your very word, spoken to me” to “This is my daily bread: your very body, broken for me” - which emphasises the Eucharist as “my daily bread.”

 

[mercygate]

Y’all gotta get yerself a copy of this absolute sine qua non for anyone interested in Catholic hymnody:

**Brightest And Best
**
Author: Rutler, George William
Paperback
230 pages
Ignatius Press
ISBN: 0898706718

This collection of great hymns from the early Patristic period to the twentieth century offers inspiring accounts of their authors, composers and events connected to these hymns, as well as their significance for theology and music. It comes at a time of musical impoverishment in worship and general liturgical chaos, but also a time of sober reflection and the widespread desire to recover a rich musical legacy.This book is unique as a Catholic study of hymnody. This collection introduces Catholics to many forgotten works of their own tradition, as well as many great hymns still sung today. **It also treats sacred song from the Byzantine and Protestant cultures which are suitable for Catholic doxology. **

 

[Brendan]

pnewton:

“Amazing Grace” actually has a thread dedicated to this topic.

On the plus side, you can sing the lyrics to the Gilligan’s Island song to “Amazing Grace”. That usually gets a few choice looks from the people in the nearby pews

 

[Meggie]

Exalt:

Every now and then, however, we will change the lyrics so that they are more catholic. For example, in the song “Breathe”, we change the lyrics in one part from “This is my daily bread: your very word, spoken to me” to “This is my daily bread: your very body, broken for me” - which emphasises the Eucharist as “my daily bread.”

please note the part i bolded, its not just a “Cathoic” version but a lisenced part of the song.
You could buy a CD with these words, as well as the others…

 

[Prometheum_x]

Exalt:

Every now and then, however, we will change the lyrics so that they are more catholic. For example, in the song “Breathe”, we change the lyrics in one part from “This is my daily bread: your very word, spoken to me” to “This is my daily bread: your very body, broken for me” - which emphasises the Eucharist as “my daily bread.”

That isn’t more Catholic though. It may be more specific to Catholicism, but the faithful Catholic can also just as truthfully sing, “This is my daily bread, your very Word, spoken to me.”

 

[Prometheum_x]

pnewton:

As a Catholic, I have a much greater problem falling into a sin of pride, than of confusing Catholic theology for protestant errors. It is helpful to be reminded that everything we are and have is by God’s grace.

I share in your problem. The fact that the Church is so true makes it particularly tempting to fall into pride, for, whereas before when I was not Catholic there was often no expectation for being sure of the correct answer (which church has it right?), now that I am in the Church I can say “Aha, I am now equipped to find all the answers to all things I want to know about and I can be right! There is a right way to do everything, and I can find it, and I can prove it is right (by showing everyone else how miserably wrong they are)!”

 

[Erich]

Brendan:

On the plus side, you can sing the lyrics to the Gilligan’s Island song to “Amazing Grace”.

And vice versa!

Also, the lyrics to “Clementine” can be sung to the tune of Beethoven’s “Ode to Joy.” Similarly I would imagine that the “Ode to Joy” lyrics could be sung to the tune of “Clementine”.

 

[pnewton]

DominvsVobiscvm:

I suppose, though, a Calvinist hymn titled “Amazing Double-Predestination” would be problematic . . .

Especially when you tried to find a word that rhymes with “double-predestination”.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Especially when you tried to find a word that rhymes with “double-predestination”.

How about “trouble-free restoration”?

Dang. We could do a great commercial.

 

[Erich]

Anyone who heard Prairie Home Companion on 12/11/04 also knows you can sing “Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow” to the tune of the well-known tango “Fernando’s Hideaway”

 

[davy39]

Here we go again about the music thing. Actually, I always liked Amazing Grace. Because he lives was written by Bill Gaither, who I think has championed the cause of christian music in this country. I agree that some of the songs in our hymnals are pretty strange, but music is a matter of individual taste. Our organist presents the music she will play to our priest before Mass. If he approves, that’s usually good enough for me. Although one time, a replacement organist played The Sound of music at communion time. That was a little much! God bless. and Merry Christmas.

 

[DaveBj]

Erich:

Anyone who heard Prairie Home Companion on 12/11/04 also knows you can sing “Praise God From Whom All Blessings Flow” to the tune of the well-known tango “Fernando’s Hideaway”

Putting familiar words with familiar, but unlikely melodies has been a hobby of mine. How about “Amazing Grace” to the tune of “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing”?

On a serious note, Fr’s Trigilio and Brighenti in Catholicism for Dummies point out that Catholicism and Evangelicalism is in agreement on 85% of the overall body of theology. Given that, it’s not surprising that hymns from “Protestant” writers wind up in Catholic hymnals and missalettes.

I have an idea. Rather than thinking of them as hymns from “Protestant” writers, how about thinking of them as hymns from writers who happen to be “separated brethren?” If the words don’t contradict or deny the Catholic Faith, where’s the heartburn? Otherwise, I’m going to have to throw away every song I wrote while I was a Protestant and start over.

DaveBj

 

[Chickamauga]

I guess the Battle Hymn of the Republic is a Protestant song too.

Someone had better tell that to the ultra-orthodox Poor Clare Nuns of Perpetual Adoration who included it as the finale on their **O Divino Nino Jesus CD. **

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