protestant nuns?

[Gordon_N]

Maccabees:

Lutheran nuns considering Luther spoke about the evils of the the monastic life and married a runaway nun he would find the idea of Lutheran nuns ridiculous. Guess they didn’t get the message.
Another example of protestants forgetting their heritage.

One of the constants in life is change. Luther posted his edicts and left the Church to carry on what he thought was the “proper” way to worship God. The fact that over time things have become skewed from it’s original intent (such as Luther disdaining monastic life and hence nuns, and there now exist lutheran nuns) is shown in the fact that Luther was a believer in Marion doctrine. History shows us that he loved the Blessed Virgin, and was quite devout to her in his daily life. A qoute from Martin Luther:
"Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of us all. If Christ be ours . . . all that he has must be ours, and His Mother also must be ours."
Mary is one of the biggest issues that protestants (to include lutherans) have with the Catholic Church. Why is that if he believed in her?

A few links:
legionofmary.org/luther.html
ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ95.HTM
thehistorybuff.com/luther.html

These topics are good examples of folks forgetting (or ignoring) their heritage…

God Bless you!

 

[Maccabees]

O.S. Luke:

Maccabees, not all Protestants were born of Lutheran descent. in fact, not all “Protestants” are protestant.

In reply to the thread, find this article in the National Catholic Reporter about a Methodist monastery.

O+

I never said all Protestants were Lutheran.
My point is that the Reformers like Luteher, Zwingli etc were fromer priest who wrote about the evils of the monastic life left celeibacy and got married. They wrote about the non-redeeming value of a celibate life and the monastic life as a total waste. This is the protestant legacy. While it is true there were remnants of monastics that chose to be in the Reformed movement most left the monastic life altogether and if true to the teachings of the Reformers they wouldn’t have stayed monastic. The only church that encouraged monastic life would be the Anglican church and they are the only protestants with a signficant monastic life the other groups are a mere anomally.
And Yes all Protestants are Protestants no matter how catholic they look or immitate. A fake Rolex watch is still a fake no matter how close it comes to looking like a Rolex this Methodist group that makes itself as Benedectine is clearly fooling itself. Join the real Benedictines and the real catholic church and stop the farce already.

 

[Contarini]

:The only church that encouraged monastic life would be the Anglican church:

Actually that’s only true from the 19th century on, and the revival of monasticism was very controversial.

: and they are the only protestants with a signficant monastic life the other groups are a mere anomally.:

There’s no such thing as a “mere anomaly.” If it exists it exists. You’re trying to explain away the plain facts.

:And Yes all Protestants are Protestants no matter how catholic they look or immitate.:

Therefore, if Protestants have monasticism monasticism is compatible with Protestantism. It’s as simple as that.

: A fake Rolex watch is still a fake no matter how close it comes to looking like a Rolex this Methodist group that makes itself as Benedectine is clearly fooling itself.:

How are they fooling themselves? If they follow the Rule, then they are Benedictines.

: Join the real Benedictines and the real catholic church and stop the farce already.:

Rudeness of this sort does no one any good. I recognize that our recovery of our Catholic heritage frustrates you, but we aren’t going to stop for all that. Catholic-minded Protestants are here to stay. As long as we perceive truth and validity in our own tradition, we are going to find it difficult to convert to your communion rather than recovering the Catholic heritage while remaining Methodists or Anglicans or whatever. And immature taunts such as yours certainly do not help change our minds on this point.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[Maccabees]

Wait a minute a recovery of Catholic heritage? Your Protestant your heritage is Luther, Calvin, Cramner not Saint Benedict and Saint Francis. More like a denial of your roots as Protesters. If you really
want to rediscover your catholic heritage become catholic and stop kidding yourself. Gee I should rediscover my Protestant heritage and dress like a Pilgrim oh wait a minute that would be insane Catholic heritage is in complete contradiction with Protestant roots.
Here’s a clue rediscover your catholic heritage by reading the Pope’s encyniclas.
High Church Protestants love the look and feel of catholcism yet are intellecutally dishonest when they refuse to accept full catholic teaching and that what catholcism is full christian teaching. You have been around this board forever Contrani and catholics have given you a fair shake while you have not returned the favor so stop crying wolf that your offended and now won’t consider catholcism. We seek to exchange truth but you just want to pretend to be catholic wihtout accepting catholic teaching.
That is the crux of your problem and not any memeber here.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Maccabees:

The Lord be with you.

If I called you a Roman Catholic, I would expect you to be offended. Offer me the same courtesy. Or don’t.

My Methodist roots emerged as a society or Rule from the Anglican tradition… which runs a very different line from Luther’s protesters. And some of the folks you mention as Protestants are really Dissenters, Again, a large difference. As I tire of Catholic mistruths and bigotry, so I tire of Catholics who act so embittered toward Protestants in their mistruths and prejudice.

I am an avowed member of a dispersed religious order; the Order of St. Luke. I am bound to a Rule, and I live my life within that rule in obedience to Christ. (the Rule can be found

here.)

I don’t “love” the look and feel of Catholicism - I love the Church and I love Christ. My allegiance is to him. Intellectual dishonesty? You profane the faith by such accusations, and further profane such Church Fathers as Augustine, Hippolytus, Justin Martyr, John Chrystosom, and the like - saints whom I dearly love and owe a debt of gratitude to.

I don’t expect Catholics to apologize for their faith or their convictions. But neither do I expect them to be less than charitable to their “separated brethern.”

O+

 

[Maccabees]

THose catholic saints have one thing in common they loved the catholic church and considerd those outside the church to be outside the church and outside of salavation. Perhaps you should read them a little more closely. Those fathers would have considered you a heretic and Saint Benedict was of course a leader of the Inquistion I don’t think you would have liked him too much either.
You are not catholic but a mere immitation of one.
Your church has not apostolic succession thus you are not catholic nor apostolic no matter what kool-aid you And yes you are a protestant if you have no apostolic succession and not in communion with the bishop of Rome.
Get real bud and stop fooling yourself your not catholic.

 

[Micki]

Maccabees:

THose catholic saints have one thing in common they loved the catholic church and considerd those outside the church to be outside the church and outside of salavation. Perhaps you should read them a little more closely. Those fathers would have considered you a heretic and Saint Benedict was of course a leader of the Inquistion I don’t think you would have liked him too much either.
You are not catholic but a mere immitation of one.
Your church has not apostolic succession thus you are not catholic nor apostolic no matter what kool-aid you And yes you are a protestant if you have no apostolic succession and not in communion with the bishop of Rome.
Get real bud and stop fooling yourself your not catholic.

AMEN!!

Micki

 

[mercygate]

Maccabees:

Wait a minute a recovery of Catholic heritage? Your Protestant your heritage is Luther, Calvin, Cramner not Saint Benedict and Saint Francis. More like a denial of your roots as Protesters. If you really
want to rediscover your catholic heritage become catholic and stop kidding yourself. Gee I should rediscover my Protestant heritage and dress like a Pilgrim oh wait a minute that would be insane Catholic heritage is in complete contradiction with Protestant roots.
Here’s a clue rediscover your catholic heritage by reading the Pope’s encyniclas.
High Church Protestants love the look and feel of catholcism yet are intellecutally dishonest when they refuse to accept full catholic teaching and that what catholcism is full christian teaching. You have been around this board forever Contrani and catholics have given you a fair shake while you have not returned the favor so stop crying wolf that your offended and now won’t consider catholcism. We seek to exchange truth but you just want to pretend to be catholic wihtout accepting catholic teaching.
That is the crux of your problem and not any memeber here.

Hold on a minute, Maccabees.

Benedict and Francis are every bit a part of the Protestant heritage in that they stamped the pre-Reformation Church in ways that all Christians profit from.

A lot of people have come into the Church in baby steps, inch-by-inch, trying on “catholicity” for size in small increments as they up-churched their way through Protestant traditions towards the fullness of truth. A lot of people have been drawn to the Church by Protestant liturgies that are more catholic in form than most worship appears today in the Catholic Church. A lot of people have come to the Church because they have sensed a call to monastic life and have grown to accept the bigger picture.

To decry this as “pretending to be catholic” seriously demeans what is often a deep and difficult struggle.

 

[katherine2]

**2004 Assisi **

The annual meeting of the CIB (International Communion of Benedictine Women) Conference met in Assisi from September 16 - 20, 2004. The meeting was hosted by the Benedictine community of the ancient monastery of S.Giuseppe, founded 1226, the year of St. Francis’ death. Abbess Giacinta Soverino underlined the importance of Assisi as a place of dialogue. Her community, (a microcosm of the CIB) has brought women of very different origins, traditions, countries and cultures together. She understands this as a service of peace in the Church. She offered the CIB a room as secretariat, an offer which was taken up with great joy.

Greetings from the Holy Father to the Communio Internationalis Benedictinarum were read…The Holy Father urged that CIB not only foster community among Catholic Benedictines but that closer relations be established with Orthodox and Protestant monastic communites.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Maccabees:

THose catholic saints have one thing in common they loved the catholic church and considerd those outside the church to be outside the church and outside of salavation. Perhaps you should read them a little more closely. Those fathers would have considered you a heretic and Saint Benedict was of course a leader of the Inquistion I don’t think you would have liked him too much either.
You are not catholic but a mere immitation of one.
Your church has not apostolic succession thus you are not catholic nor apostolic no matter what kool-aid you And yes you are a protestant if you have no apostolic succession and not in communion with the bishop of Rome.
Get real bud and stop fooling yourself your not catholic.

Maccabees:

I’m not sure whose point you’re trying to make. Rest assured that I don’t judge Catholics by your attitude.

I was required to read the Rule of Benedict, as well as all of the Church Fathers, Nicene and Anti-Nicene. They would have considered the government and church officials of Saxony that provoked the Reformation as heretics and apostates.

Your obvious bigotry speaks poorly of yourself. You may be Catholic in name, but I question whether you are Catholic in your heart.

Again, I don’t ask anyone to compromise their faith. But I would think a Catholic would at least respect the wishes of the Holy Father where other faiths are concerned. Or you do just pick and choose which things you want to embrace or believe?

Sounds awfully Protestant to me, Maccabees. You may need to get real, yourself.

Pax vobiscum,

O+

 

[Contarini]

:Wait a minute a recovery of Catholic heritage? Your Protestant your heritage is Luther, Calvin, Cramner not Saint Benedict and Saint Francis.:

It isn’t an either/or. Luther, Calvin, and Cranmer came from the Catholic heritage and saw themselves as reforming its more recent distortions. I don’t defend all their views or their actions. But I don’t need to, any more than I need to defend everything about the medieval Church. Benedict and Francis are as much a part of my tradition as Luther or Cranmer or Wesley (Calvin really doesn’t have much to do with my tradition of Protestantism at all). I don’t expect you to see it that way. But you need to understand that we see it that way, and simply shouting at us is not going to convince us of the contrary.

: More like a denial of your roots as Protesters.:

Do you have any idea how Protestants came to be called Protestants? It has nothing to do with some generalized attitude of “protesting” everything in the previous tradition. The patristic and medieval heritage is very bit as much ours as the Reformation heritage is.

: If you really
want to rediscover your catholic heritage become catholic and stop kidding yourself.:

I have indeed given serious thought to the view that communion with Rome is necessary in order to be Catholic. I’m strongly inclined to believe that it is necessary for full catholicity. But I don’t see full catholicity in your communion either. If we are to recover our catholic heritage fully, that will eventually require reunion with Rome. But it seems to me that Rome will also need to change for that to happen. Not as part of some wishy-washy compromise, but rather as a means of becoming more faithful to the Gospel and to Sacred Tradition.

: Gee I should rediscover my Protestant heritage and dress like a Pilgrim oh wait a minute that would be insane Catholic heritage is in complete contradiction with Protestant roots.:

So you say. I understand why you think that, and I don’t harbor the illusion that yelling at you will convince you otherwise.

:Here’s a clue rediscover your catholic heritage by reading the Pope’s encyniclas.:

That’s very good advice. I would recommend in return that you acquaint yourself with the hymns of Charles Wesley, but I fear that such a counsel would fall on deaf ears.

:High Church Protestants love the look and feel of catholcism yet are intellecutally dishonest when they refuse to accept full catholic teaching and that what catholcism is full christian teaching.:

No, it would be intellectually dishonest to say that the doctrines of the Roman communion are full Christian teaching when we don’t think they are.

:You have been around this board forever Contrani and catholics have given you a fair shake:

I don’t complain of my treatment.

: while you have not returned the favor:

How have I not given Catholics a “fair shake”?

: so stop crying wolf that your offended and now won’t consider catholcism.:

I would never let your rudeness get in the way of my appreciation of Catholicism. Others may not be able to see past your crude behavior.

: We seek to exchange truth:

You’re not uttering any truth–just thoughtless slogans.

: but you just want to pretend to be catholic wihtout accepting catholic teaching.:

You’re begging the question, which is precisely whether being “catholic” is absolutely to be identified with being in communion with Rome. I’m not pretending anything, and saying that I am is simply not helpful unless you can back it up somehow.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[rayne89]

Maccabees:

Wait a minute a recovery of Catholic heritage? Your Protestant your heritage is Luther, Calvin, Cramner not Saint Benedict and Saint Francis. More like a denial of your roots as Protesters. If you really
want to rediscover your catholic heritage become catholic and stop kidding yourself. .

Uhh Mac beating someone over the head doesn’t usually cause them to convert. Technically all Protestant religions did orginally in history break off from the Catholic church since there was only one church until about 1600 years ago.

Let’s look at it this way. An adopted child embraces the heritage of his adpoting parents. Is it then wrong to also appreciate the heritage of his biological parents. He considers the family who raised him his true family but also would like to appreciate where he came from.

I think being rather rude to someone who’s just expresses their feeling on the matter.

 

[katherine2]

rayne89:

Technically all Protestant religions did orginally in history break off from the Catholic church since there was only one church until about 1600 years ago…

Glad to hear things are good with the Orthodox.

 

[PaulDupre]

Personally, I think that Protestants “recovering their Catholic heritage” is a wonderful thing. I agree that many non-Catholics need to approach the Catholic Church slowly, trying on the beliefs and the culture and getting comfortable with it by degrees.

I am confident that we will see mass conversions of Protestants in the coming decades. I can see it coming as more and more Protestants embrace the Church Fathers and learn Church history. They hunger for liturgy and sacraments, and will come to see Catholicism as the historic Christian faith and the repository of true apostolic teachings.

Let’s not be snobs. If someone is moving in the right direction, let’s lead him, not push him away.
Just my 2 cents,
Paul

 

[oat_soda]

i hope that these communities bring protestants back to the fullness of the truth in Rome. but, it might also be an excuse for them not to by saying “we have everything the catholic church has”. either way, they are contradicting themselves by following the rule of st. benedict or st. francis. they are catholic saints who had unwavering obedience to the pope and all teachings of the church.

these communities, apart form taize, are insignificant. some of the nuns are also “priestesses” so i don’t expect them to become catholic. the anglican monasteries are all closing down. all protestants faiths are ultimately a dead end.

 

[mercygate]

oat soda:

i hope that these communities bring protestants back to the fullness of the truth in Rome. but, it might also be an excuse for them not to by saying “we have everything the catholic church has”. either way, they are contradicting themselves by following the rule of st. benedict or st. francis. they are catholic saints who had unwavering obedience to the pope and all teachings of the church.

these communities, apart form taize, are insignificant. some of the nuns are also “priestesses” so i don’t expect them to become catholic. the anglican monasteries are all closing down. all protestants faiths are ultimately a dead end.

If I were a Protestant who felt drawn to monastic life, or to other aspects of Catholic spirituality, this would close me down for a year. Why so bitter?

The Catholic Church can afford to share its spiritual wealth with the world. We don’t “own” it like we own a baseball bat; our treasures are meant to bring people closer to Christ, not drive them away.

 

[oat_soda]

If I were a Protestant who felt drawn to monastic life, or to other aspects of Catholic spirituality, this would close me down for a year. Why so bitter?

i’m not bitter, but i believe that the catholic church is the fullness of truth which is not to say truth doesn’t exist outside of it. clearly, division in the church is a scandal to Jesus. He and the apostles said we are to be one body, one faith.

for a protestant to join a monastery is really rejecting protestantism. they basically acknowledge catholicism without becoming catholic. luther, henry the 8th, calvin, were all opposed to catholicism. it’s stupid.

 

[mercygate]

oat soda:

i’m not bitter, but i believe that the catholic church is the fullness of truth which is not to say truth doesn’t exist outside of it. clearly, division in the church is a scandal to Jesus. He and the apostles said we are to be one body, one faith.

for a protestant to join a monastery is really rejecting protestantism. they basically acknowledge catholicism without becoming catholic. luther, henry the 8th, calvin, were all opposed to catholicism. it’s stupid.

Stupid? Calvin and crew? Or non-Catholics seeking God through the monastic way?

Greymore, Prinknash, and several other formerly Protestant monastic houses have moved into the Church as complete communities. Were they “stupid?” We’re all in different stages of our journey.

Read Newman’s Apologia pro Vita Sua and then come back and say it’s “stupid” to approach Catholic faith from outside the Catholic Church.

 

[oat_soda]

Greymore, Prinknash, and several other formerly Protestant monastic houses have moved into the Church as complete communities. Were they “stupid?” We’re all in different stages of our journey.

i’m agreeing with ya. the whole oxford/ritualist movement only points to Rome. the problem is that there are Anglicans who become complacent and would rather stay anglican then become catholic so as not to lose thier identity. like i said, anglo-catholics/lutheran nuns all contradict themselves. it is stupid when you think about it. not to say that i can’t be stupid.

 

[katherine2]

oat soda:

i’m agreeing with ya. the whole oxford/ritualist movement only points to Rome. the problem is that there are Anglicans who become complacent and would rather stay anglican then become catholic so as not to lose thier identity. like i said, anglo-catholics/lutheran nuns all contradict themselves. it is stupid when you think about it. not to say that i can’t be stupid.

I don’t understand why you think monasticism is incompatable with Protestant Christianity. They certainly don’t think so. Can only Buddhists be monks?