Purgatory is not a second chance. It is a continuation of the sanctification process Jesus has been leading you through over the entire course of your Christian life.So, those who reject Jesus also go to Purgatory because then they can see the beatific vision and be purified of their sins? If I get a second chance to cleanse my sin after death, wouldn’t it be reasonable that everyone gets a second chance?
Why can’t Purgatory exist without the death of Jesus? It’s a place for purification of sins… If that’s what it’s for, then why can’t God put anyone there to be purified?
Nope. Not one.As for the second question, do you know of a means of cleansing souls of sin that does not rely on Jesus’ sacrifice? I certainly don’t.
Because the only Way to the Father is through the Son.So, those who reject Jesus also go to Purgatory because then they can see the beatific vision and be purified of their sins? If I get a second chance to cleanse my sin after death, wouldn’t it be reasonable that everyone gets a second chance?
Why can’t Purgatory exist without the death of Jesus? It’s a place for purification of sins… If that’s what it’s for, then why can’t God put anyone there to be purified?
Well, there we go then. You’ve answered your own question. Purgatory can’t be a place of cleansing from sin that’s independent of Jesus, because there is no such thing.Nope. Not one.
Those who reject God and His mercy do not go to purgatory,they are damned/ What I said was those who bow humbl;y before the Beatific Vision will willingly go to purgatory to be purified,if they haven’t done sufficient expiation for their sins. Having said that it isn"t a matter of waiting until one dies to do penance.We are called to unite ourselves to Christ and His cross through redemptive suffering,acts of charity,prayer,etc.So, those who reject Jesus also go to Purgatory because then they can see the beatific vision and be purified of their sins? If I get a second chance to cleanse my sin after death, wouldn’t it be reasonable that everyone gets a second chance?
Why can’t Purgatory exist without the death of Jesus? It’s a place for purification of sins… If that’s what it’s for, then why can’t God put anyone there to be purified?
Thank you. This is very helpful.Also, your Anglican friend has almost hit upon the very logic that caused the Church to propose the existence of something like Purgatory in the first place, except he has it backwards. It was already established in both Jewish and Christian tradition that prayers for the dead are commendable and efficacious. Just as your friend says, though, it was clear that prayers for a soul in Heaven would be unnecessary and prayers for a soul in Hell would be pointless. Thus, there must be a third option, a place or state in which the dead hope for Heaven but have not fully achieved it yet. The name Purgatory was applied to that state.
As for the concern that Purgatory is a second chance, that is a serious misunderstanding of the belief. The damned don’t go to Purgatory. Only the saved do, and there is no way for a soul in Purgatory to end up anywhere but Heaven. As C.S. Lewis (very much an Anglican himself) described it, Purgatory is like the antechamber of Heaven where you get cleaned and freshened up before heading into the eternal wedding feast.
Usagi
Purgatory does not cleanse a person from mortal sin which is the death of the soul. Purgatory cleanses one from unrepentant venial sins and lingering temporal punishment incurred from repentant mortal or venial sins.So, those who reject Jesus also go to Purgatory because then they can see the beatific vision and be purified of their sins? If I get a second chance to cleanse my sin after death, wouldn’t it be reasonable that everyone gets a second chance?
Why can’t Purgatory exist without the death of Jesus? It’s a place for purification of sins… If that’s what it’s for, then why can’t God put anyone there to be purified?
You’re probably not going to get your Protestant friends to open up to Purgatory. But you can term it in a way that makes sense to them - that if you pray to God now for your friend, God could act in the past - that God could have given them the grace to confess their sins and come to faith at their last moment of life.(1) if we pray for a deceased relative, and they are in Heaven, then what is the point?
That still doesn’t answer why God doesn’t put anyone in purgatory if it’s possible to just be cleansed of sin there.Those who reject God and His mercy do not go to purgatory,they are damned/ What I said was those who bow humbl;y before the Beatific Vision will willingly go to purgatory to be purified,if they haven’t done sufficient expiation for their sins. Having said that it isn"t a matter of waiting until one dies to do penance.We are called to unite ourselves to Christ and His cross through redemptive suffering,acts of charity,prayer,etc.
Why not?Purgatory does not cleanse a person from mortal sin which is the death of the soul.
The fact is that the Creed does not refer to Purgatory or anyplace like it in the term “communion of saints”. It is an evolved teaching of the Church with no scriptural reference. In recent years, ever more priests explain that we really don’t know about Purgatory, in the sense that it may be a state of mind rather than a place.This doesn’t really explain my objection though. God could easily stick anyone into purgatory, believer or not if He wanted to cleanse us of sin… that is to say, if that made sense. Fortunately we have a Savior who has cleansed us of sin.
This is by far the best answer and one I agree with entirely.The fact is that the Creed does not refer to Purgatory or anyplace like it in the term “communion of saints”. It is an evolved teaching of the Church with no scriptural reference. In recent years, ever more priests explain that we really don’t know about Purgatory, in the sense that it may be a state of mind rather than a place.
Purgatory is a concept put forward to deal with the fact that the Catholic Church has a problem with absolute sanctification of the soul at time of death. It teaches that there is a reckoning and that it is logical to assume that some final purge of our residual evil, sinful ways is required. Perhaps, but it is part of Tradition and the sad fact that we seem to need a summary statement on every single part of our faith that is not known.
Limbo theory was headed that way until Pope finally, clearly stated that it was a theory and not real Church teaching. Instead we are now hopeful that babies not baptized will go to heaven…they are the definition of innocents.
Protestants teach justification and sanctification a bit differently, clearly stating that once saved and forgiven, if one tries to live the proper life, they then will go to heaven…period. That’s the basic difference in teachings and why the topic of Purgatory is an unnecessary diversion in the dialog to reunite the faithful Christians of the world
If they are already in heaven, then they have no need of your prayers. If they are already in hell, then your prayers cannot help them. If they are in Purgatory, then our prayers can assist them in the purification that they are undergoing. Here’s how:Can someone help me with these two Protestant friends’ objections to Catholicism:
(1) if we pray for a deceased relative, and they are in Heaven, then what is the point? How can we help someone who has died if they have not been faithful in life to Christ?
This is incorrect. There is no second chance. At death, the person is either destined for heaven or hell with a possible pass through purgatory if it is necessary. More than likely, it it. Please ignore the … in the diagram below…they are necessary for spacing.Purgatory is a second chance that is not allowed. I have responded that the Church teaches that no prayer is ever wasted. I have struggled to explain Purgatory and have appreciated the CAF tracts on this subject.
Thank you Randy. That is very helpful as well.If they are already in heaven, then they have no need of your prayers. If they are already in hell, then your prayers cannot help them. If they are in Purgatory, then our prayers can assist them in the purification that they are undergoing. Here’s how:
Purgatory and the Treasury of Merits Explained
At death, we are judged by God, and there are only two options: heaven or hell. If you are bound for hell, then that’s pretty much the end of the story. If you are going to heaven, then there are two possibilities: either A) you are going straight to heaven because you are completely without stain or blemish at the moment of your death, or B) you need to take a shower and put on some clean clothes before going to the ball.
Purgatory is the place (or state) in which the cleansing of the temporal effects of sin is accomplished by God. We do nothing here. Remember, the ETERNAL effects of sin are ALREADY dealt with by Jesus’ death and resurrection…only the temporal effects still remain to be cleansed in Purgatory.
Here’s an example from scripture that will relieve your fears:
When David sinned with Bathsheba, a child was conceived. The eternal effect of David’s sin was forgiven by God; the prophet Nathan declared that God had forgiven David. However, the temporal effect of David’s sin remained; the child died despite David’s prayer and fasting for the child.
Here’s an example from real life:
A child breaks a neighbor’s window while playing baseball. The neighbor forgives the child (addressing the eternal effect of the transgression), and the relationship with the neighbor is restored by the child’s repentance. However, the child still has to mow grass to earn the money to pay for the window (addressing the temporal effect of the transgression).
One more thing to blow your mind:
The other kids who were playing can also contribute to the kitty to pay for the window. Similarly, the Church can assist those in Purgatory by applying what is known as the “treasury of merits” to that person’s debt. Since we can do nothing satisfying to God apart from Christ, all of the merits of the saints are, in effect, Christ’s own merits, so we’re not “earning our way into heaven”…we’re simply moving a few “dollars” from one account to another through Him who is able to accomplish all.
This is incorrect. There is no second chance. At death, the person is either destined for heaven or hell with a possible pass through purgatory if it is necessary. More than likely, it it. Please ignore the … in the diagram below…they are necessary for spacing.
Heaven
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|…Purgatory (temporary if needed)
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|…/
Death
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Hell