Protestant... Oh How I HATE That Term...

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Hi Singinbeauty,

I just discovered a way to end all the wars between all nations.

We are no longer Australians, Americans, Iraqis, Chinese, Italian, English, French etc…

From now on… we are now Earthlings! 👍

Do you get my point? It’s easier to be labelled with a religion. We can tell alot about you by the religion you wish to follow.

But it seems nowadays that “no-religion” is the new religion. “Relationship” is the buzz-word. It’s a convenient way to distance yourself from the bad history and hardships of a religion. But I’m not convinced that it can unite people.

What we need is a term that is not:​

  • sexist
  • ageist
  • speciesist
  • religionist
  • feminist
  • DWEMist
  • differently-abledist
  • elitist
  • chauvinist
  • I’ll settle for being a carbon unit. Though that is probably elementist. #
 
There’s no such thing as non-denominational.

If your church has a particular set of doctrines, then it is a denomination - that’s what a denomination is - a group of believers with a particular set of doctrines.
/QUOTE]

I understand what you’re saying, but in fact there are a great number of “non-denominational” churches. It simply means they are not affiliated with any previously established, organized denomination. Usually, they are offshoots of some denomination who differed with some aspect of the denomination’s doctrine, but sometimes non-denominational churches are offshoots of other non-denominational churches. In my part of the world, at least, the non-denominational churches tend to be composed of persons having familial relationships or who are particularly attracted to the preaching of a particular preacher, or both. Sometimes they come about as a result of rejecting some development within their original denominational churches, such as acceptance of gay marriage.

I live in a VERY Protestant area, and, while some non-denominational churches are exceedingly bizarre, I have found most to be fairly friendly and tolerant; possibly because they tend to be put down by the denominations from whence they sprung. Usually, they do resemble in most respects, the churches of origin.

I would, however, disagree with Singin and some of the posters who say the word “Protestant” is a term of opprobrium imposed on them by Catholics. Many Protestant churches loudly announce that they are Protestant. Near where I live, there was even a hospital that called itself “________ Protestant Hospital” to distinguish itself from a local Catholic hospital. Since Catholics just basically don’t accept Protestantism as having the fullness of truth, the term does have some negative connotations SOMETIMES when used by Catholics. Sometimes it is only a term of convenience, used when one does not know what else to say.

But, okay, if Singin doesn’t want to be called “Protestant”, that’s fine.

I will say the following, which Singin might resent, but might not. There is something I discovered rather late in life. As I mentioned before, the term “Protestant” does not really define the beliefs of the person to whom it is applied. It is simply an announcement that one is a Christian who does not accept some of the tenets of the Catholic Church. Generally, if I hand a Protestant (for brevity’s sake, let me use the word for this purpose only) a copy of the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” that person will not disagree with most of what is in it. Most Protestant churches (there are exceptions, but not many) do not have a set of doctrines, or at least not a very long one. I have seen one-pagers. Even the Southern Baptist Church, big as it is, has every doctrine it holds on just a few pages. So why do they find so little to argue with in the “Catechism of the Catholic Church”? (I have done that many times) It’s precisely because a good part of what Protestants believe has just been gathered from the messages around them. Since there is really only one predictable, very detailed set of tenets around, most Protestants more or less absorb a lot of Catholicism without knowing it. (Interestingly, even Ed Koch, former mayor of N.Y.C., and a Jew, said that,as have a number of Protestant theologians)

I’m not trying to proselytize you, Singin. If you are a true believer in your church, I am sure Jesus isn’t going to send you to hell for it, as he loves you as much as he loves the Pope. But (and maybe I’m proselytizing just a little) you might experiment with looking at the Catechism. When you do, you will find that you don’t disagree with much of it. If you can’t accpet some of it, that’s up to your conscience and, again, Jesus loves you. But you might want to consider something that’s just a fact; that all Christian churches orbit the Catholic Church like planets around a star; some at greater distance; some at nearer. If you can’t accept that and remain of clear conscience, that’s okay. But it probably will deepen your understanding of Christianity and the history (it’s very well documented) of what most Christians believe, and why they believe those things. I never met a Protestant yet who didn’t, at minimum, appreciate reading what those people who lived very near to the time of Christ, had to say. In fact, study of what we Catholics call the “Fathers of the Church” is very big among non-Catholic Christians now, and for good reason.

Anyway, Singin, God bless you, and say a prayer for old Ridgerunner, hear?
 
Of course not - but it was the Protestants who divorced against God when they broke away from God’s Church, the Catholic Church.

Yes, God loves everyone - God loves Protestants. God hopes that the Protestants will repent and come home to Him. He hopes the same thing for all who have departed from His ways, and also for all who have never known His ways.

Don’t we Catholics have to do the same ? There were faults on both sides when the Reformation took place - not just on the part of Protestants. Quite possibly the majority had no idea they were ceasing to be Catholics: especially in Germany; St. Peter Canisius, himself a German, testifies to the low quality of the German priesthood (see his life by Fr. James Brodrick S.J.) If it had not been for the debased state of so much Catholic life, the Reformation might never have got anywhere; the Protestant movement is very largely of the Church’s own making.​

As there are faults on both sides, why should today be any different, or the time in between ? Why should Protestants, and only they, have to shoulder all the blame for everything ? Or don’t our faults, crimes, atrocities, heresies, exaggerations, slanders, abuses, & infidelities matter ? ISTM intolerably one-sided for us to tell them to “come home” - we could learn from them, & need to; Protestantism has graces & strengths that I wish we had. If the Church were healthier, there might be no Protestantism left. ##
 
There’s no such thing as non-denominational.

If your church has a particular set of doctrines, then it is a denomination - that’s what a denomination is - a group of believers with a particular set of doctrines.
Agreed…which definition also applies to the Catholic Church even though it refuses to claim the title.
 
There’s no such thing as non-denominational.

If your church has a particular set of doctrines, then it is a denomination - that’s what a denomination is - a group of believers with a particular set of doctrines.

Now, if your church has no doctrines, then it must be unitarian universalist and that’s still not non-denominational.

Now, if you wanna say your church is just a generic Christian Church, fine. But the term “non-denominational” is a lie made up by satan to try to redefine words to mean what they don’t mean (like homosexuals did with the word “gay” - it used to mean “happy” before the gay agenda got a hold of it and redefined it to suit their means.)

There. I said it. You had your steam-releasing rant, I had mine 😛
On the side note; Non-Denomination according to Wikipedia is defined as the following.

*The term non-denominational refers to those churches which have not formally aligned themselves with an established denomination. Non-denominational churches establish their own internal means and methods of policy and worship without interference from the policies and worship practices of regional, national, or multinational organizations. Members of non-denominational churches often consider themselves simply “Christians”, and many feel at home when visiting any number of other denominational churches with compatible beliefs.

On the other hand, some non-denominational churches consciously reject the idea of a denominational structure as a matter of doctrine, insisting that each congregation must be autonomous, sometimes pointing out that in early Christianity, there were no denominations.*

In other words, Non-Denoms have no church afliliation and have no set doctrines. Protestants who defined themselves as non-denominations as can visit any Protestant Church, like the Penecostal, SDA, Baptism, and other Protestant Churches. Their have no united doctrines or dogmas.

I compared non-denominational Christians to those bar hoppers who go to one bar to the next to get more beer, or liquor. Except in this case, it is the belief of individual to find a Church that is suitable to him.
 
But WHY distinquish?
Simply to avoid confusion. Imagine if we use the generic term, “Christian”, for anyone who believes in Christ. So the enxt logical question is, which church or denomination are you referring to? Then we will have to go through the process of identifying who is a member of what. Tedious process.
 
❤️ I love all of my brothers and sisters in Christ. I don’t care if you are Catholic, Protestant, Ortodox. I believe that all of you have been given the truth of the Christian faith. Yes, I do believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of the faith, but I also believe that other Christians can and will be saved. This is possible through the Catholic faith. I love and respect my brothers and sisters in Christ who happen to be Protestant or Orthodox Christians. God created all and loves all. He wants to save all. If a person happens to be Protestant or Orthodox, I believe that I will meet that person in heaven some day, if he/she lives out his/her faith as best as he/she knows it.
 
You can protest, even if you protest privately.

It seems you seek relativism and this is why I say that. You say there is nothing wrong with the Catholic Church, but you will not join it. So either you do not believe anyone has the truth and so it does not matter what denomination you are, or you believe everyone is perfect, and so it does not matter what religion you are. Either way it denies differences which plainly exist.

I urge you to pursue Truth, for Jesus said his purpose was to testify to the Truth. I passionately urge you to not repeat Pilate “what is truth?”

I believe that relativism is wrong, it is a religion based upon Pilate’s statement rather than Jesus’ statement. It seems that relativism IS the unity you seek, when in reality, relativism is no unity at all and is more dangerous to truth than denominations are.

A lone Raven

Think about the amazingness of this, the two statements have echoed down throughout history, one For this I was born and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth, and the other What is truth.

We are repeating an ancient trial, and in almost the exact same words. I have much more respect for someone who is testifying to the truth, even if they have that truth slightly wrong than for someone who simply asks what is truth
Thank you for this post. I think there is alot of wisdom here. That is one of my favorite verses and this relativism found in most non-denominational churches is exactly why I left. I am a firm believer in absolute truth and the only place I found it was in the Catholic Church. What an excellent observation you have made. 🙂
 
A friend of mine got really offended when in conversation I used to protestant when talking about non-catholic christians. I sent her a websters dictionary definition of protestant thru email because I didn’t want her to think I was trying to be offensive or use at a put down. I now use the term non-Catholic Christian around her because I love her to death and I know the term bothers her.

That being said I hate it when I hear things like “Well I was raised Catholic but now I’m Christian.” So what are Catholics tree worshipping pagans:rolleyes: .
 
As there are faults on both sides, why should today be any different, or the time in between ? Why should Protestants, and only they, have to shoulder all the blame for everything ? Or don’t our faults, crimes, atrocities, heresies, exaggerations, slanders, abuses, & infidelities matter ? ISTM intolerably one-sided for us to tell them to “come home” - we could learn from them, & need to; Protestantism has graces & strengths that I wish we had. If the Church were healthier, there might be no Protestantism left. ##
Gottle:

The Protestants chose to abandon truth. Whatever faults the Catholic Church had or has, it still contains the full deposit of faith. There is truth and there is and then there is everything else, to choose to remain outside of truth carries eternal repercussions. It is our duty to call all outside the Church to come home, to come to truth. Protestantism has no grace or strength not already contained within the Church, let them come home and dwell in the fullness of grace.

Marsha
 
I understand what you’re saying, but in fact there are a great number of “non-denominational” churches.
I know they call themselves that. They can call their Church “Burger King” for all I care, it won’t make their church a Burger King 🙂

I don’t believe in the term “non-denominational” - there same deceiving that the gay movement did to redefine the word “gay” over the past thirty years, is the same deceiving that made up that term “non-denominational” I just prefer to speak English, not relativist-ese.
 
Perhaps “non-denominational” means that each grouping or building is free standing, with no obligation or ties to another group or building. All rules are made in the building, for that building, as needed. So it may have a doctrinal statement that is the same and rules that are the same as the building down the street, but they will remain completely independent of eachother at all times, with no overlap at all?

Whereas the Catholic Church has a bishop over the group of parishes, so although they are separate, they are united.

Is this what is meant?
 
Perhaps “non-denominational” means that each grouping or building is free standing, with no obligation or ties to another group or building. All rules are made in the building, for that building, as needed. So it may have a doctrinal statement that is the same and rules that are the same as the building down the street, but they will remain completely independent of eachother at all times, with no overlap at all?

Whereas the Catholic Church has a bishop over the group of parishes, so although they are separate, they are united.

Is this what is meant?
They sound like Bible-thumpin’ fundamentalist Congregationalists, to me. 😉
 
They sound like Bible-thumpin’ fundamentalist Congregationalists, to me. 😉
Why, yes! They do. But that is my fault, since I do know what a Congregationalist is, so naturally I think in terms I know.🙂
 
But WHY distinquish? That is my question.
People like labels.

We can see race, gender, size, height, etc. Knowing religious affiliation helps me file you in mind’s rolodex.

But really, isn’t non-denom a denom? Doesn’t “denom” imply “I wish not to be associated with these previously established denoms?”
 
I know they call themselves that. They can call their Church “Burger King” for all I care, it won’t make their church a Burger King 🙂

I don’t believe in the term “non-denominational” - there same deceiving that the gay movement did to redefine the word “gay” over the past thirty years, is the same deceiving that made up that term “non-denominational” I just prefer to speak English, not relativist-ese.
Bob, I think you’re a fine man, but I just think you’re wrong about this. I don’t know where you live, and it could be different there, but I live in the Bible Belt, and most of these non-denominational churches are pretty fundamentalist, and a lot of them got started PRECISELY BECAUSE they had had it with relativism in their former churches. When you’re a Protestant, and you know nothing about Catholicism except the negative things your church has told you, and you are sick of “social protestantism”, where do you go? Since it’s not considered “wrong” in protestantism to do so, you start another church. If you don’t want to affiliate with the Baptists or the Methodists or the Assemblies of God or Nazarenes or whatever, you start one that’s “non-denominational”.
I’m not saying that starting new churches is a good thing per se. There can be a lot of bad to it; particularly the “cults of personality” that sometimes create them. But I think a person needs to be careful about characterizing them too broadly.

Our rather smallish parish (about 300 families right now) grows by about 10-20 converts per year, mostly from fairly fundamentalist groups of one kind or another, and many from non-denominational churches. I tell you, a lot of this is caused by good intentions but a lack of knowledge. I believe that in the next 20 years, when the tide of “Cafeteria Catholicism” has receded (it already is doing so) we’re going to see a lot of fundamentalists come into the Catholic Church. I really believe that. I grew up with them and many, many, many of them are quite fervent. They just have not been exposed to the fullness of truth.
 
Bob:

Lest you misunderstand, I am as ultramontane as they come.
 
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singinbeauty:
I am Non-Denominational (and we have had so many convo’s about that term… this is not the place for it!)
Please re-read my statement that I had in the first post. This thread is not to debate what non-denominational means. If you wish to discuss this please open up a new thread.

Thank you! 😃
 
No problem, find yourself a solid Seventh Day Adventist and they will gladly call you the anti-christ and the whore of babylon. If they are having a good day they might rein themselves in and just call you a papist.
Marsha

My first introduction to SDA was in our home town when the SDA temple was in a desperate need of a paint up and maintenance and they heard that a group of local Catholics did such work on a volunteer basis and they asked for our help and we gladly obliged.

There was not talk of Papist or Whore of Babylon then. I was astonished years later to discover what their greater family were really saying about us.

Every year on Good Friday the Catholics lead an ecumenical procession carrying a cross through the town, where we start at the main Church of England parish church, process through the main High St and end up at either the Methodist, Baptist, Cof E or Catholic Church. I often wondered why the SDA categorically refused to support this initiative of witness.

Stikes me as a bit double standard they were happy to ‘go to the catholics when they needed help which they themselves were unable to provide’, thus calling a truce, when it suited them, then returning to the declaration of war, when the errand of mercy was over :rolleyes:
 
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