S
- Status
S
sandmountainsli
Guest
Is this the thanks we get for bringing Reform to a big chunk of your church??
Geez. See it we try to help you again.
WP
P
PaulDupre
Guest
You mean like the help that outlawed Catholicism in Britain, stole the Church’s lands and property, raped nuns and executed thousands of Catholic clergy and forced the rest to convert to Anglican Protestantism?Is this the thanks we get for bringing Reform to a big chunk of your church??
Geez. See it we try to help you again.
WP
That kind of help we don’t need, thank you very much.
Paul
A
Ahimsa
Guest
No good deed goes unpunished.Is this the thanks we get for bringing Reform to a big chunk of your church??
Geez. See it we try to help you again.
WP
S
sandmountainsli
Guest
You’re Welcome.
WP
E
exoflare
Guest
Huh?Is this the thanks we get for bringing Reform to a big chunk of your church??
Geez. See it we try to help you again.
WP
S
sandmountainsli
Guest
Or this sort of help?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew%27s_Day_Massacre
My grandmother’s family were of Huguenot stock.
Dashiell of Maryland formerly DeChiel of Lyon until this little episode when they fled for their lives
These things you mention were not a one sided affair.
WP
A
Atreyu
Guest
Sandy, the Church was in need of reform at this stage, that is sure. The mistake of those dubbed the Reformers is that they left the Church to do it. And what are the fruits? Old heresies such as Iconoclasm and any number of Christological heresies once again rose to the fore. Then there’s the denominational splitting and so on.Is this the thanks we get for bringing Reform to a big chunk of your church??
Geez. See it we try to help you again.
WP
Now what the Reformers should have done is to stay in the Church and reform it from the inside. Catherine of Siena is an example of someone who did as such.
E
exoflare
Guest
Exactly. I just didn’t know whether the one you quoted was serious or joking.
W
whosebob
Guest
JMJ + OBT
Perhaps “protestant” is an appropriate label for you and like-minded believers, possibly including the members of your local church, or perhaps not; it all depends on what you believe …
Do you believe in the principle of sola scriptura? That is, do you believe that the Bible is the only source of and authority concerning the truths revealed by God?
Do you believe in the principle of sola fide? That is, do you believe that a Christian is saved by faith alone?
Do you believe that Jesus instituted a visible, hierarchical church composed of lay persons, deacons, priests, and bishops, the latter office being perpetuated by the laying on of hands (according to God’s design) down through the centuries from the Apostles to the present day?
Do you believe that during organized Christian worship when a member of the ministerial priesthood consecrates the bread and wine according to the Lord Jesus’ instructions given at the Last Supper, that they become in reality the living Jesus Christ, entirely present in His glorified humanity (i.e. his body and soul) and His divinity, retaining only the appearances of bread and wine? And that this changed reality persists until those appearances are broken down by digestion or decay? And that true worship may be given to the consecrated bread and wine as to Jesus Himself?
Up until the Protestant Reformation/Revolution, the vast majority of Christians of West and East would have answered those questions with the same “yes’s” and “no’s.” After the appearance of Luther, Calvin, etc. and the growth of their communities of like-minded believers, there are large numbers of individuals and groups who now answer those questions differently than do members of the Catholic or Orthodox Church.
Those individuals and communities who trace their beliefs (their answers to those questions) “straight back,” more or less, to the original Protestants are rightly called Protestants today. Those individuals and groups whose beliefs are materially the same, even if they aren’t formally the same, are also rightly identified as Protestants.
Does that make sense?
In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.
IC XC NIKA
A
Atreyu
Guest
I will distinguish because I refuse to accept error. As a member of the Catholic faithful, I believe that the Truth subsists in the Catholic Church. Therefore those that are outside of the Church can only be true inasmuch as they agree with the Church (for all things that have validly defined). And so I distinguish Protestant Christians from those in true particular Churches, because I believe that all Protestant Churches teach error.
“Whoever is not against you is for you”. The word “Christian” is a very convenient word to refer to all of those who follow Christ; be they Catholics, Protestants or Orthodox (and some others). JW’s and Mormons are a bit tricky because we need to define exactly what we mean by “Christian”. Some people have stated that they are not Christian because they do not believe in the Trinity. I’m happy for them to use this definition, but I would use a different one. I would define a “Christian” as those who “strive to follow the teachings of Christ”. A consequence of this definition is that Muslims become Christian!
The thing is, they really are in a sense. Islam was born of Christianity, through combinations of various heresies and other ideas.
E
exoflare
Guest
Muslims are not “Christian” in any sense of the word. They may pay lip-service to “Jesus” sometimes, but that doesn’t mean much. They only follow a strawman version of Jesus that was fabricated by Mohammed, and differs from the historical Jesus.
In that manner of thinking, I could call myself a Buddhist, but with the disclaimer that “my version” of Buddha taught to follow all the teachings of the Catholic Church. It’s just nonsense.
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
All right… I know what kind of can I am opening with this but I am gonna do it anyways…
I HATE the term Protestant. There I said it. I am Non-Denominational (and we have had so many convo’s about that term… this is not the place for it!) but because I am not catholic I am considered protestant. Gee, that’s fair.
Anything and everything that is NOT catholic is considered protestant… right?
Wrong
Wrong
Partly right (sort of), but not a complete definition
Why be ashamed of the name ? Names are no more shameful than one allows them to be - “Quaker” & “Methodist” both began as insults. If I were a Protestant, I would consider it a very honourable name. But “Christian” is even better - it is a great thing to be called one, & an even greater thing to be one in truth & not in name alone
S
scylla
Guest
So if you are an evangelical Christian who doesn’t want to be called Protestant, why don’t you become Catholic.
Become unified under one Church and you wont be Protestant, I invite you. Feel free to come on in, it is very nice inside. It is just prejudice or misunderstanding that possibly is keeping you out, so as a brother in Christ I invite you to join us.
We only worship Jesus, our Church was founded by Jesus and we are 100% Biblical, so there should be nothing keeping you out unless someone has lied to you and told you otherwise.
So follow Jesus and come on in.
God Bless
Scylla
Become unified under one Church and you wont be Protestant, I invite you. Feel free to come on in, it is very nice inside. It is just prejudice or misunderstanding that possibly is keeping you out, so as a brother in Christ I invite you to join us.
We only worship Jesus, our Church was founded by Jesus and we are 100% Biblical, so there should be nothing keeping you out unless someone has lied to you and told you otherwise.
So follow Jesus and come on in.
God Bless
Scylla
G
Gottle_of_Geer
Guest
Jesus Christ was in some ways the first Protestant - though perhaps Amos is the very first.
The Protestant “impulse” is far older than 1517 (or some such date) - it is the visible movement that “got going” in the 1500s. So when various Protestants claim to be apostolic in origin in some sense, they are not completely wrong. ##
T
THutch04
Guest
I always described myself as a classic WASP, so obviously the term never bothered me too much. However, when people started saying “Protestants believe xyz” and my Anglican background taught differently, I would always say something like, “No, they don’t…” I referred to myself as an Anglican from that point on. Generally I refer to people by their denomination unless they specify that they prefer to be referred to something else.
P
Pug
Guest
Perhaps people are just following the dictionary or common usage in their area:
Perhaps you are seeing a combination of things. First, much of it is a conversational convenience. Second, some folks don’t seem to have the Orthodox, for example, on their radar. Third, some people call themselves Protestants quite clearly, so a person could think the term is a self-chosen designation and are trying to be nice by using it. Fourth, others call as Protestant anyone who can conceiveably be globbed with the 23,000 or 30,000 denomination rhetoric. You can see the word used variously.
I don’t call JW to be Christian. I’ve seen JW literature that says that they don’t call themselves Christian either. Thus I would not say a JW is a Protestant. I do NOT consider anything that is non-Catholic to be Protestant, not by any means. The JW or the Greek Orthodox are two examples.
Please be patient.
S
Singinbeauty
Guest
I think I still prefer just plain ol’ Christian…
S
Singinbeauty
Guest
I would rather that we didn’t have terms like catholic or protestant. I am not trying to ‘hyjack’ anything and I kinda resent the fact that you think that is what I am trying to do. Not all ‘protestants’ are christian just as much as not all ‘catholics’ are either.
C
Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Hi Singinbeauty,Ahem… Get ready for it… It’s hard to swallow for SOME (maybe not you, you seem nice
Christian
I just discovered a way to end all the wars between all nations.
We are no longer Australians, Americans, Iraqis, Chinese, Italian, English, French etc…
From now on… we are now Earthlings!
Do you get my point? It’s easier to be labelled with a religion. We can tell alot about you by the religion you wish to follow.
But it seems nowadays that “no-religion” is the new religion. “Relationship” is the buzz-word. It’s a convenient way to distance yourself from the bad history and hardships of a religion. But I’m not convinced that it can unite people.
- Status