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Singinbeauty
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Here.
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Singinbeauty
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The only point I can see in that quote is that they wanted to push a button or two.
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bella5110
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I LOVE THIS FORUM!!!So if you are an evangelical Christian who doesn’t want to be called Protestant, why don’t you become Catholic.
Become unified under one Church and you wont be Protestant, I invite you. Feel free to come on in, it is very nice inside. It is just prejudice or misunderstanding that possibly is keeping you out, so as a brother in Christ I invite you to join us.
We only worship Jesus, our Church was founded by Jesus and we are 100% Biblical, so there should be nothing keeping you out unless someone has lied to you and told you otherwise.
So follow Jesus and come on in.
God Bless
Scylla
:getholy:
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Verita
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corvidae
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I think the thing is our divisions do not come from our labels, but rather, our labels come from our divisions.
Catholics and Protestants are different. Not different in how much God loves them, but different in who they believe God to be, what they believe God meant to show, and how to worship God. These differences seperate the different Christians out.
An example would be this. Do you believe in predestination, that whatever you do is because God preordained for you to do it. Or do you believe in free will. Now it doesn’t matter which you believe, because the other stance exists, and the two stances make for very different ideas and way of looking at things. You cannot simply say, oh they are the same. It does not work.
God’s love for us has no bearing on what religion we belong to. It is not that God loves Catholics more than protestants, or anything like that. Rather, many Catholics feel and should feel that they will be judged more harshly because they have been given more of the Truth.
I think the basis is truth, we must seek the truth, and we must attempt to find the truth. However, in order to do that, there must be conversation, and in order for there to be conversation, we must acknowledge differences.
I understand that you do not like the term protestant, but that is simply a way for people talking to you to get an idea of where you are coming from. In fact, many will continue on asking what denomination you are and what especially you believe. IMHO they are not trying to put you down or label you, but rather, to get an idea of the differences between your ideas and theirs so that you both can begin talking.
The last words of the book “The Nichomachian Ethics” written by Aristotle is “now let us begin to talk”. This is a several hundred page work when translated into English. You must be on the same page before you can dialog.
Please do not be offended, I will call you Christian if you prefer, I will also ask further what you believe so that I can talk to you.
A lone Raven
Catholics and Protestants are different. Not different in how much God loves them, but different in who they believe God to be, what they believe God meant to show, and how to worship God. These differences seperate the different Christians out.
An example would be this. Do you believe in predestination, that whatever you do is because God preordained for you to do it. Or do you believe in free will. Now it doesn’t matter which you believe, because the other stance exists, and the two stances make for very different ideas and way of looking at things. You cannot simply say, oh they are the same. It does not work.
God’s love for us has no bearing on what religion we belong to. It is not that God loves Catholics more than protestants, or anything like that. Rather, many Catholics feel and should feel that they will be judged more harshly because they have been given more of the Truth.
I think the basis is truth, we must seek the truth, and we must attempt to find the truth. However, in order to do that, there must be conversation, and in order for there to be conversation, we must acknowledge differences.
I understand that you do not like the term protestant, but that is simply a way for people talking to you to get an idea of where you are coming from. In fact, many will continue on asking what denomination you are and what especially you believe. IMHO they are not trying to put you down or label you, but rather, to get an idea of the differences between your ideas and theirs so that you both can begin talking.
The last words of the book “The Nichomachian Ethics” written by Aristotle is “now let us begin to talk”. This is a several hundred page work when translated into English. You must be on the same page before you can dialog.
Please do not be offended, I will call you Christian if you prefer, I will also ask further what you believe so that I can talk to you.
A lone Raven
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Verita
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No offense, but if that’s all that you can see in my post then I think you are being rather narrow minded. When I wrote my intention (which you were so quick to judge negatively) was to point out that God loves everyone, even non-Christians, the same way and therefore it has nothing to do with your topic.
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Fidelis
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The fact remains that Catholic and Protestants are NOT the same, in that there are some very important differences in what they believe. If that was not the case, then you would be a Catholic, would you not? Would you like people to call you or even presume you were a practicing Catholic if that were not the case? Of course not. It is, in the end, finding CLARITY by acknowledging REALITY.
A Catholic who is following the teaching of the Church would not deny that you are a Christian, and acknowledging the fact that you ascribe to Protestant beliefs does not do so either.
It is not “holier than thou” to point out reality. Walls are not taken down by pretending they are not there.
If you really want to work for true Christian unity, start by taking down the walls that you, personally can. Pretending does not help.
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jmcrae
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Of course not - but it was the Protestants who divorced against God when they broke away from God’s Church, the Catholic Church.
Yes, God loves everyone - God loves Protestants. God hopes that the Protestants will repent and come home to Him. He hopes the same thing for all who have departed from His ways, and also for all who have never known His ways.
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mercygate
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Singin’, we keep telling you – the door is wide open. C’mon in!
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JimO
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We are all equal in the sight of God. We are all His children. We are all sinners. And we are all saved through Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. But, there are incredibly significant differences. Just take the Eucharist, for example. If you understand the place the Eucharist has in the Catholic Church, and the position of most other Christians on the interpretation of relevent Scriptures (John 6, the Last Supper accounts in Matt., Mark, and Luke, I Cor. 10 and 11) you would see that this issue (along with others) divides us deeply.
It would be wonderful for there to be unity, but the differences are there and they are significant.
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exoflare
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I said:
Catholics and Protestants are NOT the same.
How do you go from that to this…?
Yes they are “equal” to Catholics, but what does that have to do with me saying they are not the same? I’m thoroughly confused…
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HailMary
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That would be false unity. How can we be unified if one does not believe in infant baptism and the other does? How can be we unified if you allow female bishops and others dont? How can we be unified if pre-maritial acts are considered “OK” if you keep your physical virginity?
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whosebob
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JMJ + OBT
Dear Singinbeauty, is there any chance we will get to see your yes’s and no’s in answer to those questions I posted earlier in this thread? Here, I’ll post them again:
Do you believe in the principle of sola scriptura? That is, do you believe that the Bible is the only source of and authority concerning the truths revealed by God?
Do you believe in the principle of sola fide? That is, do you believe that a Christian is saved by faith alone?
Do you believe that Jesus instituted a visible, hierarchical church composed of lay persons, deacons, priests, and bishops, the latter office being perpetuated by the laying on of hands (according to God’s design) down through the centuries from the Apostles to the present day?
Do you believe that during organized Christian worship when a member of the ministerial priesthood consecrates the bread and wine according to the Lord Jesus’ instructions given at the Last Supper, that they become in reality the living Jesus Christ, entirely present in His glorified humanity (i.e. his body and soul) and His divinity, retaining only the appearances of bread and wine? And that this changed reality persists until those appearances are broken down by digestion or decay? And that true worship may be given to the consecrated bread and wine as to Jesus Himself?
We can then compare your answers with the common Catholic answers and see if they match up. That will give us at least a small base to work from in order to determine if we’re justified in insisting that Catholic and Protestants Christians are not the same in their basic beliefs.
Thank you for interacting with us here at CAF. I, for one, am glad to have you with us. May Our Lord bless you and keep you.
In the Hearts of Jesus and Mary.
IC XC NIKA
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wcknight
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I don’t doubt God loves Protestants, BUT I’m sure He loves Catholics much better otherwise I would have converted to Protestantism long ago
Tearing down all the walls and unifying all the denominations would be terriffic, as soon as all of you guys start accepting ALL our beliefs, we will be unified… sorry I couldn’t resist that one.
Sorry us Catholics have always been an arrogant bunch ever since the good sisters in grade school taught us that all our protestant friends were toast. Thankfully Vatican II stopped that less than charitable practice. Now they only teach us that you guys are second class citizens instead.
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JimO
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I’m sorry that you have been offended in this way by Catholics. However, I think that you would find that the Catholic Church’s view of others is very different than many other Christians’ view. For example, many other Christians believe that unless one has explicitly accepted Jesus as their personal savior, they go to hell. This includes all the Muslims, Buddists, Hindus, Atheists, etc., both those living and those who have died. It even includes the native peoples of the world before and after Christ who were not part of plan of salvation for Israel. Even modern Jews would be in this group.
I might also add that many Christians believe that Catholics aren’t saved because they contend that we believe a false gospel, regardless of whether or not we have personally accepted Christ (go figure), even though those same folks contend that salvation isn’t conditional - but that is for another thread.
The Catholic Church, on the other hand, teaches a concept call invincible ignorance in which (forgive my crude theological paraphrasing) a person truly ignorant of Christ and of the Truth still has the possibility of heaven, but that salvation still comes through Christ’s sacrifice (even though they don’t realize it). Those folks are judged differently than those of us who have knowledge of Christ. That is hardly a “holier than thou” world view.
But, the Church simply cannot embrace beliefs (and those who hold them) into the Church that are inconsistent with Church teaching. This is for the protection of the flock, so that they will not be misled. With respect to other Christians, sadly, the differences are fundamental and significant enough to warrant separation.
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Singinbeauty
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No, I believe that the Truths revealed by God is revealed by the Holy Spirit through scripture. If you don’t have the Holy Spirit with you then the bible might as well be just another book.
No, True Faith through Grace is what saves us. Works won’t get you there but they are the evidence of your Faith.
I believe that Jesus intended to begin Christianity which started out well with the RCC. BUT things went astray when MEN were given too much authority and a change had to be made.
No, I do not believe that bread and wine becomes Jesus’ flesh. This is one that I have had much dificulty with and only recently knew that you really thought it was Jesus you were ingesting. Sorry if that sounds blunt or crude but I don’t believe that Jesus intended this. Now, I could be wrong. I admit I don’t have all the answers. But this is hard to swallow… (Oh geez… no pun intended!
)But to unite does not mean we have to believe the same certain traditions (capital ‘T’ or not). Only to believe that Christ died for US. In place of US. And that He is the Savior of our souls. God has put me on the path of Christianity. To follow CHRIST. A man made religion is not going to be what brings me to Him. HE will bring me to His arms.
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Singinbeauty
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Good to see where you stand… At least you are honest.I don’t doubt God loves Protestants, BUT I’m sure He loves Catholics much better otherwise I would have converted to Protestantism long ago
Tearing down all the walls and unifying all the denominations would be terriffic, as soon as all of you guys start accepting ALL our beliefs, we will be unified… sorry I couldn’t resist that one.
Sorry us Catholics have always been an arrogant bunch ever since the good sisters in grade school taught us that all our protestant friends were toast. Thankfully Vatican II stopped that less than charitable practice. Now they only teach us that you guys are second class citizens instead.
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Singinbeauty
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Maybe there is some confusion in what I mean by ‘unity’. I am not asking you to accept the practices and bring them into your church. What I AM asking is that the catholic church not view protestants as second class citizens as posted earlier. It’s as if you have a brother or sister in your own family that claims to be homosexual. You probably wouldn’t like it and wouldn’t want them to bring that lifestyle into your home but out in the world if someone started BASHING that same brother or sister you would stand next to them and defend them to the end. At least I would.
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Writer
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As a former Free Methodist (before became Catholic), I’ll second that. I also think the larger issue of this thread is an interesting one. I agree that labels such as “Protestant”, don’t necessarily encourage dialogue. On the other hand, though, how else do you correctly identify subtle (or not so subtle) differences of faith in general and simple way? I think it’s a term we’re stuck with, but I will tell you this… My conversion story will be appearing in a Catholic magazine in January, and I took real pains to only use that word a few times in the whole piece. Whenever possible, I substituted other words. It’s food for thought…Speaking as a Methodist-Protestant
I don’t consider JW or Mormons to be Christian.
Others may disagree with me.
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wcknight
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Actually I was just joking…
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