Protestant pastor marrying a Catholic girl

[Bob_Crowley]

I’m also curious as to what you’ve got against the Catholic Church. But as you say that’s another thread.

Having now read through most of the posts, I am now aware of the incident regarding the beggar in the Vatican’s grounds. However, I’m sure if she wanted to go to one of the Catholic agencies in the city offering help, she’d have gotten something.

I do a bit of work with St. Vincent de Paul. I can assure you that there are a lot of clients who need help. But I can also assure you there are a lot of people who are just too lazy to do anything to help themselves, and expect others to do it for them. They’ll spend a couple of thousand dollars a year on cigarettes, and then expect us to cough up the $50 to $70 to get them through to the next pension day.

As someone else said, I don’t know the full story and you don’t either.

 

[leonie]

Our associate pastor told this story: When he was in seminary in Rome, an older seminary student was walking around Rome. They were told not to give money to beggars, but to offer to take them for a meal. This is because money that is given to beggars is often used either for drugs or alcohol by the beggar.

It happened to be Good Friday and this seminarian encountered a beggar and offered to buy him lunch. They went to a cafe and the beggar told the seminarian that he was a priest who had fallen into despair and alcoholism. The seminarian persuaded the beggar to go to confession with him to St. Peter’s. As it was good Friday, there were long lines at all the confessionals. The beggar chose one at random. When he was giving his confession behind the screen, he confessed that he was a priest. The confessor then came out behind the screen and kissed the beggar’s hand. He absolved him and then led him to his own apartments–at the Vatican. The confessor was Pope John Paul II who was hearing confessions for Good Friday. The beggar was cared for in the Papal apartments.

I don’t know what happened after that.

The point of the story that I think is pertinent here is that help was offered by the seminarian, not money. Help was offered by the Pope. The beggar accepted it. The woman on the square may have refused direct help, like a trip to the clinic. The Church doesn’t usually just give money to beggars. It tries to provide services, but it doesn’t force it on people.

I would be very upset to learn that the artwork created for God to inspire people to a greater devotion to God was sold. Just as the woman who washed Jesus feet was upbraided for not donating her precious oil to the poor, the Church is often upbraided for offering Glory to God in its artwork. But, it belongs to God.

Having said that, the sinners in the Church (oh yeah, all of us) can cause scandel, make bad decisions, fail in our human weaknesses to our poorer sisters and brothers. But, that doesn’t make the Church less Holy. The Church is Holy because it belongs to God. Our weaknesses do not affect the holiness of the Church.

I believe to be a whole Christian, you must belong to the wholeness of Christ’s Church. Whether or not you marry your girlfriend, you belong in the Church. God bless.

 

[PPeterson]

Another thing, those paintings in the Vatican? They don’t belong to Catholics. They belong to Christ. They were made for and given to Him. They’re not ours to sell. They are there to give glory to God.

Commissioned paintings are hardly the only thing in the Vatican. There are also artifacts and works from Ancient Egypt, Greece, Etruscan times, the Far East, etc. The church could in fact sell plenty of its excess at quite a sum, give more to the poor, and still hang onto those works specifically created for the glory of God. That point I’ll give to the OP.

On the other hand, I still think the Catholic Church does quite a bit more for the world’s poor than the Methodist Church. Moreover, it has a much stronger tradition of voluntary poverty. Don’t get me wrong, I like the Methodist Church, I just think where charity and poverty are concerned, it’d be a little out of its league trying to compare itself to the church of St. Francis and the Desert Fathers.

 

[graceandglory]

Keep in mind, I’m much too young to marry at this point. However, my long-term relationship has caused me to wonder about this particular question.

I’m being called to the church. God has given me the gift of building, so after college I’m going to serve on the mission field. He also gave me a passion for Him that is leading me to vocational ministry.

My girlfriend is a devout Catholic. She always goes to mass, confession, trips, and most other things her church does. She’s studying to be a biomedical engineer.

Here’s the thing: I’ve been learning about Catholicism, trying to understand it to better understand my girlfriend. As a result, I now know a lot more than most Protestants I know (to the point where people now assume I’m Catholic). But for reasons that belong in another thread, I won’t become Catholic. My trip to Italy solidified that.

So, the question. If I pursue God’s call into vocational ministry in the Methodist church, ultimately seeking ordination, would that absolutely mean that my relationship with my catholic girlfriend would have to end? Or is there a chance for a happily-ever-after ending? I haven’t seen any threads exactly like this, so please forgive me if there are. Also forgive me if this is in the wrong place. It would be just as big of a thing for my girlfriend and her family, not to mention the new family that would start if marriage happened.

What happened in Italy? DId you meet some unfaithful Catholics?
DOn’t forsake (the barque of) St. Peter because of a Judas.
I too left the CHurch because of lots of Judases. IT took 20 years for me to find they were in the protestant churches too.

 

[jmcrae]

Commissioned paintings are hardly the only thing in the Vatican. There are also artifacts and works from Ancient Egypt, Greece, Etruscan times, the Far East, etc. The church could in fact sell plenty of its excess at quite a sum, give more to the poor, and still hang onto those works specifically created for the glory of God. That point I’ll give to the OP.

It would still be a very finite sum of money, that would be gone within a day - together with the treasures, which would end up hidden away in rich men’s vaults. One thing I do like about the art of the Church is that it is open to everyone to enjoy, instead of just a privileged one or two people.

 

[PattiDay]

You realize that you left us all up in the air when you said that your trip to Italy made the difference between your being willing to become Catholic and not. Wow, I wonder what it could have been! Have you discussed that with your girlfriend?

I am married to a Catholic and find that we have enough differences in opinions without being of different religions. We both fell in love at first sight, although we didn’t know that until later. I am grateful that we share our Christian and Catholic beliefs. I can’t imagine what it would have been like if we had differences about the way our children would be raised. I’m not saying it can’t be done, because I have heard (not personally known) of a few couples who have been married for a long time and are able to do it, but you both must consider seriously before you allow your relationship to go farther. The forums here abound with discussion of people who once were madly in love with one another, who are seriously struggling to keep their marriage together after having children. I am assuming that the two of you are open to the life that God may send in your marriage. If you marry your girlfriend I am assuming that she will feel compelled (as we Catholics are) to raise your children in the Catholic faith. Are you ready to agree to that and not change your mind later? Are you willing to do so and not resent her? What about your personal belief? Can you allow your children, as a true believer in Christ, to be raised in a faith other than your own?

It takes two amazing people. Maybe you are the two, but give it your utmost attention now before you marry. God bless.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Um - I hate to bring this up but do we not realize that outside the walls of the Vatican is actually a different country known as Italy - you could sell all of the artwork you want in the Vatican and still have starving people in Italy - it is like not finishing your supper and your mother telling you about starving kids in China. The Vatican is only a 1 mile squared country. The reason it is it’s own country is for head of state status which allows the Church to argue on matters of life, peace, health, etc at places like the UN and in even places like China and Poland that will never listen to other heads of religion. The only other head of religion that shares this type of status is the Dali Lama (sp?) and this is because he is the political head of Tibet.

 

[PattiDay]

Um - I hate to bring this up but do we not realize that outside the walls of the Vatican is actually a different country known as Italy - you could sell all of the artwork you want in the Vatican and still have starving people in Italy - it is like not finishing your supper and your mother telling you about starving kids in China. The Vatican is only a 1 mile squared country. The reason it is it’s own country is for head of state status which allows the Church to argue on matters of life, peace, health, etc at places like the UN and in even places like China and Poland that will never listen to other heads of religion. The only other head of religion that shares this type of status is the Dali Lama (sp?) and this is because he is the political head of Tibet.

Joan, rightly said. I find the comment about the Catholic church selling its artwork and statues to help the poor to be a red herring when given as a reason why one would not consider being Catholic. If you did a search you would find The Catholic church does more as an institution to help the poor and didadvantaged than probably all of the other major protestant denominations together.

If you sold every item down to the hinges on the doors in the Vatican, there would still be poor people. Are you familiar with the following:

Matthew 26:6-13

While Jesus was in Bethany in the home of a man known as Simon the Leper, a woman came to him with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, which she poured on his head as he was reclining at the table. When the disciples saw this, they were indignant. “Why this waste?” they asked. “This perfume could have been sold at a high price and the money given to the poor.”

Aware of this, Jesus said to them, “Why are you bothering this woman? She has done a beautiful thing to me. The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me. When she poured this perfume on my body, she did it to prepare me for burial. I tell you the truth, wherever this gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”

God bless

 

[JRKH]

To everyone - Please bear in mind that the OP is fairly young…He says in his Op: *“Keep in mind, I’m much too young to marry at this point…”*Just how much young he is, or how much younger when he visited Rome, we do not know.

However, in a young person very direct, and simplistic, lines can be drawn. In this case, poor beggar woman and fancy riches…are things that just don’t add up and frankly I agree with him. The Church would not be damaged in any spiritual sense should she sell off these “riches”. They are just “things” and we, as Christians, should put no stock in them.

However I also understand the reasons NOT to sell them, public display, the fact that many were gifts, Part of our heritage etc…along with the fact that, as someone else pointed out, the money from the sale would be gone in a day and the poor would still be among us.

The bottom line is that ultimately the Vatican treasures will not keep this young man out of The Church any more than they will draw him in.
There certainly are other things of greater import and impact that prevent Curious from entering The Church.

Peace
James

 

[joanofarc2008]

To everyone - Please bear in mind that the OP is fairly young…He says in his Op: *“Keep in mind, I’m much too young to marry at this point…”*Just how much young he is, or how much younger when he visited Rome, we do not know.

However, in a young person very direct, and simplistic, lines can be drawn. In this case, poor beggar woman and fancy riches…are things that just don’t add up and frankly I agree with him. The Church would not be damaged in any spiritual sense should she sell off these “riches”. They are just “things” and we, as Christians, should put no stock in them.

However I also understand the reasons NOT to sell them, public display, the fact that many were gifts, Part of our heritage etc…along with the fact that, as someone else pointed out, the money from the sale would be gone in a day and the poor would still be among us.

The bottom line is that ultimately the Vatican treasures will not keep this young man out of The Church any more than they will draw him in.
There certainly are other things of greater import and impact that prevent Curious from entering The Church.

Peace
James

Very true - it is sometimes tough when you see a scene like that not to put in the context it belongs in and not the context of an American understanding. In an American understanding it would be a shame - but in this context it is something completely difference which leads to a whole different discussion of reading the Bible contextually vs fundamentally.

 

[ConsciousCoward]

Beyond the statues and assorted pieces of artwork I saw at the Vatican, there are other things that keep me away from Catholicism. I don’t entirely fit into one subset of Christianity; I see Protestant faiths as being imperfect just like Catholicism. But each has truths that some others don’t, too. I’ve continued attending my church because I’m part of a community, and to leave them would be to leave my Bible Study, my accountability group, my worship band, and all other fellowship-based connections I have with them. But even if I didn’t have those connections and did leave, I wouldn’t be able to reconcile every aspect of Catholicism with what I believe to be true, and to be a good Catholic requires upholding ALL of the practices and beliefs as decreed.

For those wondering my age, I’m 18. I was 17 when I went to Italy.

Marriage isn’t something that’s going to happen soon for me. My girlfriend, as this conflict of faith has shown me, probably won’t end up being the one. If I marry while in college, it will be to a girl that will come with me to help those who truly need it. If I can’t find that girl, I’ll wait until after my trip. Whatever God wills.

Regardless, I thank you all for the insight you contributed to my question.

 

[JRKH]

Beyond the statues and assorted pieces of artwork I saw at the Vatican, there are other things that keep me away from Catholicism. I don’t entirely fit into one subset of Christianity; I see Protestant faiths as being imperfect just like Catholicism. But each has truths that some others don’t, too.

This is a position that I held for many years until I finally was able to reconcile myself with the Truth of the Church. Not that I understand all the doctrines and dogmas, heck I probably don’t even know all of them. But two things were total deal makers for me…well maybe three…
First and foremost was the Eucharist. This more than anything else called me home. I needed our Lord in the Sacrament.
Second was the asbolute surity of Apostolic succession. For all the faults and historical missteps etc. Christ’s promise to His Church and the clear line of succession from then to now is undeniable.
Third and closely tied to the second is authority. Scripture tells me that The Church is the pillar and bulwak of Truth. Scripture tells me to “tell it to The Church” when there are problems - and then to “Listen to The Church” because she has the authority to “bind and loose” - “whatever”
Those were my reasons anyway and they have helped me tremendously on my journey.

I’ve continued attending my church because I’m part of a community, and to leave them would be to leave my Bible Study, my accountability group, my worship band, and all other fellowship-based connections I have with them. But even if I didn’t have those connections and did leave, I wouldn’t be able to reconcile every aspect of Catholicism with what I believe to be true, and to be a good Catholic requires upholding ALL of the practices and beliefs as decreed.

I applaud your spiritual honesty in saying that you would not ba a Catholic unless you could be a good Catholic. I wish some cradle Catholics could be this honest.
Community IS a powerful connection and for now, it appears this is where you need to be. May God continue to guide you.

For those wondering my age, I’m 18. I was 17 when I went to Italy.

Thanks. Figured it had to be about this age. I remember how I was in those says. Rather idealistic. I suspect that my reaction to the beggar woman situation would have been similar to yours.
I must advise you that it is a real trick to get from 18 to 56 (my current age) and still maintain such idealism…I pray that you will. I’m trying to recover mine…

Marriage isn’t something that’s going to happen soon for me. My girlfriend, as this conflict of faith has shown me, probably won’t end up being the one. If I marry while in college, it will be to a girl that will come with me to help those who truly need it. If I can’t find that girl, I’ll wait until after my trip. Whatever God wills.

Good attitude.

Regardless, I thank you all for the insight you contributed to my question.

Happy to oblige. As you have no doubt noted, we do love to discuss the faith.

Peace
James