Protestant Pastors Who Marry and Divorce (And Remarry!)

[suburbanzombie]

I just wanted to open a friendly discussion about what you guys think about a leader of a church getting married. Obviously it is widely known that Catholic priests generally do not marry (and certainly do not divorce or remarry). For a long time I thought this seemed unfair (the getting married part, not the divorcing part). I thought, how could a priest counsel married men and women if he has never experienced this? Surely a married priest could understand his congregation better.

Then I met a very kind and knowledgeable United Methodist Pastor who was not only married, divorced, and remarried but also a woman. I respect this woman, and I have attended many of her church services. She does well with her work, and I do not doubt her faith. However, it is hard for me to see her as role model. I do not know the reasons for her divorce, and I know the Methodists do not view divorce in the same way as Catholics. However, I personally believe marriage is a contract between two people to love each other unconditionally and remain together until death. If you don’t think you can do this, you shouldn’t get married in the first place. I understand that people get divorced every day, and there are many good reasons. However, I believe that if you love someone when you are married, you can work things out in almost every situation.

So I guess the question is, should someone who has been divorced and remarried be a Pastor? To me a pastor or a priest is a man or woman of God, someone who is to lead a pure life and set an example for the congregation, the people who look up to them.

 

[cooterhein]

I just wanted to open a friendly discussion about what you guys think about a leader of a church getting married.

Well, I’m not Catholic, so I’m quite open to the idea.

Obviously it is widely known that Catholic priests generally do not marry (and certainly do not divorce or remarry). For a long time I thought this seemed unfair (the getting married part, not the divorcing part). I thought, how could a priest counsel married men and women if he has never experienced this? Surely a married priest could understand his congregation better.

Experiencing a marriage certainly helps, and in more ways than one. Pastors (and religious leaders of any variety) are frequently called upon to mentor and counsel members of the congregation, so if the pastor can take the men to one extent or another and his wife can be involved with the women in some capacity, that can work out pretty well. Things could be better, though- it’s very rare for bible colleges and seminaries to have marriage-specific curriculum for people pursuing a pastor-type position. From the formal training end, there’s quite a bit to be desired. Personal experience helps, but it’s not everything.

Then I met a very kind and knowledgeable United Methodist Pastor who was not only married, divorced, and remarried but also a woman. I respect this woman, and I have attended many of her church services. She does well with her work, and I do not doubt her faith. However, it is hard for me to see her as role model.

Yeah, I can’t blame you too much for that. Pastors tend to be held to a higher standard (as well they should be). I do know a lot of pastors, but I haven’t met any that were divorced and/or remarried…not much of a surprise, though, because they tend to come from a fairly conservative crowd.

I’m sure it would have a lot to do with my personal experience and the expectations I’ve developed, but I probably would look a tad askance at a divorced-and-remarried pastor. That’s pretty far out of the ordinary in my experience. And I realize that’s just my experience- but I also think that’s what a normal experience should be. That should be out of the ordinary, and it should come as a surprise when people see it. If it doesn’t, I think that’s indicative of a problem.

I do not know the reasons for her divorce, and I know the Methodists do not view divorce in the same way as Catholics. However, I personally believe marriage is a contract between two people to love each other unconditionally and remain together until death. If you don’t think you can do this, you shouldn’t get married in the first place.

Absolutely.

I understand that people get divorced every day, and there are many good reasons. However, I believe that if you love someone when you are married, you can work things out in almost every situation.

I don’t know about “many good reasons”…I believe there are many reasons, but there’s really about two or three of them that are any good.

So I guess the question is, should someone who has been divorced and remarried be a Pastor?

Depends. It’s a tough sell, though. Like I said, it’s a higher standard. It’s not like they’re applying for membership or seeking a position as a teacher at a private Christian school. As with either of those circumstances, I’d expect the appropriate people in leadership to explore the situation and give it a thorough review. But I would expect…actually, it depends on the church. What I would want to expect is a situation where it’s a tougher sell than for almost any other position you could think of, but not a completely impossible situation where a divorced person need not even bother trying.

To me a pastor or a priest is a man or woman of God, someone who is to lead a pure life and set an example for the congregation, the people who look up to them.

My thoughts exactly. That’s why the standard is high, and that’s why it’s a really tough sell. I think it’s possible for a divorcee to pull all that off, but it’s pretty rare and it’s dang hard.

 

[Reuben_J]

.
So I guess the question is, should someone who has been divorced and remarried be a Pastor? To me a pastor or a priest is a man or woman of God, someone who is to lead a pure life and set an example for the congregation, the people who look up to them.

In theory anybody can be a pastor, it shouldn’t depend on his marital status. That being said, yes, a pastor needs to put his house in order first and he should be in good standing spiritually and morally. Paul speaks about this quite clearly in 1 Tim 3.

This however does not mean that a priest or a pastor is protected from falling into sin and inequity. If the condition to be pastor or priest is as stated above, probably nobody can really qualify to do this job.

Catholic priests (Latin Rite) are required to be celibate. That status will not in any way should affect his capability in discharging his duty as a priest including giving counsel to married couples.

Every Christian, by virtue of his/her baptism is called to assume certain responsibility and to be accountable for it. Priests/pastors have certain role to perform and play but Christians are not totally dependent on them in matter of living the Christian life.

 

[suburbanzombie]

Experiencing a marriage certainly helps, and in more ways than one. Pastors (and religious leaders of any variety) are frequently called upon to mentor and counsel members of the congregation, so if the pastor can take the men to one extent or another and his wife can be involved with the women in some capacity, that can work out pretty well. Things could be better, though- it’s very rare for bible colleges and seminaries to have marriage-specific curriculum for people pursuing a pastor-type position. From the formal training end, there’s quite a bit to be desired. Personal experience helps, but it’s not everything

I agree with you. I think however that personal experience may be valued more than education when it comes to the comfort level of the person being counseled. For example, I would personally find it harder to talk to a priest who has never been married about infertility or birth control options that could be addressed from a religious point of view. It would be interesting to see how, if at all, priests are advised to deal with that kind of subject matter.

Depends. It’s a tough sell, though. Like I said, it’s a higher standard. It’s not like they’re applying for membership or seeking a position as a teacher at a private Christian school. As with either of those circumstances, I’d expect the appropriate people in leadership to explore the situation and give it a thorough review. But I would expect…actually, it depends on the church. What I would want to expect is a situation where it’s a tougher sell than for almost any other position you could think of, but not a completely impossible situation where a divorced person need not even bother trying.

I agree with you here. I guess it really depends on the circumstance of the divorce as well. If the pastor had a good reason for being divorced and could share his or her story and help others, it actually might be beneficial. I’m not sure why this particular pastor was divorced, but I do think she was divorced and remarried prior to becoming a pastor. I also don’t know the requirements of becoming a Methodist pastor.

In theory anybody can be a pastor, it shouldn’t depend on his marital status. That being said, yes, a pastor needs to put his house in order first and he should be in good standing spiritually and morally. Paul speaks about this quite clearly in 1 Tim 3.

This however does not mean that a priest or a pastor is protected from falling into sin and inequity. If the condition to be pastor or priest is as stated above, probably nobody can really qualify to do this job.

Every Christian, by virtue of his/her baptism is called to assume certain responsibility and to be accountable for it. Priests/pastors have certain role to perform and play but Christians are not totally dependent on them in matter of living the Christian life.

Like I said above, I actually think that she was divorced and remarried prior to becoming a pastor, so maybe she got her life together and then realized she was being called to be a pastor. I agree that Christians are not totally dependent on pastors for an example of living a Christian life. However, there are usually strict rules about other moral values that are required in becoming a pastor. If you have led a life of crime, chances are you couldn’t become a pastor. This is of course a smaller sin, depending on who you ask, but where do you draw the line? I guess the real question is, just how devout should you be to become a pastor and should the mistakes of your past prevent you from becoming one?

I think it would be very hard to define a set of rules to become a pastor. Especially since morals vary from person to person and also between denominations.

 

[Reuben_J]

Like I said above, I actually think that she was divorced and remarried prior to becoming a pastor, so maybe she got her life together and then realized she was being called to be a pastor. I agree that Christians are not totally dependent on pastors for an example of living a Christian life. However, there are usually strict rules about other moral values that are required in becoming a pastor. If you have led a life of crime, chances are you couldn’t become a pastor. This is of course a smaller sin, depending on who you ask, but where do you draw the line? I guess the real question is, just how devout should you be to become a pastor and should the mistakes of your past prevent you from becoming one?

I think it would be very hard to define a set of rules to become a pastor. Especially since morals vary from person to person and also between denominations.

Some Protestant denominations do have strict criteria on pastors though my information on this can be restrictive.

As for Catholic priests, anybody (unmarried male) can be priests as long as they want to. Past life is not a criterion at all; what is most important is the desire to be one, though of course in deeper context priesthood is actually a vocation, that is, one is called to be a priest.

There are priests who came from dubious backgrounds and who in fact had very questionable past. Ironically it is this category that very often makes very good priests. So looking at this we do not make judgment on their past but rather what they are now. This is very consistent with the apostles and what Jesus said, ‘I come not for the healthy but the sick’. Pastor/priest can come from such as those.

 

[Being_Brave]

I’ll admit, do loose a little respect for any church leaders who have failed marrages ending in divorce. It’s not respect for them as people, but as counselors that is diminished. Yes, there are pros to consulting with them…obviously they know what not to do from experience, but I think that celibate Priests have the gift of learning vicariously and that can be just as beneficial. In some cases the priests actually did try to have relationships before answering their vocation, so they do have some experience in relationship issues.

I kinda think of it like coaching a sports team. Some of the best coaches can’t play the sport they coach, but they know the rules better than the players and they come up with some very effective plays. Sometimes watching from the outside can be better than getting wrapped up in playing the game yourself.

 

[Reuben_J]

Just a little reminder since we are on this. I don’t know about Protestant pastors but Catholic priest’s role is mainly as spiritual pastor and clergy, not expert in some professions. Thus most of what they do is to administer spiritual activities in the parish which lay people cannot do by virtue of them not being priests.

The Church like Paul says consists of a body of many parts. Marriage couples may come to the priests to get spiritual advice and direction and they would benefit from this as the (name removed by moderator)ut from the priest is not only secular but spiritual. We believe that the spiritual element in marriage cannot be dealt with by expert counsel alone as lots of marital problem has its root in being not faithful to the spiritual requirement of marriage itself.

 

[Publisher]

The pastors that I have been acquainted with from other faith traditions that have been “divorced” and “remarried” have done so after a lengthy review by their superiors.

Since Protestant groups do not have the same process as Catholics do to determine if a “marriage took place” and if it can be “annulled” leaving the parties free to “remarry”, those pastors who wish to continue and serve in the church must go through a counseling program to determine if they are “fit” to serve.

I only speak of those instances which I am aware of…one pastor in particular was not allowed to continue serving his congregation because he was divorced. After several years, he and his wife reconcilled…but he was still barred from ministry in his particular religious community.

Those pastors that have continued to serve while being remarried have done so AFTER counseling and many interviews by their superiors.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Is it the separation and divorce which causes the squeamishness? Or is it the remarriage? Both? What if children are involved?

The charismatic founder of my particular denomination was divorced, she probably disappeared and had an extra marital affair at on point in her life. My first church home was housed in a building once containing a mega church then the pastor divorced and remarried with in a week of the divorce being finalized. The denomination demanded he step down for 6 months while they investigated the situation. He pulled the public race card and became a Bishop of another denomination so now he is also a bishop like the other senior pastors of the local mega churches.

Then there is the case of Bishop Gene Robinson. As a church member I don’t see it as a case of a pastor falling down but rather that he got back up again. And we probably disagree about divorce/annulment when he it come down to what is in meant by one wife in Timothy 3 and Titus 1

Many of the men in my church’s men’s ministry know what I did, because of that past do I just fill a seat in the back pews now? Or do I do what I do best for the Kingdom. In my case I am not a speaker or pastor.

 

[ignatius777]

I just wanted to open a friendly discussion about what you guys think about a leader of a church getting married. Obviously it is widely known that Catholic priests generally do not marry (and certainly do not divorce or remarry). For a long time I thought this seemed unfair (the getting married part, not the divorcing part). I thought, how could a priest counsel married men and women if he has never experienced this? Surely a married priest could understand his congregation better.

Then I met a very kind and knowledgeable United Methodist Pastor who was not only married, divorced, and remarried but also a woman. I respect this woman, and I have attended many of her church services. She does well with her work, and I do not doubt her faith. However, it is hard for me to see her as role model. I do not know the reasons for her divorce, and I know the Methodists do not view divorce in the same way as Catholics. However, I personally believe marriage is a contract between two people to love each other unconditionally and remain together until death. If you don’t think you can do this, you shouldn’t get married in the first place. I understand that people get divorced every day, and there are many good reasons. However, I believe that if you love someone when you are married, you can work things out in almost every situation.

So I guess the question is, should someone who has been divorced and remarried be a Pastor? To me a pastor or a priest is a man or woman of God, someone who is to lead a pure life and set an example for the congregation, the people who look up to them.

I am not sure its anyone place to say who can be a pstor but its up to us to decide what we will accept and what we wont. My wife and I were married by a priest, who obviously was never married, whose opionon about marital communication I would accept without hesitation. There are alos married men I know whose advice about how to treat a woman or their wife I would reject at every turn.

 

[manualman]

Protestants say that they live by the Word of God and mostly recognize that Jesus said some pretty blunt things about divorce and remarriage. Perhaps there are a few that close their eyes and refuse to notice that teaching, but I doubt it.

Rather I would guess that most of them (perhaps not explicitly) end up accepting the meat of the catholic understanding of marriage and the potential for an apparent marriage NOT to have accomplished the status of “what God has joined.” I would guess that it depends on denomination as to whether each person decides for him/herself if there was a defect and that the putative marriage was null (though unlikely in those words) or whether there is a denominational structure that assists in this discernment.

I find it amazing that anyone with a grey hair or two to demonstrate experience with human bias and rationalization could defend the idea of self-administered annullments, but stranger things DO happen…

 

[UniversalistGuy]

I just wanted to open a friendly discussion about what you guys think about a leader of a church getting married. Obviously it is widely known that Catholic priests generally do not marry (and certainly do not divorce or remarry). For a long time I thought this seemed unfair (the getting married part, not the divorcing part). I thought, how could a priest counsel married men and women if he has never experienced this? Surely a married priest could understand his congregation better.

I’ve been thinking about this too and I’m in agreement with the idea that a married priest is likely to be a much better counselor for married people than a priest who has no personal experience of marriage.

Then I met a very kind and knowledgeable United Methodist Pastor who was not only married, divorced, and remarried but also a woman. I respect this woman, and I have attended many of her church services. She does well with her work, and I do not doubt her faith. However, it is hard for me to see her as role model. I do not know the reasons for her divorce, and I know the Methodists do not view divorce in the same way as Catholics.

If you don’t know the reasons for her divorce I guess there’s nothing to stop you giving her the benefit of the doubt if you would like to do that.

However, I personally believe marriage is a contract between two people to love each other unconditionally and remain together until death. If you don’t think you can do this, you shouldn’t get married in the first place. I understand that people get divorced every day, and there are many good reasons. However, I believe that if you love someone when you are married, you can work things out in almost every situation.

If one party decides not to work things out then there’s no way the other party can do anything about it. You can’t make people love each other, communicate with each or have any kind of relationship unless both are willing. If one of the parties stops believing in the marriage and refuses to work things out then the marriage collapses and the other party is powerless to do anything about it.

So I guess the question is, should someone who has been divorced and remarried be a Pastor?

Yes unless there’s some rule or tradition that stands in the way.

To me a pastor or a priest is a man or woman of God, someone who is to lead a pure life and set an example for the congregation, the people who look up to them.

Suppose she’s a woman whose husband cheated on her and then divorced her and made her miserable and unhappy in the process? Should she be seen as impure and a bad example because of something that wasn’t her fault? Maybe you should find out the reason why she got divorced?

 

[Jim_Dandy]

If a couple wants counseling, they should go to a marriage counselor. A priest does not do marriage counseling, unless he happens to be a psychologist. A priest gives spiritual direction.

It’s what God requires that matters. A sacramental marriage bond cannot be broken. Divorce is not forbidden absolutely. Remarriage after divorce is.

Protestants believe what they prefer to believe concerning this and all moral questions, in spite of claiming that they follow the Bible.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southtern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, exstatic to be Catholic!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I just wanted to open a friendly discussion about what you guys think about a leader of a church getting married. Obviously it is widely known that Catholic priests generally do not marry (and certainly do not divorce or remarry). For a long time I thought this seemed unfair (the getting married part, not the divorcing part). I thought, how could a priest counsel married men and women if he has never experienced this? Surely a married priest could understand his congregation better.

First, Eastern Catholic priest can indeed marry before they are ordained a deacon (or was it a subdeacon, which is a minor order).

Second, marriage advice doesn’t only come from personal experience. Actually thats the worst kind of advice. Because each marriage is unique, what works for one couple may not work for another. So if couple A tells couple B that something works for them, there’s a strong chance it may not work for couple B. Priest are trained councelors, and many priests have spoken to many couples through marriage and spiritual concelling. I am unsure but I think that even the things they hear in confession, even though they cannot directly act on it, would help them formulate ways to solve problems of couples.

Then I met a very kind and knowledgeable United Methodist Pastor who was not only married, divorced, and remarried but also a woman. I respect this woman, and I have attended many of her church services. She does well with her work, and I do not doubt her faith. However, it is hard for me to see her as role model. I do not know the reasons for her divorce, and I know the Methodists do not view divorce in the same way as Catholics. However, I personally believe marriage is a contract between two people to love each other unconditionally and remain together until death. If you don’t think you can do this, you shouldn’t get married in the first place. I understand that people get divorced every day, and there are many good reasons. However, I believe that if you love someone when you are married, you can work things out in almost every situation.

So I guess the question is, should someone who has been divorced and remarried be a Pastor? To me a pastor or a priest is a man or woman of God, someone who is to lead a pure life and set an example for the congregation, the people who look up to them.

I was listening to a Pentecostal pastor once and he exlaimed that it was such a blessing his son divorced a woman who wouldn’t want to go with the son to the Philippines for his mission work (they’re Americans) and now he has met and married a woman who was willing to go to the Philippines with him. I wanted to raise my hand and asked him about Christ’s words on divorce and how can he call a divorce as a blessing? But I held back knowing I’m a guest there (I was there to attend a dinner which somehow turned into preaching. The more should I be greatful for the free meal, so I shut my mouth).

 

[PRmerger]

Is it the separation and divorce which causes the squeamishness? Or is it the remarriage? Both? What if children are involved?

It would seem that what should cause the “squeamishness” would be disobeying the instructions of Our Lord who gave a hard teaching on this: if you divorce and remarry you commit adultery.

[BIBLEDRB]Matt 5:32[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Jim_Dandy]

The sad fact is that the Eastern Orthodox allow three marriages, two divorces, and contraception (the latter does not concern this thread). It makes me weep. I’ve never looked into the Oriental Orthodox. Does anyone know?

Jim Dandy

 

[ConstantineTG]

The sad fact is that the Eastern Orthodox allow three marriages, two divorces, and contraception (the latter does not concern this thread). It makes me weep. I’ve never looked into the Oriental Orthodox. Does anyone know?

Jim Dandy

This is such a blanket statement that shows lack of understanding of the Orthodox faith. There should be a deeper understanding of what they do, and why. Its not as simple as the Protestant and secular understanding and acceptance of divorce.

 

[UniversalistGuy]

The sad fact is that the Eastern Orthodox allow three marriages, two divorces, and contraception (the latter does not concern this thread). It makes me weep. I’ve never looked into the Oriental Orthodox. Does anyone know?

Jim Dandy

Why does it make you weep? Did you used to be Orthodox or something?

 

[suburbanzombie]

If a couple wants counseling, they should go to a marriage counselor. A priest does not do marriage counseling, unless he happens to be a psychologist. A priest gives spiritual direction.

It’s what God requires that matters. A sacramental marriage bond cannot be broken. Divorce is not forbidden absolutely. Remarriage after divorce is.

Protestants believe what they prefer to believe concerning this and all moral questions, in spite of claiming that they follow the Bible.

Jim Dandy
Ex-Southtern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, exstatic to be Catholic!

I was under the impression that in order to be married, you must go through Catholic marriage counseling. Perhaps counseling isn’t the correct word, but I was pretty sure you had to meet with the priest a few times and take a few classes in some instances in order to have a Catholic marriage. In any case, I think a good priest or pastor would be able to counsel anyone in a spiritual way. He might not be a psychologist, but when someone has a problem in their marriage that they wanted advice on according to the Bible, not modern theory, they would go to their priest or pastor. I am not saying a priest would not be good at this, I’m sure the vast majority are, but I have heard many complain that they feel like a priest cannot possibly understand in a way a married person could. This of course isn’t from personal experience because I am not married, so I have no opinion on that particular aspect.

 

[Reuben_J]

I was under the impression that in order to be married, you must go through Catholic marriage counseling. Perhaps counseling isn’t the correct word, but I was pretty sure you had to meet with the priest a few times and take a few classes in some instances in order to have a Catholic marriage. In any case, I think a good priest or pastor would be able to counsel anyone in a spiritual way. He might not be a psychologist, but when someone has a problem in their marriage that they wanted advice on according to the Bible, not modern theory, they would go to their priest or pastor. I am not saying a priest would not be good at this, I’m sure the vast majority are, but I have heard many complain that they feel like a priest cannot possibly understand in a way a married person could. This of course isn’t from personal experience because I am not married, so I have no opinion on that particular aspect.

More and more Catholics who intend to get married nowadays will go through a pre-nuptial seminar and perhaps follow-up instruction on Natural family Planning. If the pre-nuptial is given, there will be a session for the priest to be involved. So you see, it is quite a lot like what you get though probably the seminar will cover more areas in marriage life. Priest together with the lay experts would conduct such seminar when it is given. If a priest is going through preliminary interview with the pre-nuptial couple, it is to ensure no impediment is unsolved for them to get married.

Sometimes we seem to get the idea that a priest must be a marriage counselor in order that he can counsel married couple. That is certainly not so but even then, marriage counselor too won’t be able to completely deal with marriage issue especially the spiritual aspect of it.

Pre-nuptial seminar can cover topic like:

• Christian marriage
• Communication in marriage
• Christian husband
• Christian wife
• Parenting