Protestant Pickle

[abcd]

You ment Odell

but how do you dissmiss all the scripture that I have given? You dont answer a single question.

are you that stumped

What do you figure a bible Christian cant answer bible questions:shrug:

Sorry O’dell. I am being flooded by the board and gets little confusing.

Is this the scriptures you are reffering to?
” (Heb 12:5-11) verse 6 “for whom the Lord loves he disciplines.” Do you not think that we will be disciplined for unrepentant sins after we die? 1 Cor 3:11-15 seems to suggest that we do.

Christians are disciplined on earth one way or another for sins commited on earth. Works done for wrong motives will receive no reward yet I will be saved

 

[rtconstant]

Sorry O’dell. I am being flooded by the board and gets little confusing.

Is this the scriptures you are reffering to?
” (Heb 12:5-11) verse 6 “for whom the Lord loves he disciplines.” Do you not think that we will be disciplined for unrepentant sins after we die? 1 Cor 3:11-15 seems to suggest that we do.

Christians are disciplined on earth one way or another for sins commited on earth. Works done for wrong motives will receive no reward yet I will be saved

OK, now you’re talking like someone who believes that Grace is imputed. Because, with imputation what we do doesn’t matter.

 

[abcd]

OK, now you’re talking like someone who believes that Grace is imputed. Because, with imputation what we do doesn’t matter.

How many times do I have to say this?
You catholics keep singing the same old tune, that what we do not not matter. More false stuff to confuse catholics and non-catholics. Imputation has nothing to do with how you live for Christ. Being a true Christian is what matters.

It sounds like you are saying that if you belived in imputation you would live ln continual sin. Is that correct?

 

[jmcrae]

Christians are disciplined on earth one way or another for sins commited on earth. Works done for wrong motives will receive no reward yet I will be saved

Salvation is the reward. If you are receiving “no reward” then you are not “saved.”

We can’t work our way into Heaven because it is Christ who perfects us, infuses our hearts with His grace, and makes us to be people who do His works for the right reasons. But we can certainly work our way into Hell, simply by rejecting Christ’s gift by choosing not to do Christ’s works, or doing them for the wrong reasons.

 

[Odell]

Sorry O’dell. I am being flooded by the board and gets little confusing.

Is this the scriptures you are reffering to?
” (Heb 12:5-11) verse 6 “for whom the Lord loves he disciplines.” Do you not think that we will be disciplined for unrepentant sins after we die? 1 Cor 3:11-15 seems to suggest that we do.

Christians are disciplined on earth one way or another for sins commited on earth. Works done for wrong motives will receive no reward yet I will be saved

Did you not say that you are innocent? Why are you disciplined for something you are innocent of?

and what does suffering mean to you just a short protestant christian answer?

here is some help

2 Cor. 1:5-7- if we share abundantly in Christ’s sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort as well. If we unite our sufferings with His, we will be comforted by Him.

Eph. 3:13 - Do not to lose heart over my sufferings for your glory. Our suffering also benefits others in the mystical body of Christ.

Phil. 1:29 - for the sake of Christ we are not only to believe in Him but also to suffer for His sake. Growing in holiness requires more than having faith in God and accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. We must also willfully embrace the suffering that befalls us as part of God’s plan. Thus, Christ does not want our faith alone, but our faith in action which includes faith in suffering.

Phil. 3:10 - Paul desires to share in Christ’s sufferings in order to obtain the resurrection. Paul recognizes the efficacy of suffering as a means of obtaining holiness which leads to resurrection and eternal life. There is no Easter Sunday without Good Friday.

Need anymore?

Originally Posted by abcd
Works will be burned up because works do not save but this has nothing to do with purgatory.

I responded to you Iassume you have no answer

tell me then how is it that one suffers loss in this state? We dont suffer loss in heaven do we? We dont suffer loss in hell then get out do we?
**
And the stumper**

If suffering has no meaning than how is it we will suffer loss and then be saved by the fire that we are suffeirng from?

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
“For no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it.(this is when we die). It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will SUFFER loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. “

You must answer these things they are simple bible questions:thumbsup:

 

[abcd]

If suffering has no meaning than how is it we will suffer loss and then be saved by the fire that we are suffeirng from?

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
“For no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it.(this is when we die). It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will SUFFER loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. “

You must answer these things they are simple bible questions:thumbsup:

Yes, they are simple questions. Common sense actually. You can suffer many ways in this life. Figure. Being saved by fire does not mean a literal fire.

 

[Schabel]

James,

Sanctification is an ongoing thing all our lives. Why do you imply above that I do not believe this. Imputation does not take away the fact that you need not or don’t want to live a pleasing life to the Lord or bear fruit? Why make assumtions like these because they are not true.

Infusion is not scriptual as you state. I gave the scriptures concerning imputation.

Of what use is sanctification at all if you’re imputed to be righteous? This diminishes sanctification to the point of trivializing it.

 

[abcd]

Of what use is sanctification at all if you’re imputed to be righteous? This diminishes sanctification to the point of trivializing it.

Well, cant hardly answer that question cause it don’t make much sense. Imputation does not make you sinless. Sanctification is an ongoing process as I said.
Infusion would make you perfect…

 

[jmcrae]

Well, cant hardly answer that question cause it don’t make much sense. Imputation does not make you sinless.

But apparently it makes you “saved.”

Sanctification is an ongoing process as I said.

But why bother with it, if you are “saved” already?

Infusion would make you perfect…

It does. It’s an ongoing process; not a one-time thing. But we do have to be completely perfect at the moment of death, in order to go directly to Heaven.

If we are still in our sins, then we go to Hell, and if we are still struggling with temptation (but are not actually in sin) then we go to Purgatory.

 

[Schabel]

**To equate the righteousness of Christ’s imputation **with telling a lie is showing you have no understanding of the consequence of infusion and impartation.

Yours is a ridiculous statement not really worthy of an answer.

But isn’t that the very definition of a lie: declaring something to be true when you know in fact is isn’t?

Now, I’d agree that God isn’t capable of telling a lie. In fact, His words are so effective that the mere pronouncement of them makes things so.

So, how does that fit in with your belief in imputation?

 

[Schabel]

But apparently it makes you “saved.”

But why bother with it, if you are “saved” already?

OK, you beat me to it.

If we are still in our sins, then we go to Hell, and if we are still struggling with temptation (but are not actually in sin) then we go to Purgatory.

Agreed, IF those sins are deadly.

 

[Odell]

Yes, they are simple questions. Common sense actually. You can suffer many ways in this life.

but why?

I provided scripture. What did you provide nothing. you dont sound very convincing.

if they are common sense answer my questions

You come here trying to prove a point but how can you prove a point when you dont answer question but just statements?

siunds to me you dotn know what you are talking about

some bible christian you are

Figure. Being saved by fire does not mean a literal fire

In fact Catholic believe purgatory is Gods fire remember it is not literal fire. That is your words tell me then what is the fire?

maybe this will help notice Im given you more scripture try reading it this time.

Well God is a consuming fire in Heb 12:29. “For our God is a consuming fire.”

1 Peter 1:7 says “So that the genuineness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by FIRE, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor AT the revelation of Jesus Christ.” Sounds a lot like the fire that 1Corithians was talking about after we die.

(Rev. 3:18-19) “I advise you to buy from me gold refined by** fire **so that you may be rich, and white garments to put on so that your shameful nakedness may not be exposed, and buy ointment to smear on your eyes so that you may see. Those whom I love, I reprove and chastise. Be earnest, therefore, and repent.”

This is after we die because Jesus is speaking from heaven and is awarding white garments of salvation after being purified by fire.

another question you refuse to answer

Did you not say that you are innocent? Why are you disciplined for something you are innocent of?

question 2 that you refuse to answer
tell me then how is it that one suffers loss in this state? We dont suffer loss in heaven do we? We dont suffer loss in hell then get out do we?

And the stumper

If suffering has no meaning than how is it we will suffer loss and then be saved by the fire that we are suffeirng from?

This may not be real fire but it realy is suffering and that suffering saves us. Any answers:shrug:

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
“For no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it.(this is when we die). It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up, that one will SUFFER loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. “

this really is a stumbling block for you and I realize you cant anser this but see if you can its got to be dishearting not knowing how to answer but you have to realize you are wrong.

 

[rtconstant]

How many times do I have to say this?
You catholics keep singing the same old tune, that what we do not not matter. More false stuff to confuse catholics and non-catholics. Imputation has nothing to do with how you live for Christ. Being a true Christian is what matters.

It sounds like you are saying that if you belived in imputation you would live ln continual sin. Is that correct?

No, but imputation removes the need to live for Christ. I’m not saying that you personally think that you can do whatever you want. However, that is what your theology states. Imputation removes the need to Godly living because the Christ nature that is imputed to you is already perfect so what you do under its cover is irrelevant. Also as you said in the statement that I responded to earlier. When we sin we get no reward, but you’re still saved. In other words you do get a reward, you just got SAVED. The biggest reward of all time.

See this is the problem with imputed grace. You don’t even really believe it. You’re trying to come up with psuedo “punishments” for bad behavior but any punishment is to much if Grace is imputed unto us. If when The Father looks down upon us He sees only the image of His Son then we should expect nothing but rewards regardless of how we’ve lead our lives.

Now as rational people most Protestants (rightly) understand it really can’t work that way so they still pay service to the idea that how you live is important. Though they struggle with explaining how it actually can be important. Which more or less boils down to arbitrary theology.

 

[abcd]

But apparently it makes you “saved.”

But why bother with it, if you are “saved” already?

It does. It’s an ongoing process; not a one-time thing. But we do have to be completely perfect at the moment of death, in order to go directly to Heaven.

If we are still in our sins, then we go to Hell, and if we are still struggling with temptation (but are not actually in sin) then we go to Purgatory.

**

Why Bother??** Its hard to believe you would say such a thing. No true Christian would even consider the thought.

Thank you but because of Christ I will not need to be purged in the fiction place called purgatory.

 

[Schabel]

Why Bother?? Its hard to believe you would say such a thing. No true Christian would even consider the thought.

So you don’t have an answer?

Thank you but because of Christ I will not need to be purged in the fiction place called purgatory.

Well, since nothing impure will enter Heaven, that means that you consider that you will be perfect by the time you die?

 

[Odell]

**

Why Bother??** Its hard to believe you would say such a thing. No true Christian would even consider the thought.

Thank you but because of Christ I will not need to be purged in the fiction place called purgatory.

Your not even purged in this life your covered so tell me how you plan on geting to heaven with those sins that are coverd?
**
I expect no answer**

why is it fictional? Have you given us any proof that it s fictional?

You dont even repond to biblical questions. You just come in this chatroom make a statement and leave. Yoiu have alot of questions to answer and I want let you get by without answering them.

You have proven nothing but if your satisfied with the lies you have been given so be it. but to egnore what people have given you than that tells me you just choose to remain ignorant. No ones going to listen to someone who chosses to ramain ignorant. You would be bettter off given some type of answer. but if you cant do that just leave youll get no where and I particularly like it when protestants cant answer questions it helps affirm me how wrong you are.

 

[maurin]

**

Why Bother??** Its hard to believe you would say such a thing. No true Christian would even consider the thought.

And you are the arbiter of what a true Christian is? I thought humility had something to do with that definition.

Thank you but because of Christ I will not need to be purged in the fiction place called purgatory.

Once again, it seems that you fall short of the definition with your choice of words. We thank God for Purgatory in your case. It’s how we are absolutely certain that our collective Hope is not for naught.

 

[Kay_Cee]

Well, I’m trying not to take it personally, but my post was completely ignored (post #33). I had some questions that went unanswered too:

Frankly, I’ve never understood imputed righteousness. If our sins are merely covered, like a dung hill with snow (to use Luther’s image), doesn’t that mean the dung hill would enter heaven? Doesn’t that mean sin would enter heaven? Yet nothing impure can enter heaven! Obviously if you have a purity (like heaven) and introduce an impurity into it, you have defiled the purity of the place.

So, in imputed righteousness, what happens to one’s sins at death? If they’re merely covered, doesn’t that mean they’re still there?

 

[abcd]

Well, I’m trying not to take it personally, but my post was completely ignored (post #33). I had some questions that went unanswered too:

So, in imputed righteousness, what happens to one’s sins at death? If they’re merely covered, doesn’t that mean they’re still there?

God can not see our sins because they are covered with the blood of Christ. You or I can never be worthy enough to gain heaven. It is all because of Christ and His sacrifice.

Frankly Im tired of being called a liar just because I credit Christ with my salvation and Him alone. Im tired of when a Catholic does not have an answer they come back with a riddle that can not be answered. So, with that im a signing off for good.

“by Grace alone” “by Faith alone” “In Christ alone” “Glory to God alone”
Scripture alone

 

[maurin]

God can not see our sins

I thought God is Omniscient?