Protestant Pickle

[abcd]

I agree with what the man says. Even though I fully acknowledge God and Jesus and trust in their words I too know that Jesus was not kidding when He said many will try to enter by the narrow gate but few will enter. It takes MORE than just believing it takes COMMITTMENT of one’s life to living that belief. And this is where Uncle and I share a common hope and a compelling FEAR of God and concern that we may not be judged worthy since we know that we sin in defiance to our believed love of Jesus. Our body’s and mind’s do what we do not want to do because the fallen flesh as a consequence of our forefather’s original sin in Eden holds a lingering attraction to sin.

Virtually 100% of all of God’s saints, if you read their writings have a FEAR of God. As holy and pious as these men and women tried to be they knew that their eternal salvation was wholly dependent on God’s mercy as well as God’s justice. St. Francis on his death bed confessed that he was not sure he would be judged worthy. If men such as He had this kind of fear - we should learn by it. The Catholic Church has never taught in terms of numbers saved because only God knows that for sure. But scripture certainly indicates that compared to the many who try to enter heaven few do. That should be sobering to all of us.

If you think all your sins are covered up by simply believing “Jesus saves” are urge you to pray and study the scripture on this or listen to what others here say. We firmly believe that heaven is so profoundly holy that even a trace of a memory of sin that was forgive but committed way back in our youth is enough to keep us out of heaven. We believe that Jesus’ blood does wash away the sin but it does not remove the payment of debt owed for that sin arising from God’s justice nor the consequence for that sin to our soul. We have to “heal” up after forgiven in the same way that a person needs to grow new tissue after the doctor removes a festering tumor.

My friend, we have a long road ahead of us to share with you our faith and our firm conviction of what is required to enter heaven and escape hell is much more than a spoken “I believe”. Trust me please - there is much much more. No one “falls into heaven” by accident and heaven can not be purchased or earned by anything we ourselves can do. It is only by God’s grace and our daily struggle to stay in that grace that any of us has a chance.

We are told to trust in Jesus - and that we must. But we also must cooperate with Jesus and do every single thing He commanded us to do.

James

**You say:
We believe that Jesus’ **blood does wash away the sin but it does not remove the payment of debt owed for that sin arising from God’s justice nor the consequence for that sin to our soul.>>>

By saying the above you are saying Jesus failed on the cross. He paid the debt. You can not pay it. I see why now millions of cradle catholics have left the RC religion because they have no real hope.
With this I quit the forum. For some reason I still get replies even though I unsubscribed.
Bill

 

[maurin]

**You say:
We believe that Jesus’ **blood does wash away the sin but it does not remove the payment of debt owed for that sin arising from God’s justice nor the consequence for that sin to our soul.>>>

By saying the above you are saying Jesus failed on the cross. He paid the debt. You can not pay it. I see why now millions of cradle catholics have left the RC religion because they have no real hope.
With this I quit the forum. For some reason I still get replies even though I unsubscribed.
Bill

That’s right Bill!!! Scripture NEVER speaks of our cooperation being necessary to complete Christ’s Mission. Not even once. Well ok, just once. Well, actually, that’s pretty much what Scripture teaches from Genesis to Revelation. Ok, I take it back. I think you’re mistaken.

Colossians 1:24-29.

Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am filling up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ on behalf of his body, which is the church, of which I am a minister in accordance with God’s stewardship given to me to bring to completion for you the word of God, the mystery hidden from ages and generations past. But now it has been manifested to his holy ones, to whom God chose to make known the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentils; it is Christ in you, the hope for glory. It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. For this I labor and struggle, in accord with the exercise of his power working within me.

before you go:

you never did respond to this. might you please?

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

With this I quit the forum. For some reason I still get replies even though I unsubscribed.
Bill

You could always stop the replies by blocking email from this website on your computer, which would be ironically symbolic.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Hmm- well, there is no original, at least no one has found it…

The seven books were added by the RCC to back up some of their doctrine… even though some scriptures in it contrdicted the other books…

Im not supposed to be getting replies since I unsubscrbed. Guess i will just have to not reply and it will die out eventually.

They were added. The Deutrocanonical Books is 200 written before the time of Christ. It was use as reference by the Apostles and Jesus himself. 2/3 of the NT cite Deutrocanonical Books.

The original King James Bible translation have the Deutrocanonical books and it was not remove until sometime in the 1800s.

The Catholics only added the 27 NT in the Council of Hippo 392 AD and Council of Carthage 396 AD. These Canon of Scriptures were again listed the Council of Florence in 1430 and again in the Council of Trent.

If anyone is guilty of removing Books, it the Protestants. Get your fact straights before you make some false statements. I have seen many Protestants, especially the news ones make outrageous claims about our faith.

You being one of them

 

[Odell]

since abcd is gone I would like to point out all the questions he refused to answer out on the line if any other wondering protestant wants to pick up where he left off feel free to do so as you can see abcd did a very poor job of defending protestants .

Catholics if you didnt get a response to any questions fell free to number them among mine.

QUESTION 1

what does suffering mean to you just a short protestant christian answer?

#2

Did you not say that you are innocent? Why are you disciplined for something you are innocent of?

#3

tell me then how is it that one suffers loss in this state? We dont suffer loss in heaven do we? We dont suffer loss in hell then get out do we?

#4

If suffering has no meaning than how is it we will suffer loss and then be saved by the fire that we are suffeirng from?

This may not be real fire but I explained it is the fire of God from scripture but it realy is suffering and that suffering saves us. Any answers:shrug:

God can do or not do what He wants. He even forgets the sins we have commited after salvation.

And leads me to another question

#5

Did you not say

Originally Posted by abcd
Christians are disciplined on earth one way or another for sins commited on earth. Works done for wrong motives will receive no reward yet I will be saved

so #5 I thought he forgets your sins? How is it you are disiciplined for something he forgets about?

I will have to add he forgives and forgets after repentance but you have to ask for forgivness do you belive this?

Well, I’m trying not to take it personally, but my post was completely ignored (post #33). I had some questions that went unanswered too:

So, in imputed righteousness, what happens to one’s sins at death? If they’re merely covered, doesn’t that mean they’re still there?

Kay Cee Ill make this

#6

So, in imputed righteousness, what happens to one’s sins at death? If they’re merely covered, doesn’t that mean they’re still there?

**You say:
We believe that Jesus’ **blood does wash away the sin but it does not remove the payment of debt owed for that sin arising from God’s justice nor the consequence for that sin to our soul.>>>

By saying the above you are saying Jesus failed on the cross. He paid the debt. You can not pay it. I see why now millions of cradle catholics have left the RC religion because they have no real hope.
Bill

But yet you said
Christians are disciplined on earth one way or another for sins commited on earth

STUMPER

 

[abcd]

since abcd is gone I would like to point out all the questions he refused to answer out on the line if any other wondering protestant wants to pick up where he left off feel free to do so as you can see abcd did a very poor job of defending protestants .

Catholics if you didnt get a response to any questions fell free to number them among mine.

QUESTION 1

what does suffering mean to you just a short protestant christian answer?

#2

Did you not say that you are innocent? Why are you disciplined for something you are innocent of?

#3

tell me then how is it that one suffers loss in this state? We dont suffer loss in heaven do we? We dont suffer loss in hell then get out do we?

#4

If suffering has no meaning than how is it we will suffer loss and then be saved by the fire that we are suffeirng from?

This may not be real fire but I explained it is the fire of God from scripture but it realy is suffering and that suffering saves us. Any answers:shrug:

And leads me to another question

#5

Did you not say

so #5 I thought he forgets your sins? How is it you are disiciplined for something he forgets about?

I will have to add he forgives and forgets after repentance but you have to ask for forgivness do you belive this?

Kay Cee Ill make this

#6

So, in imputed righteousness, what happens to one’s sins at death? If they’re merely covered, doesn’t that mean they’re still there?

But yet you said
Christians are disciplined on earth one way or another for sins commited on earth

STUMPER

I answered most of these questions and not going to answer them again. as for where are the sins imputed. They are cleansed period.

Bill

 

[abcd]

They were added. The Deutrocanonical Books is 200 written before the time of Christ. It was use as reference by the Apostles and Jesus himself. 2/3 of the NT cite Deutrocanonical Books.

The original King James Bible translation have the Deutrocanonical books and it was not remove until sometime in the 1800s.

The Catholics only added the 27 NT in the Council of Hippo 392 AD and Council of Carthage 396 AD. These Canon of Scriptures were again listed the Council of Florence in 1430 and again in the Council of Trent.

If anyone is guilty of removing Books, it the Protestants. Get your fact straights before you make some false statements. I have seen many Protestants, especially the news ones make outrageous claims about our faith.

You being one of them

I will tell you this sir that it is documented that Catholic apologists have actually changed history to prove there argument. Im not going to get into all of that becasue it always proves frutless. Catholics have circular reasoning and it makes it difficult to debate

 

[Odell]

I answered most of these questions and not going to answer them again. as for where are the sins imputed. They are cleansed period.

Bill

You did not answer not one of these question if you did feel free to point me to the post #.

If you would give me an answer or where to find it we may get alittle further.

 

[Uncle_Norbert]

Circular, because our Faith brings us full circle in the Grace of Christ. It is the Protestants, who by their defiance of Authority, come up short in their logic.

They argue, for the sake of arguing, knowing full well that their position is ultimately indefensible.

They make up their own rules, and when they don’t like the rules any more, they split off and form yet another church.

They’ve run out of denominational rules to reject, so they call themselves “non-denominational” (translation: we make up yet more new rules as we go)…the ultimate rejection of authority.

 

[abcd]

You did not answer not one of these question if you did feel free to point me to the post #.

If you would give me an answer or where to find it we may get alittle further.

Is this some kind of indulgence for me? Im not going to answer these again or try to find all of them for you.

 

[abcd]

Circular, because our Faith brings us full circle in the Grace of Christ. It is the Protestants, who by their defiance of Authority, come up short in their logic.

They argue, for the sake of arguing, knowing full well that their position is ultimately indefensible.

They make up their own rules, and when they don’t like the rules any more, they split off and form yet another church.

They’ve run out of denominational rules to reject, so they call themselves “non-denominational” (translation: we make up yet more new rules as we go)…the ultimate rejection of authority.

Many Prot. apologists have won debates with Catholic apologist. Many of your most known catholic apologist refuse to debate James white.

 

[Odell]

I answered most of these questions and not going to answer them again. as for where are the sins imputed. They are cleansed period.

Bill

You never explained why you are diciplined for something God has clensed you from or forgotten. All you have said is that we are diciplined and that we are clean but you never say why we are diciplined when we are clean or how that is even possible

YOU CANT

You never told me how one suffers loss but then is save in this state after death

You never answered what happend to ones sins that are coverd when they die does those sins make it to heaven covered.

Again if you cant give a response dont worry someone else will come along and try.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Many Prot. apologists have won debates with Catholic apologist. Many of your most known catholic apologist refuse to debate James white.

Oh my gosh. James White lost to Tim Staples, Pat Madrid, Karl Keating, and others. He was one of the biggest Anti-Catholic losers ever. He didn’t even won his debate. I actually listen to his Sola Scriptura Debate. He did have a good presentation but Pat destroyed him. Not to mention. What is even worst that Robert Sungenis beaten James White…

 

[abcd]

You never explained why you are diciplined for something God has clensed you from or forgotten. All you have said is that we are diciplined and that we are clean but you never say why we are diciplined when we are clean or how that is even possible

YOU CANT

You never told me how one suffers loss but then is save in this state after death

You never answered what happend to ones sins that are coverd when they die does those sins make it to heaven covered.

Again if you cant give a response dont worry someone else will come along and try.

Yes, I did answer this and I will say it one more time. Your sins are cleansed period, GONE period. You suffer loss in the flesh, ie; smoking, alcohol, whatever.

We are disiplined because that is the natural course God has chosen.

 

[Odell]

Is this some kind of indulgence for me? Im not going to answer these again or try to find all of them for you.

Your pothetic

just because you belive and say you answerd questions you think its true because you say it. you havent answered not one question

You talk people refusing to debate James white what have you done here this isnt a debate a debate means you would have to answer questions that are asked of you.

 

[Odell]

Yes, I did answer this and I will say it one more time. Your sins are cleansed period, GONE period. You suffer loss in the flesh, ie; smoking, alcohol, whatever.

Now we can get somewhere

you said suffering has no meaning but yet suffeing saves us, not only that but the suffering takes place on a particular day
**
WHAT DAY IS THAT YOU SUPPOSE?**

“For no one can lay a foundation other than the one that is there, namely, Jesus Christ. If anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, or straw, the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it.(this is when we die). It will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each one’s work. If the work stands that someone built upon the foundation, that person will receive a wage. But if someone’s work is burned up,** that one will SUFFER loss; the person will be saved, but only as through fire. “**

We are disiplined because that is the natural course God has chosen.

I thought God forgets your sins why are you diciplined for something that he has covered?

Your dancing around the question

why why why why you dont have an answer

 

[abcd]

Your pothetic

just because you belive and say you answerd questions you think its true because you say it. you havent answered not one question

You talk people refusing to debate James white what have you done here this isnt a debate a debate means you would have to answer questions that are asked of you.

Well, I guess the enemy has blinded you or should I say Rome?

Your accusations are false as can be. I got so tired trying to keep with the questions that im giving up answering the same question over and over. I don’t like catholic indulgences.

one of you say James white lost his debates but that is what catholics always say even when they lose. I don’t claim to be an apolgist but I do claim that I trust in Jesus alone.

 

[Odell]

Well, I guess the enemy has blinded you or should I say Rome?

Your accusations are false as can be. I got so tired trying to keep with the questions that im giving up answering the same question over and over. I don’t like catholic indulgences.

one of you say James white lost his debates but that is what catholics always say even when they lose. I don’t claim to be an apolgist but I do claim that I trust in Jesus alone.

all I know is that I still get you dancing around my questions.

all I can do is trust in Jesus alone and not what abcd says

what day is it that the pasage talks about us suffering loss?

and why are we diciplined?

 

[abcd]

before you go:

you never did respond to this. might you please?

1. Who–The oldest manuscripts omit “who”; then translate, “Now I rejoice.” Some very old manuscripts, and the best of the Latin versions, and Vulgate, read as English Version. To enhance the glory of Christ as paramount to all, he mentions his own sufferings for the Church of Christ. “Now” stands in contrast to “I was made,” in the past time ( Col 1:23 ).
   for you–“on your behalf,” that ye may be confirmed in resting solely on Christ (to the exclusion of angel-worship) by the glorification of Christ in my sufferings ( Eph 3:1 ).
   fill up that which is behind–literally, “the deficiencies”–all that are lacking of the afflictions of Christ (compare Note, see on JF & B for 2Co 1:5). Christ is “afflicted in all His people’s afflictions” ( Isa 63:9 ). “The Church is His body in which He is, dwells, lives, and therefore also suffers” [VITRINGA]. Christ was destined to endure certain afflictions in this figurative body, as well as in His literal; these were “that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ,” which Paul “filled up.” His own meritorious sufferings in expiation for sin were once for all completely filled up on the Cross. But His Church (His second Self) has her whole measure of afflictions fixed. The more Paul, a member, endured, the less remain for the rest of the Church to endure; the communion of saints thus giving them an interest in his sufferings. It is in reference to the Church’s afflictions, which are "Christ’s afflictions, that Paul here saith, “I fill up the deficiencies,” or “what remain behind of the afflictions of Christ.” She is afflicted to promote her growth in holiness, and her completeness in Christ. Not one suffering is lost ( Psa 56:8 ). All her members have thus a mutual interest in one another’s sufferings ( 1Cr 12:26 ). But Rome’s inference hence, is utterly false that the Church has a stock treasury of the merits and satisfactions of Christ and His apostles, out of which she may dispense indulgences; the context has no reference to sufferings in expiation of sin and productive of merit. Believers should regard their sufferings less in relation to themselves as individuals, and more as parts of a grand whole, carrying out God’s perfect plan.

 

[jmcrae]

How can these five things be together, if they’re all ALONE?

Good luck; I have been asking this question for eight years now and have never received a sensible answer.

This is actually one of the reasons I finally realized I had to become a Catholic seven years ago - because by the time you make sense of it all, you end up with Catholic theology - so, I figured, why not just start with Catholic theology, and save a lot of time and hassle?