Protestant Predestination Problem

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Nelka

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A friend of mine likes to continually state a certain verse for his saved status.

John 6:44 'No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day.

He always says that God draws certain people but not others and therefore as he is drawn he is saved, whereas those that are not drawn can never be saved.

I tried to explain that we are all initially drawn to God but can choose whether to turn away from this or not.

There is a verse in Romans that he is also attached to but I cannot remember which one but it is similar.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.
 
Nelka said:
There is a verse in Romans that he is also attached to but I cannot remember which one but it is similar.
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Is this what you mean, from Rom 8?
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Rom 8:28 is maybe my favorite verse, and the only one I “pull out” (Protestant-style) on a fairly regular basis. To me, when you love the Lord, you can see how everything – even past insults and injuries to self or loved ones – are all woven into the life of a soul, purifying it and testing it in fire even on earth, in advance of Purgatory. Once our eyes are open into the kingdom, this becomes the default way to see things and it all adds up to a whole lot of gratitude. 🙂

As far as those who are chosen, I’d venture a guess that if I’m drawn to loving Him, or am otherwise fascinated and want to “listen to Him” like his Father said, or “do what He says” like his Mother did, then I can be confident that is a “calling.”

MS
 
Nelka said:
A friend of mine likes to continually state a certain verse for his saved status.

John 6:44 'No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day.

He always says that God draws certain people but not others and therefore as he is drawn he is saved, whereas those that are not drawn can never be saved.

I tried to explain that we are all initially drawn to God but can choose whether to turn away from this or not.

There is a verse in Romans that he is also attached to but I cannot remember which one but it is similar.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.
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I would study up using Catholic answers on John Calvin because this person is obviously influenced by that. When you understand Calvin and what is wrong with what he taught you will then have a better footing on how to refute what your friend is telling you.
 
Nelka said:
A friend of mine likes to continually state a certain verse for his saved status.

John 6:44 'No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day.

He always says that God draws certain people but not others and therefore as he is drawn he is saved, whereas those that are not drawn can never be saved.

I tried to explain that we are all initially drawn to God but can choose whether to turn away from this or not.

There is a verse in Romans that he is also attached to but I cannot remember which one but it is similar.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.
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I’d respond with Luke 18:18-23 “An official asked him this question, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”…”

Clearly the official was drawn to Jesus, but unable to do what was asked of him.
 
frizzgrig said:
I’d respond with Luke 18:18-23 “An official asked him this question, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”…”

Clearly the official was drawn to Jesus, but unable to do what was asked of him.
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Good point, Frizzgrig.👍
 
Wow, have you really done 46 posts in three hours–how can you do that? Is this showing British time or US?
I think the subject of predestination (vs foreknowledge) is troubling for many Catholics as well as protestants. It seems to me Jesus was a bit ambiguous, or at least not definite, on the subject (certainly Jn 6:44 is not a definite statement of predestination).
Yet it was a firm Jewish belief, and St Paul expressed belief, not just in Rom 9:29, but also Eph 1:4 and 7.
The larger issue, I think, is this: how much of life does God control, and to what extent does He give us freedom and free will? Plus, isn’t this another issue where Jesus moved away from (or “fulfilled”) the OT Law.?
In my interpretation, the Trinity intervenes at times He chooses, usually only when we have prayed and asked Him.
 
I think you will find your answers by reading Romans 8 - 10 in their entirety. Once you’ve done that you can probably have an interesting conversation with your friend. IN fact, you might want to consider reading the entire book of Romans in one sitting. It was written as a single letter after all and is more than doable.
 
Nelka said:
A friend of mine likes to continually state a certain verse for his saved status.

John 6:44 'No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day.

He always says that God draws certain people but not others and therefore as he is drawn he is saved, whereas those that are not drawn can never be saved.

I tried to explain that we are all initially drawn to God but can choose whether to turn away from this or not.

There is a verse in Romans that he is also attached to but I cannot remember which one but it is similar.

Any help would be great.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Ah, predestination. Whenever someone brings that up, I like to say, ‘I knew you’d say that.’😛
 
Nelka said:
A friend of mine likes to continually state a certain verse for his saved status.

John 6:44 'No one can come to me unless drawn by the Father who sent me, and I will raise that person up on the last day.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Peace be with you Brother/sister (I am guessing Sister).

It is like when you were in love with someone. You knew you were in love, because you felt the attraction. You did not, however, decide that you are going to fall in love with him/her. You fell in love because something in her/him attracted you.

We cannot say that we want to be attracted to the Lord. We are, however, all attracted to Him, because His love is of the purest kind. Anyone will be attracted to that.

Hope I have explained clearly enough.

Dominus vobiscum.
Andrew
 
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