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sowinskija
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Who are we to judge God’s Infinite Mercy?
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PRmerger
Guest
Primarily the list of what books belong in the Bible.
The ONLY way we know that is through Sacred Tradition.
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18trouble
Guest
see John 6:53-54
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pablope
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Roman_Catholic_1
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
What does Sacred Scripture say?
“I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats of this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh…Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day; for my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink. Those who eat my flesh and drink my blood abide in me, and I in them” Jn 6: 51, 53-56
God bless
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EricFilmer
Guest
No, I am a former Episcopalian.
Many different ways, but one primary way was in learning that the Catholic Church is the Apostolic Church and that Catholic doctrines are sound. My conversion involved prayer, research, debating (initially against Catholicism) and discussions with clergy, both Protestant and Catholic.
Through grace. Grace is provided by God in a variety of ways, with the sacraments being the most powerful means that he has provided.
Generally speaking, the Protestant Reformers redefined a number of pre-existing Church doctrines without claiming (or demonstrating) to have been empowered or directed by God to wield such authority. They skirted this issue by stating that their understanding of doctrine reflected that of the Apostolic Church. But lacking detailed historical records, this basically came down to much of what were their opinions as to what the Apostolic Church taught and believed. This is why the Reformers immediately started disagreeing with one another on doctrinal issues (and consequently different Protestant denominations quickly arose). I’m sure the Reformers thought they had good intentions, so I do not say that it was their intention to be deceptive. But the process itself allowed a kind of deception to be at work, because certain elements of the truth of Christian doctrines got subverted and replaced with erroneous teachings.
Nevertheless, I have no reason to believe that Protestants cannot be filled by the power of the Holy Spirit and the love of Christ. But I do not think that the Protestant Reformation itself was an actual movement of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is about unity, not division. God does not forsake his children, even when in a state of disunity.
Among my favorites are…
“He who does not love does not know God; for God is love.” (1John 4:8)
“For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.” (1Cor 1:22-24)
“Be still, and know that I am God.” (Psalm 46:10)
“You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee.”
- St. Augustine, Confessions
I suspect that you use the term “sufficient” because of 2 Timothy 3:16. The Bible is sufficient for teaching and training (etc.) to equip a person for righteous living (which is what St. Paul was saying), but it is not sufficient for the totality of Christian Faith. For example, whereas the Bible tells us about such things as Baptism and the Eucharist, it actually provides neither.
Not only will I answer your question, but will do so in a manner that takes St. Alphonsus Liguori’s writings (which is where this prayer originated) into full context. This prayer is taking into consideration the role of Mary that God gave her in his plan of salvation for humankind. It recognizes what Mary did (and does) in conjunction with Christ, not apart from Christ. When God announced that he would send a Savior born of a woman (Gen 3:15), Mary became an aspect of humanity’s hope for salvation. When St. Alphonsus speaks of confiding salvation to Mary’s care, it simply means asking for her motherly care when she appeals to Christ on behalf of her children. Christ is the Head of the Church and Christ has a mother, Mary. The mother of the Head is likewise the mother of the Body, including all Christians. She has a motherly spiritual role which St. Alphonsus is simply recognizing, but he never entrusts his salvation to Mary apart from Christ.
For the record, I will be happy to discuss anything I mentioned here in detail. Please feel free to start new threads.
The fullness of God’s revelation. Ultimately, all of God’s revelation comes through Sacred Tradition and the person of Christ. Some, but not all, of Sacred Tradition was set down in the Bible, becoming known as Sacred Scripture. This is what has been historically taught by not only the Catholic Church, but all the various Eastern Orthodox Churches, all the various Oriental Orthodox Churches, and even a few Protestant denominations.
On one hand, the Eucharist is Christ, so a person is not saved without Christ. But I think you’re asking whether or not a person is saved without specifically consuming the Eucharist in Communion. According to Catholic teaching, a person is saved by dying in a state of grace. Baptism puts us in a state of grace, and the Eucharist is a very powerful means to help us live in a grace-filled manner. But the Catholic Church does not teach that a person has to specifically receive the Eucharist in Communion in order to be saved. Consider that there are many children and martyrs that we believe are in heaven who never had the chance to receive their First Communion.
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pablope
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The full flowering of one’s faith that was delivered to the Apostles…paraphrasing from a convert named Scott hahn…
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pablope
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We pray for the mercy of God…but this is what jesus said…in john 6…56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
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crazzeto
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For Catholics to answer:
One must be obedient to the Word of God.
Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
- Were you raised Catholic?
Study of scripture, father’s and particularly of the liturgy. A Christian faith disconnected from history can not be legitimate
Faith in Jesus Christ, and all the it entails. This does include works, it is not enough to believe that your house is on fire, if you want to be saved you have to act and leave the home.
One must be obedient to the Word of God.
Ironically by human tradition which to the modern protestant is, by and large, lost. How many know Luther truly rejected much of the NT, or that the Septuigent was standard until the reformation? How many even know the ancient Christian martyrs have a voice that we can hear today in their own writing? Generally, it seems, most simply accept what is passed on without question as to where it came from?
I’ll be lazy and say “see my signature”
Oh my word. The breast plate of St Patrick? Perhaps the Prayer of St Francis? I run a small Justin Martyr page on Facebook and have selected many fantastic ones there. Perhaps I will come back tomorrow with a better answer.
It has never been sufficient for anyone’s. The earliest Christians would not have had access to one. They required instructions by legitimate authority figures. Read any of Pauls epistles to get a sense of this.
I would. Not that Mary is God, but the Theotokos, Mother of God and queen of heaven. Much like the Israelie kingdom, the King Christ has made his mother queen. In this context, this statement is legitimate because the queen is a most powerful intercessor with her Son the King.
God bless you, I hope my responses help you.
Posted from Catholic.com App for Android
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
Ok
Yes. Born and raised.
Through my most immense knuckleheadness… seriously. I tried all the wrong ways, thankfully He never left my side
By the Grace of God through Faith in Christ Jesus with Works of Love.
It is impossible to speak for Protestantism as a whole. Each denomination is different from the others. Their only common denominator is the denial/ignorance of Church History.
Right now is verses:
Code:
*1*The souls of the righteous are in the hand of God,
and no torment shall touch them.
2*They seemed, in the view of the foolish, to be dead;
and their passing away was thought an affliction
3*and their going forth from us, utter destruction.
But they are in peace.
4*For if to others, indeed, they seem punished,
yet is their hope full of immortality;
5*Chastised a little, they shall be greatly blessed,
because God tried them
and found them worthy of himself.
6*As gold in the furnace, he proved them,
and as sacrificial offerings* he took them to himself.*See my sig
No. It is part of it most definitely and I love it.
Not in my humble opinion. Although I love the Queen of Heaven and my Spiritual Mother.
As you wish.
And you as well my brother in Christ.
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SAVINGRACE
Guest
For Catholics to answer:
No
- Were you raised Catholic?
**I was a member of the Nazarene church attending the Australian Catholic University because the Nazarene do not have a University here or anywhere AFAIK.
- How did God lead you to believe the Catholic faith is true?
We were cruising through the Mass, copying the Catholics, standing, kneeling, sitting, kneeling, standing, responding, shaking hands/hugging for the sign of peace and then we knelt and I heard the words " Lord I am not worthy to receive you but say only the word and my soul shall be healed" and I felt this huge emotional rush, I thought I was going to be lifted off the ground, in an instant I had this overwhelming hunger for the Eucharist. I ran with my Catholic friends to the nearest Priest dispensing the Eucharist and I was so sad that I could not take the Eucharist, the Priest blessed me. Afterwards I knew I was in trouble, I had experienced a life-changing moment. When WYD ended I called my local parish priest and completed RCIA and was accepted into the church in Easter 2009.**
If I don’t die in a state of Grace, then purely the Grace of God will save me.
- How are you saved?
**Protestantism is not a single organism. A Baptist in Kenya is not bound by the same doctrine as say a Baptist from a southern state of the U.S. This is true of many Protestant churches and if people don’t like it they just take off and join another church or start up their own church. Hence the confusion. Thousands of different churches many whose roots started in the 16th/17th or 18Century or last week all claiming to preach the Truth? I don’t think so. The Holy Spirit can never be the author of confusion. Some Protestants think prayer+singing+preaching=worshippping God which Catholics do not believe. Catholics believe the Mass alone is worshipping God. Catholics do not view all prayer or singing as a form of worship. Prayer for the most part is a form of communication between those in Heaven and those on Earth. **
- In what way is the Protestant deceived (I use this word purposely because one would have to be to reject the claim that the catholic church is the only true Church, which is Christ, and to deny Him is to deny salvation…found in repentance, baptism and Eucharist. Paraphrasing from the catholic website).
John 3 vs 16 For God so love the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whomsoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life
- What is your favorite Bible verse?
"Wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" ~ St Ignatius of Antioch
- What is your favorite quote by a saint?
No. The Church formed before the Bible. The Church gave the Bible to the world. Prior to the Bible, the disciples orally taught Jesus Teachings. They formulated Doctrine and then taught the followers. That is Sacred Tradition. The 12 were all annointed, as we do Bishops. After Judas died, they chose a successor, this Apostolic Succhession is still practiced today in the CC. That is Sacred Tradition. They baptised new followers as Jesus taught. That is Sacred Tradition. As the Church grew, they started writing letters and memoirs which were later codified into the first Bible. Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are the two pillars of the Catholic faith.
- Is the Bible all sufficient for your faith?
**It depends on the definition of prayer one chooses for the occasion. Some Protestants have a very narrow definition of the term ‘prayer’. To pray can mean several things, it can mean ‘a request from someone’ or a ‘form of worship’. When Catholics pray to the Saints it is a Petition/Request. In the example above it is a request that Mary pray for us by petitioning her son. As previously stated some Protestants think prayer=worship which is why they usually misinterpret when a Catholic says “yes I pray to the Saints”.
- “I place in you all my hopes; I confide my salvation to your care.” Can this prayer be said to Mary?
You may ask why ask Mary to pray for you, why not ask Jesus directly. We do ask Jesus directly but we also seek the prayers of our family and our friends on earth and in heaven. The Saints are our family and friends in Heaven and they pray for us the same way our family and friends on earth do. Why ask the Saints for prayers? Because their prayers are more efficacious than the prayers of those on earth. The Saints in Heaven have already been sanctified, sin no more and are in the presence of God. Whereas our family and friends on earth may be distracted or insincere in their prayers or have an unconfessed sin on their soul and consequently their prayers while well-intentioned may be tainted. **
None of these responses will be debated but rather reflected upon.
Thank you and God Bless!
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Church_Militant
Guest
Some of this is answered by links to my blog articles.
See My Testimony
See How Is A Catholic Saved?
See Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
I have a lot of them. One is Sirach 8:5 Do not reproach a man who is turning away from sin; remember that we all deserve punishment.
Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words. – St. Francis of Assisi
No. There is nothing in the Word of God that says that it should be. See Does the Bible teach that everything that we believe and practice has to be found in its pages?
I suppose…but I prefer this one.
Code:
**The**** Anima Christi**Body of Christ, save me
Blood of Christ, inebriate me
Water from Christ’s side, wash me
Passion of Christ, strengthen me
O good Jesus, hear me
Within Thy wounds hide me
Suffer me not to be separated from Thee
From the malicious enemy defend me
In the hour of my death call me
And bid me come unto Thee
That I may praise Thee with Thy saints
and with Thy angels
Forever and ever
Amen
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
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CatholicServant
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Only God knows as He is the only Judge - however, he did leave us a blueprint to follow through His Church…
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Goya
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inChristAlone33;10503750]
For Catholics to answer:
None of these responses will be debated but rather reflected upon.
Thank you and God Bless!
For Catholics to answer:
- Were you raised Catholic?
- How did God lead you to believe the Catholic faith is true?
- How are you saved?
- In what way is the Protestant deceived (I use this word purposely because one would have to be to reject the claim that the catholic church is the only true Church, which is Christ, and to deny Him is to deny salvation…found in repentance, baptism and Eucharist. Paraphrasing from the catholic website).
- What is your favorite Bible verse?
- What is your favorite quote by a saint?
- Is the Bible all sufficient for your faith?
- “I place in you all my hopes; I confide my salvation to your care.” Can this prayer be said to Mary?
None of these responses will be debated but rather reflected upon.
Thank you and God Bless!
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Razanir
Guest
This. The biggest flaw in sola scriptura is that the Bible does not contain any verses that say “Only these 66 books are divinely inspired, and most certainly not Sirach, these 6 chapters of Esther, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Baruch, or 1 and 2 Maccabees.”
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amtf_april72012
Guest
- No, I became Catholic last April
- It is a long story, but a short summary is as follows: Raised in a Charismatic Church, family left that Church when I was about ten. In 6th Grade, my family started attending a United Methodist Church. It was here, I would say, that my first true belief in God started. Was baptized in 7th Grade. By my Freshmen Year of HS I had become a Sunday/Wednesday Christian (not that faith didn’t matter, but it wasn’t my center.) That year, my great grandfather, Max Lipinski died at 100. I went to his funeral, which was at a Catholic Parish, and I compared my life and his life, and I saw that he had something I didn’t have, that his faith really meant something to him. I still thought Catholics were a little crazy/confused, but I knew from that day I wanted what he had; a faith that really changed me. I started reading and studying, and (as history shows), as what happened with many Protestants who read more, I eventually got led into Catholicism. (I was also kicked out of my Methodist Church for being too Catholic in my theology and helping to divide more the already divided Church. After that, I became Episcopalian, fell in love with the Liturgy, wrestled with God for a while till I gave in two Epiphany’s ago and asked if I could become Catholic.)
- Jesus’ Life, Death, and Resurrection. Period. End of Story. But if I don’t act on what he did for me, it won’t matter that he did it.
- I would say a lot of the Problem with Protestantism is simply not having the fullness of the faith. Because it does not have the fullness, it will latch on to certain parts of the Truth, and emphasize those, while deemphasizing, even disparaging the other parts. Here’s an illustration: the Salvation Army puts a huge emphasis on Social Justice. This is inline with Biblical teaching. But, then it puts so much emphasis on it that it actually rejects the two Sacraments that Protestants agree on, Baptism and the Eucharist. Or the Baptist/Evangelical Churches, that put a high emphasis on belief in the Divinity of Christ, how his death saves us from sin, et cetera. They will often emphasize this so much that (for example) if a person says a phrase like the “Person of Jesus Christ”, they automatically try to defend the Divinity of Christ (forgetting that he was/is also human), or not even do Social Justice activities because it detracts from getting people saved. In Catholicism, we can see all these working in harmony (Jesus is True God and True Man, Evangelism and Social Justice go hand in hand, et cetera)
- “Then Peter said to him in reply, ‘We have given up everything and followed you. What will there be for us?’ Jesus said to them,…‘And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life.’” (Matthew 19:27-29) Jesus kept his promise in my life. No matter how awkward it can get at home (I am the only one who converted), the family of my confirmation sponsor, my godfamily will always be there for me. I actually call them dad and mom (not that I have truly “lost” my family at home, but it is insanely great to have two, and at least one united to me in an extremely close way.)
- Non nisi te, Domine! (Nothing but you, Lord!) -St. Thomas Aquinas, who I chose (or rather he chose me) as my confirmation patron.
- No. It is a singularly important gift, but it is not all sufficient. Without the Church, we would have no idea what books would be in a Bible (let alone what a Bible is). That being said, I would say it plays a pretty central role in my life. Read from the OT, the NT, the Psalms, and the Gospels every morning, hear it at Mass everyday, then I reread the Mass Readings at evening Prayer (along with any other random time I take it out to read. It is generally with me all the time [something huge I got from my Evangelical background!]).
- I generally don’t use prayers like that, but theologically speaking it does fall under orthodoxy.
-Anthony Michael Thomas Fisher
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inChristAlone33
Guest
Great quote!See my sig
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inChristAlone33
Guest
Thank you for your response. I especially liked the quotes mentioned and the different perspectives listed here.
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inChristAlone33
Guest
You have made us for yourself, O Lord, and our hearts are restless until they rest in Thee."
- St. Augustine, Confessions
- Status