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grampben
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Those bad boys questioning authority and getting burned at the stake.Actually, they were apostate Catholics, so they don’t qualify.
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JRKH
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I appreciate that Protestants hold these people in high regard, but as Della pointed out, I did specifically ask to avoid those early persons of the reformation precisely to avoid this kind of friction.
Peace
James
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eric_sammons
Guest
I can’t believe I forgot both Dietrich Bonhoeffer and C.S. Lewis in my list. They are my two favorite 20th century Protestant Christians.
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Della
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There’s a lot of misinformation out there about that period of history, so it isn’t surprising that people would repeat it here.
And, I am serious about my choices. Lewis was a great help to me when I was having a spiritual crisis in my life. I often pray for the repose of his soul and thank God for the witness of his life. As for Betsie ten Boom, if more people, Protestant and Catholic were to set the kind of example she did, we’d be living in a world of peace and love, something which all Christians should want to achieve.
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GKC
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Ridley it was. And Liz’s hands, while cleaner, were not pristine.
There was this pursuivant named Topcliffe…
Not all Anglicans would consider Calvin, or anyone else named here, as Saints in this sense. Or, likely, any sense. The only consensus add-on Saint I know of might be Charles, King and Martyr. Though, sure, you’ll find folks who make a case for Lewis. I’m rather fond of him myself. But I don’t find him on the Kalendar.
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GKC
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Executed by Charles VII’s folks, as it happened. With a little help from Henry VIII.
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grampben
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It was not a ‘federal crime’, this is not the USA we’re talking about.
But according to the catholic church, all protestants are apostate catholics are we not?
The state did nothing to Wycliffe until his translation got popular. It wasn’t him anti-icon beliefs or his belief in consubstantiation that got him killed, it was his translating of the Bible into the vernacular. Imagine the peasants actually knowing the word of the Lord?!?!?!
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With_Questions
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Good list. I would add some of the anabaptist martyrs:
- Felix Manz
- Michael Sattler
- Dirk Willems
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MarcoPolo
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This was the first name that popped into my head when I saw the subject line.
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Della
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If you’d like you should start a new thread on this topic so this one isn’t hijacked. But, I will say that your claim that the Catholic Church considers all Protestants apostate Catholics is not true. You should read the Catechism of the Catholic Church as to what the Church teaches before making such a claim–so you’ll know what the Church teaches and what it doesn’t. After all, no one, Catholic or Protestant should want to be repeating misinformation about anyone’s beliefs, should they?It was not a ‘federal crime’, this is not the USA we’re talking about.
But according to the catholic church, all protestants are apostate catholics are we not?
The state did nothing to Wycliffe until his translation got popular. It wasn’t him anti-icon beliefs or his belief in consubstantiation that got him killed, it was his translating of the Bible into the vernacular. Imagine the peasants actually knowing the word of the Lord?!?!?!
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GKC
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This is the sort of thing you find the various Anglicans riding off in all directions on. I have seen some indications that Lewis was considered “Blessed” at least, and a Saint, by some, and I do recall a prayer invoking his intercession. It’s not illogical. But it’s not general. You can find folks who do the same for Martin Luther King.I thought I read that a prayer invoking the intercession of Lewis was approved and in use in the Anglican communion. I tried to find it in
Google, but couldn’t.
You know us Anglicans. Like herding cats. Me, I’m pushing the *causa *for Chesterton.
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Publisher
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I know that Trinity Stores has an icon of Deitrich Bonhoeffer…I think it’s by artist Robert Lantz…
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GKC
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Fisher
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According to Scripture anyone who is born again by faith in Christ is a saint. Paul wrote to all the saints (Christians) in Rome:
“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 1:7
Many other verses express the same truth:
“Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;” Ephesians 3:8
“…Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,” Jude 1:14
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” Ephesians 4:11-12
(See also Acts 9:13; 9:32; 9:41; 26:10; Romans 8:27; 12:13; 15:25; 15:26; 15:31; 16:2; 16:15; 1 Cor-inthians 6:1, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, plus dozens of other New Testament references.)
The question is, why pray to anyone else when the God of the universe is in heaven waiting to hear and answer prayers?
Are “saints” intercessors?
The nagging question you must answer here is: Why would the you rather pray to dead men than to the living, all-powerful, prayer-answering God?
Keep in mind that if these traditions of men are not true, then all your prayers to “saints” are but worthless chatter.
If you pray to God, though, you may claim many wonderful Biblical promises:
“Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” Hebrews 4:16
“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 1:7
Many other verses express the same truth:
“Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;” Ephesians 3:8
“…Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,” Jude 1:14
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” Ephesians 4:11-12
(See also Acts 9:13; 9:32; 9:41; 26:10; Romans 8:27; 12:13; 15:25; 15:26; 15:31; 16:2; 16:15; 1 Cor-inthians 6:1, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, plus dozens of other New Testament references.)
The question is, why pray to anyone else when the God of the universe is in heaven waiting to hear and answer prayers?
Are “saints” intercessors?
Code:
Jesus Christ is our only intercessor. Therefore, to suggest otherwise is but a man made tradition.Keep in mind that if these traditions of men are not true, then all your prayers to “saints” are but worthless chatter.
If you pray to God, though, you may claim many wonderful Biblical promises:
“Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” Hebrews 4:16
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grampben
Guest
I meant in the way that we are not in full communion with the church etc…If you’d like you should start a new thread on this topic so this one isn’t hijacked. But, I will say that your claim that the Catholic Church considers all Protestants apostate Catholics is not true. You should read the Catechism of the Catholic Church as to what the Church teaches before making such a claim–so you’ll know what the Church teaches and what it doesn’t. After all, no one, Catholic or Protestant should want to be repeating misinformation about anyone’s beliefs, should they?
I have read much of the CCC and I’m sorry for mistaking beliefs. Though both sides are guilty of this from time to time on NC religions.
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JRKH
Guest
Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut, but it is off topic on this thread.According to Scripture anyone who is born again by faith in Christ is a saint. Paul wrote to all the saints (Christians) in Rome:
“To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 1:7
Many other verses express the same truth:
“Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;” Ephesians 3:8
“…Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,” Jude 1:14
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:” Ephesians 4:11-12
(See also Acts 9:13; 9:32; 9:41; 26:10; Romans 8:27; 12:13; 15:25; 15:26; 15:31; 16:2; 16:15; 1 Cor-inthians 6:1, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Ephesians 1:1, plus dozens of other New Testament references.)
The question is, why pray to anyone else when the God of the universe is in heaven waiting to hear and answer prayers?
Are “saints” intercessors?
The nagging question you must answer here is: Why would the you rather pray to dead men than to the living, all-powerful, prayer-answering God?Code:Jesus Christ is our only intercessor. Therefore, to suggest otherwise is but a man made tradition.
Keep in mind that if these traditions of men are not true, then all your prayers to “saints” are but worthless chatter.
If you pray to God, though, you may claim many wonderful Biblical promises:
“Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.” Hebrews 4:16
If you would lkie to join in with the spirit of the topic please do. Otherwise I would suggest a fresh thread to discuss the “Saint” term and issue from the perspectives you bring up.
Peace
James
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GKC
Guest
I know. That’s why I’m pushing it.I should have remembered that!
Chesterton’s diocese doesn’t take the idea seriously. They can’t understand why anyone would want to canonize a popular writer. Apparently they’ve never read our GKC or bothered to look into his life.
But Chesterton himself would have laughed himself thin over the idea.
GKC
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