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Ghoti
Guest
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Hisalone
Guest
I was always impressed with the story of the two Moravians who sold themselves into slavery so that they could bring the Gospel to an island of slaves.
Two young Moravians heard of an island in the West Indies, where an atheist British owner had 2,000 to 3,000 slaves. And the owner had said, “No preacher, no clergyman will ever stay on this island. If he’s shipwrecked, we’ll keep him in a separate house until he has to leave but he’s never gonna talk to any of us about God. I’m through with all that nonsense.”
Three thousand slaves from the jungles of Africa brought to an island in the Atlantic and there to live and die without hearing of Christ. Two young Moravians heard about it. They sold themselves to the British planter then used the money they received from the sale, for he paid no more than he would for any slave, to pay their passage out to his island for he wouldn’t even transport them.
And as the ship left the …river at Hamburg …left it’s pier at the river at Hamburg and was going out to the North Sea, carried with the tide. The Moravians had come from Herrnhut to see these two lads off, in their early twenties, never to return again. For this wasn’t a four-year term, they’d sold themselves into lifetime of slavery. Simply that as slaves they could be as Christians for these others were.
The families were there weeping for they knew they’d never see them again. And they wondered why they’re going and questioned the wisdom of it. And as the gap widened and the houses had been cast off and were being curled up there on the pier. And the young boys saw the widening gap, one lad, with his arm linked through the arm of his fellow, raised his hand and shouted across the gap the last words that were heard from them. They were these: “May the Lamb that was slain receive the reward of His suffering” And this became the call of Moravian missions. And this is the only reason for being, that the Lamb that was slain may receive the reward of His suffering.
heartsforchrist.net/evangelism/evangelismtools.htm
Two young Moravians heard of an island in the West Indies, where an atheist British owner had 2,000 to 3,000 slaves. And the owner had said, “No preacher, no clergyman will ever stay on this island. If he’s shipwrecked, we’ll keep him in a separate house until he has to leave but he’s never gonna talk to any of us about God. I’m through with all that nonsense.”
Three thousand slaves from the jungles of Africa brought to an island in the Atlantic and there to live and die without hearing of Christ. Two young Moravians heard about it. They sold themselves to the British planter then used the money they received from the sale, for he paid no more than he would for any slave, to pay their passage out to his island for he wouldn’t even transport them.
And as the ship left the …river at Hamburg …left it’s pier at the river at Hamburg and was going out to the North Sea, carried with the tide. The Moravians had come from Herrnhut to see these two lads off, in their early twenties, never to return again. For this wasn’t a four-year term, they’d sold themselves into lifetime of slavery. Simply that as slaves they could be as Christians for these others were.
The families were there weeping for they knew they’d never see them again. And they wondered why they’re going and questioned the wisdom of it. And as the gap widened and the houses had been cast off and were being curled up there on the pier. And the young boys saw the widening gap, one lad, with his arm linked through the arm of his fellow, raised his hand and shouted across the gap the last words that were heard from them. They were these: “May the Lamb that was slain receive the reward of His suffering” And this became the call of Moravian missions. And this is the only reason for being, that the Lamb that was slain may receive the reward of His suffering.
heartsforchrist.net/evangelism/evangelismtools.htm
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Irish_Kathy
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In my previous post, I failed to mention all the Amish children who died while they were simply in school. I am absolutely certain that they all must be Saints as well. We can all learn a thing or two from these particular children about faith.
Kathy
Kathy
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Fidelis
Guest
With all due respect…
…BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-!!!
…
…Thanks, that WAS a great laugh!!
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Irish_Kathy
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Someone else that occured to me is Martin Luther King.
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Irish_Kathy
Guest
And here, as they say, are the facts. I’ll begin with the first few paragraphs. Then, if you’re interested in learning more, I’ll give you the link.Exsqueeze me?
Patrick was born in 385 western Great Britain into a high-ranking Roman Christian family; he died in Ireland in 461, though some accounts put his death later. His grandfather was a priest and his father–Calpurnius–was a deacon, as well as prosperous nobleman and local Roman official. Patrick’s native language was Latin.
His birth name was, reportedly, Maewyn, and the Latin name Patercius (Gaelicized to “Patrick” by the Irish) was given to him by Pope Celestine just before his mission to Ireland, as a token of the fruitfulness of his future mission, which would make him the pater civium (father of the people) of the Irish race.
And here’s the rest of the story:
cin.org/users/james/files/patrick.htm
Kathy
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leonie
Guest
Lilian Trasher–the Mother Teresa of Egypt.
prayerfoundation.org/books/book_review_ywam_lillian_trasher.htm
She was reared Catholic, but left the Church. She had a vocation to the single consecrated life. If she had stayed in the Church, I’m sure that God would have multiplied her work even more!!
Her selflessness, zeal, and reliance on Divine Providence is trully beautiful.
prayerfoundation.org/books/book_review_ywam_lillian_trasher.htm
She was reared Catholic, but left the Church. She had a vocation to the single consecrated life. If she had stayed in the Church, I’m sure that God would have multiplied her work even more!!
Her selflessness, zeal, and reliance on Divine Providence is trully beautiful.
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ASimpleSinner
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I think I am going to enjoy your exposition on how Pastor Patrick was a Protestant… If you even could demonstrate that he was not sent to Ireland by the Pope of Rome, I would love to see how from there you would demonstrate that Saint Patrick’s faith would be more recognizeably Catholic than Protestant. He was a monastic, supported the same, a priest then bishop, than ordained the same…
Protestant Patrick? I am anxious to see this one. You truly are becoming MyFavoriteMartin…
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Irish_Kathy
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That’s a really cool picture of Pope John Paul II!!!
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Irish_Kathy
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In my opinion, any Chaplain of any denomination has a special place in my heart. I think they all deserve our prayers.
Kathy
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Ghoti
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Thanks for the link.
BTW…if he’s a Roman from a Roman family whose first language is Latin, how did he end up with the name Maewyn? It’s got two letters the Latin alphabet didn’t even have. Even a Romanized Briton would have a Latinized name, especially if all his forebears bore Latin names and lived in a Latin town. Unless, of course, his mom decided that she wanted an unusual name for her little one, so he’d stand out at day care (and unusual spellings like “Tytis” or “Markiss” weren’t original enough…)
Seems to me that the Patrick legend still has a little too much foam, not enough stout.
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ASimpleSinner
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I know that this is going to get me into some trouble with some - I am hoping folks will be fair minded and hear me out though.
As much as some of these folks we have cited seem to demonstrate an abiding faith and a courage of conviction, I am truly hard pressed to see the levels of sanctity and holiness in the Protestant community that we see among Catholic saints… If for no other reason than our firm and abiding faith in the efficacy of the sacraments - namely confession and the Eucharist - for our growth in holiness.
Without access to those, however dedicated and sincere believers in these other confessions are, they will always be missing a tool for growth in sanctification.
As much as some of these folks we have cited seem to demonstrate an abiding faith and a courage of conviction, I am truly hard pressed to see the levels of sanctity and holiness in the Protestant community that we see among Catholic saints… If for no other reason than our firm and abiding faith in the efficacy of the sacraments - namely confession and the Eucharist - for our growth in holiness.
Without access to those, however dedicated and sincere believers in these other confessions are, they will always be missing a tool for growth in sanctification.
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mozart-250
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The anabaptist martyrs (see Michael Sattler and Felix Manz).
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Irish_Kathy
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What about all the Jews that went to concentration camps.
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johnnydigit
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wouldn’t it impossible for a protestant to be a Catholic Saint, purely by definition? there is a long process in becoming a Saint, and i think not attending Mass and rejecting the Church might be the first problem. it’s more like “who has lived like a Saint”?
now a “protestant Saint” might pose a problem, because there would be no agreement to who is a Saint, other than in a specific protestant denomination. kinda hard without authority…
now a “protestant Saint” might pose a problem, because there would be no agreement to who is a Saint, other than in a specific protestant denomination. kinda hard without authority…
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ASimpleSinner
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What about them exactly? They can’t essentially be understood - by virtue of their victim status - to be martyrs in the definition the Church offers. Even secular folks who essentially only had Jewish ancestory were made victims… Folks with no faith, non-practicing or even converts it didn’t matter - Jewish grandparents, did.
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Ghoti
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The Jews of the Holocaust were persecuted primarily for racial reasons – as you say, Jewish ancestry was considered a “taint” that could only be “cleansed” by sufficient generations of gentile ancestry: altho’ that too could be problematic, if such gentile blood came from Gypsies, Slavs, or any other “subhuman” ethnic or cultural groups. I say “primarily” racial, because I believe in the Nazis’ eyes, one could “adopt” the taint of Jewishness by converting to Judaism.
In the case of Christian martyrs, one could in many/most cases avoid martyrdom by abjuring Christianity; that was not an option for the Jews.
According to the Wikipedia entry on Edith Stein, as a convert to Catholicism, she had previously been spared from execution, altho’ I believe it was probably more to appease the Catholic Church in the Netherlands than over any respect for a converted Jew; indeed, when the Dutch bishops spoke out against the Nazis, the Nazis rounded up and deported the converts, St Edith included. The reason for her death was her being a Jew, not because she was a Catholic; she had only received a temporary reprieve possibly due to the expedience (in the eyes of the Nazis) of her Catholicism. Once that was no longer useful to the Nazis, she was treated like every other Jew that fell into the paws of the Nazis.
I do not doubt that there are Protestants who lead saintly, righteous lives, and who could possibly qualify for canonization or the title of “martyr” had they only been Catholic. This might fall into the purview of “baptism of desire” as I understand it from a Catholic apologetics site I looked at. Without limiting the mercy and justice of God or the authority of His Church, I generally look at it thus: There’s a passage in the Gospels (I don’t know where) where Jesus tells the parable about a man who had two sons. He tells them both to go work in the fields. The first says, “Sure, Pop! Glad to,” but then buzzes off to the camel races or the movies or whatever. The second says, “Hah! Not likely, old man! The “Ten Commandments” is playing at the Palms!” but goes out and works in the field anyway. Jesus asked, who is doing the will of the father? So I kind of see the first son as being a symbol of the Catholics in name only, who talk a good game but don’t do the Lord’s work; and the second son as being the righteous non-Catholics, who although saying they don’t belong to the Church, show otherwise through their actions (sort of a RC take on the “righteous Gentile”).
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leonie
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True, it’s kind of rebuke for we Catholics who have the sacraments but have not risen to the level of virtues of these very Godly Protestants.
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ASimpleSinner
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Or conversely we can wonder how much farther those who so internalized and and committed themselves to the best understanding they had of discipleship could have gone with the sacraments.
This is a casual and anecdotal observation I admit… but it is something I have mulled around in my noodle for a decade.
In high school I had a teacher who was the poster boy of organized and effective. Like some sort of amalgamation of everything Tony Robbins and Stephen Covey ever taught about setting goals and managing time and being effective. He was an Evangelical who left our Catholic School to become a music pastor and lead a small but growing Evangelical private school. He was very popular and likeable.
At the end of the day he was remarkably effective, well organized and worked tirelessly. “Protestant work ethic” being what it is, these qualities were associated with great devotion and perhaps a sense of Divine Blessing (and surely they were) but are these the qualities alone that we look for in saints?
I am having trouble coming up with examples of “Protestant saints” who were the simple and the humble and the no-names in their lifetime. The Blessed Andres, the Ven. Solanus Caseys…
Most of the examples we are hearing on this thread thus far represent the well-known and effective, those who attained leadership and were able to “make a name for themselves” so to speak…
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