Protestant saying hello

[justasking4]

Forgive me if I sound crass. For I am short on patients today. I do not understand how you can even begin to doubt the Holy Traditions held By Christ Catholic Church when you as A SDA holy to a tradition of Saturday Sabbath as the only correct day for sabbath worship. Which goes contrary to New Testament writings of observance of the Lords day which is Sunday. this is though in both Scriptures and Apostolic Tradition.

To reject the Holy Traditions of the Church is to reject Holy Scripture and to reject those is to reject Christ. I pray that my brother and sister in the protestant churches will have the blinders removed from their eyes to be able to see the On Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of the Lord Jesus Christ. Until that day you live in darkness with only select truth by the one who founded your sepreated faith sometime in the last 500 or less years.

Maybe you can help me. Do you know where some kind of list of all the Holy Traditions of the Church can be found?
Is there a source for this? Will it tell me when these Holy Traditions started?

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe you can help me. Do you know where some kind of list of all the Holy Traditions of the Church can be found?

There is no “list.” It is a culture and a way of life; not a set of lists.

Is there a source for this? Will it tell me when these Holy Traditions started?

The source is Christ, and it started when Mary said, “Be it done unto me according to thy word.”

 

[guanophore]

Maybe you can help me. Do you know where some kind of list of all the Holy Traditions of the Church can be found?
Is there a source for this? Will it tell me when these Holy Traditions started?

Why do you keep asking this same question, ja4? You have already made it clear that anything you don’t see in your Bible is nothing more than the “speculation of men”. Is the continual posing of this question part of you ruse to get others to become a “Bible Christian” (true believer) as you consider yourself? What made you decide to use CAF as a platform for evangelism?

 

[justasking4]

jmcrae;3436212]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Maybe you can help me. Do you know where some kind of list of all the Holy Traditions of the Church can be found?

There is no “list.” It is a culture and a way of life; not a set of lists.

Quote:
Is there a source for this? Will it tell me when these Holy Traditions started?

The source is Christ, and it started when Mary said, “Be it done unto me according to thy word.”

I was really hoping that i was going to get a solid answer that we could really study. I’m quite amazed that something that is so foundational to the claims of the Roman Catholic church cannot be truly understood even by its own members. At least with the Scriptures we can study passages, words and context to arrive a clear meaning to much of the texts but not with the Sacred-Holy Tradiitions of the catholic church.:banghead:

 

[justasking4]

Why do you keep asking this same question, ja4? You have already made it clear that anything you don’t see in your Bible is nothing more than the “speculation of men”. Is the continual posing of this question part of you ruse to get others to become a “Bible Christian” (true believer) as you consider yourself? What made you decide to use CAF as a platform for evangelism?

I was hoping that there might be some catholic out of the millions might know what these are. Thats why i will usually ask a catholic who claims these Sacred-Holy Traditions might know exactly what they are. Sadly i have been so disappointed…:crying:

 

[jmcrae]

I was really hoping that i was going to get a solid answer that we could really study. I’m quite amazed that something that is so foundational to the claims of the Roman Catholic church cannot be truly understood even by its own members. At least with the Scriptures we can study passages, words and context to arrive a clear meaning to much of the texts but not with the Sacred-Holy Tradiitions of the catholic church.

It is analogous to the concept of Western Civilization. When a baby is born in the West, he takes on certain basic assumptions - that one eats with a knife and fork, or else with one’s hands, or else with a spoon (but not with chopsticks); that Shakespeare is the definitive master story-teller (not Lao Tse); that stories have morals; that one is supposed to be kind and generous; that cannibalism is a sin - if one were to attempt to make a list, it would never end, and then someone might say, “Well, I have seen Westerners eating with chopsticks in certain restaurants,” or they might say, “But some Westerners admire the work of Lao Tse,” - so you can see how it might get complicated to try to explain it. Western Civilization is about 600 years old, and encompasses Northern Europe and North America, so there is a lot of stuff to get through and to try to explain.

The Holy Tradition is nearly 2,000 years old, and encompasses the whole world, and so there is even more stuff. But (unlike Western Civilization) the Holy Tradition was given to us by Jesus Christ.

 

[guanophore]

I was really hoping that i was going to get a solid answer that we could really study.

ja4, I have told you time and time again, it is not possible for you to have access to these. They can only be studied by people who believe they exist. Sacred Tradition is not like doing some sort of scientific inquiry as you seem to believe. You are very stuck on your “facts”. This will prevent you from apprehending matters of faith. Why not just move on? You have lived this long without them. You have repeatedly said you don’t need them, and that whatever “speculations of men” have to say, it will not change your faith. I do not understand why this bothers you so much. To use the words of Obi Wan Kenobi “Let go, Luke!”

I'm quite amazed that something that is so foundational to the claims of the Roman Catholic church cannot be truly understood even by its own members.

Perhaps this is the answer to the question I just posted. Perhaps the reason you continue to bring this up is to slander Catholics. First of all, the Roman Rite is not the only recipient of the Sacred Traditions. Secondly, just because you are not satisfied with the “lists” you have been provided does not mean that Catholics do not “understand” the Traditions. Your failure to believe they exist does not equate to others’ lack of understanding.

At least with the Scriptures we can study passages, words and context to arrive a clear meaning to much of the texts but not with the Sacred-Holy Tradiitions of the catholic church.:banghead:

One purpose of the Sacred Tradition is to rightly interpret scripture. If you have already rejected such a fundamental notion about the Tradition, how will knowing more of it help you any? You are already behind! If you really genuinely interested (a fact which your previous posts deny), then why not content yourself with what you have first? If you want to study Sacred Tradition, begin with how the Bible was written, preserved, and promulgated.

 

[jmcrae]

I was really hoping that i was going to get a solid answer that we could really study.

If you want to study the Catholic Faith, you should join an RCIA program.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3436294]
Originally Posted by justasking4
I was really hoping that i was going to get a solid answer that we could really study.

guanophore
ja4, I have told you time and time again, it is not possible for you to have access to these. They can only be studied by people who believe they exist. Sacred Tradition is not like doing some sort of scientific inquiry as you seem to believe. You are very stuck on your “facts”. This will prevent you from apprehending matters of faith.

Nonsense. i suspect even you don’t know what they are. If you are going to use them to defend your church then you might want to know exactly what they are. Calling something “Sacred Tradtion” may sound impressive but if you don’t know what they are then all they are but speculations that can’t even be verified.

Why not just move on? You have lived this long without them. You have repeatedly said you don’t need them, and that whatever “speculations of men” have to say, it will not change your faith. I do not understand why this bothers you so much. To use the words of Obi Wan Kenobi “Let go, Luke!”

Actually i would think you would be bothered since it appears by your responses you don’t know either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinnon06
I’m quite amazed that something that is so foundational to the claims of the Roman Catholic church cannot be truly understood even by its own members.

Something is wrong with my post here. Do you know why “kinnon06” is quoted instead of me? Perhaps your copy-paste buttom is not working properly.

guanophore
Perhaps this is the answer to the question I just posted. Perhaps the reason you continue to bring this up is to slander Catholics.

You misunderstand what slander means. Trying to understand something is not slander.

First of all, the Roman Rite is not the only recipient of the Sacred Traditions. Secondly, just because you are not satisfied with the “lists” you have been provided does not mean that Catholics do not “understand” the Traditions. Your failure to believe they exist does not equate to others’ lack of understanding.

You and others have given me good reasons they don’t really exist by your responses. O’ well—

Quote:
Originally Posted by kinnon06
At least with the Scriptures we can study passages, words and context to arrive a clear meaning to much of the texts but not with the Sacred-Holy Tradiitions of the catholic church.

Same problem with the source as above.

One purpose of the Sacred Tradition is to rightly interpret scripture. If you have already rejected such a fundamental notion about the Tradition, how will knowing more of it help you any? You are already behind! If you really genuinely interested (a fact which your previous posts deny), then why not content yourself with what you have first? If you want to study Sacred Tradition, begin with how the Bible was written, preserved, and promulgated.

Since this is a discussiong formn and people who use the terminology would at least know what it is they are talking about would be quite able to tell me exactly what this is. Again i was sadly disappointed and insulted for asking----:crying:

 

[jmcrae]

You misunderstand what slander means. Trying to understand something is not slander.

You are not “trying to understand” anything. You think you know it all, and you think you are going to “edjikade” us dumb Catholics.

Don’t think we’re not on to you.

 

[justasking4]

You are not “trying to understand” anything. You think you know it all, and you think you are going to “edjikade” us dumb Catholics.

Don’t think we’re not on to you.

There must be some special “gift” that catholics have that they think they can read minds over the internet. Your the third person i have encountered that has this gift. The last One who read the minds of men lived 2000 years ago.

What does “edjikade” mean?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Maybe you can help me. Do you know where some kind of list of all the Holy Traditions of the Church can be found?
Is there a source for this? Will it tell me when these Holy Traditions started?

The CATECHISM of the Catholic Church for starters also do a search for teachings of the Apostles. These have all been given before with examples posting them again of no use…

 

[pete_29]

There must be some special “gift” that catholics have that they think they can read minds over the internet. Your the third person i have encountered that has this gift. The last One who read the minds of men lived 2000 years ago.

What does “edjikade” mean?

edjikade, ya no tich us,lern us, mak us smaret likeu.

 

[justasking4]

edjikade, ya no tich us,lern us, mak us smaret likeu.

now i understand ye:thumbsup:

 

[justasking4]

The CATECHISM of the Catholic Church for starters also do a search for teachings of the Apostles. These have all been given before with examples posting them again of no use…

The catechism as i understand it is essentially a summary of catholic teachings. Does the catechism claim to be Sacred Traditions?

I did a search as you suggested and this is what came up on
the Didache. This is what it said in part:

The Didache claims to have been authored by the twelve apostles. While this is unlikely, the work could be a direct result of the first Apostolic Council, c.50 C.E. (Acts 15:28). Similarities to the Apostolic Decree are apparent, and the given structure of the church is quite primitive. Also, the description of the Eucharist (bread and wine) carefully avoids mention of the “body and blood of Christ,” obviously being regarded as one of the secret mysteries of eary Christianity. Most scholars agree that the work, in its earliest form, may have circulated as early as the 60’s C.E., though additions and modifications may have taken place well into the third century. The work was never officially rejected by the Church, but was excluded from the canon for its lack of literary value.

The complete text of the Didache was discovered in the Codex Hierosolymitanus, though a number of fragments exist, most notably in the Oxyrhynchus Papyri. It was originally composed in Greek, probably within a small community.

 

[Protestant101]

Maybe you can help me. Do you know where some kind of list of all the Holy Traditions of the Church can be found?
Is there a source for this? Will it tell me when these Holy Traditions started?

They won’t give you a specific list. I have been asking them for a long time. But they have admitted how that some “tradition” is NOT found in the NT. Very curious reaction to a simple question indeed.

 

[justasking4]

They won’t give you a specific list. I have been asking them for a long time. But they have admitted how that some “tradition” is NOT found in the NT. Very curious reaction to a simple question indeed.

I agree. Trying to discuss these kinds of things without getting them on defensive is one difficult task. I think part of the problem is that when you have been taught your church cannot be wrong in matters of faith and morals and that Jesus Himself is present in their church the idea that they could be misled is unthinkable even when faced with the facts that show otherwise.

 

[Protestant101]

Men are the source of (t)radition. These are customs and ways of doing things. However, God is the Source of Sacred Tradition, which is the Teaching of Jesus through the Apostles. Of course not all of it can be found in the Bible. Apostolic faiths are not “bible based”, so it is not surprising that their beliefs may not be able to be “proved” from Scripture.

The Bible cannot be “infallible”. This word applies only to entities capable of action. The Church is “infallible”. The Scriptures are inspired-inerrant. Scripture is not “denigrated” when properly interpreted. On the contrary, it reaches it’s fullest Purpose when it is properly interpreted. Scripture does not read and interpret itself. Every time a person reads it, it is read through the lens of their perceptions.

Infallibility does not just apply to entities capable of action. This is a straw man of your own invention. Infact, Catholics make a special display of saying THEIR doctrines are infallible, if it is officially approved doctrine, by a Pope. And besides, the Word of God actually is capable of action.

You say “Of course not all of it can be found in the Bible.” and this is my whole point. Scripture does indeed interpret itself, that is how God made it.

 

[Protestant101]

I agree. Trying to discuss these kinds of things without getting them on defensive is one difficult task. I think part of the problem is that when you have been taught your church cannot be wrong in matters of faith and morals and that Jesus Himself is present in their church the idea that they could be misled is unthinkable even when faced with the facts that show otherwise.

Yes, and all they will do is say: “read the Catechism,” because that of course is what they want people to be doing. But the long and short of it is that they simply will not/cannot give us a list, for they know that scripture will denounce their tradition and their catechism. (IMHO).

 

[justasking4]

Yes, and all they will do is say: “read the Catechism,” because that of course is what they want people to be doing. But the long and short of it is that they simply will not/cannot give us a list, for they know that scripture will denounce their tradition and their catechism. (IMHO).

i do think it would be an interesting study and help us to understand church history and how this came to be.