Protestant saying hello

[guanophore]

You are cluthing at straws here; you have no basis by which to call someone online that you never met “bigoted.” How do you know, unless you can read minds?

I agree, and so I have not. As I have said, I do not know if the member is role playing for effect, or not. It may be that he really does not believe what he writes. However, the content and tone of the post represent anti-Catholic bigotry. I honestly believe that he got if from elsewhere. It appears he has been on a steady diet of it for years, and it just regurgitates here. I recently learned that the same attitude is held against the Muslims! So clearly, it goes across the board, so to speak. Only God knows the heart, and only God can judge a man. However, we are called to discern actions, and that, I have done.

Before the Pope named her; Mary existed in the Bible’s great prophecies, as the virgin who would give birth to the Messiah.

However, as fond as Catholics are becoming of naming “the woman” in Revelation 12 as “Mary;” it would be very poor exegesis to do so; for when we consider other Bible texts related to this passage; it is plain to see that this text has nothing to do with “Mary.” I think I will start a topic on rev.12 later tonight when I have time. This would be worth exploring further.

Ok. This has been done on numerous threads, and there is probably already one open. Revelation is apocalyptic literature, and is multilayered. Any one image can carry many interpretations. For example, we know that the Son born of the Woman is the Saviour of the world, so Mary is a appropriate understanding of the image. There are others as well.

There is NO proof of where Mary’s tomb actually is, it is all guesses and wishful thinking. An empty tomb proves nothing, unless evidence can be seen of what happened to the body. It’s not “the word of the Lord” to tell lies and rumors to your children

I agree. The same grave robbers who took Jesus body could have taken Mary’s. Persons have ample evidence of Mary. Protestants can’t accept this, because it would debunk the myth of Sola Scriptura.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

i have been following this thread from the beginning to one degree or other. It started by stating that the person is in the process of joining the Catholic church and asking what pr0oblem he may encounter from family to 2 people who have all kinds of problem with Church teachings arguing and ignoring every piece of evidence presented to them in defence of the Faith. I do not understand how those that are protestant can come to a Catholic site and purposely be so argumentative, but then I don’t really understand who one can be a protestant in the first place. I here them demand answers to questions then when they don’t like the answer they call them lyes. They reject The teachings of the Church that they say are not supported but scripture but refuse to acknowledge that It was the Catholic church in 3rd and 4th century that took all the writings of the 1and early 2nd century and said these are what we will teach to compile the New testament. All so that Scripture became the outline for what Christ church teaches not the beginning and end of it. We must also remember that ST Paul and ST Peter as well as all the Other Apostle believed that Christ would return In their life time so a lot of the things they taught were not written down till much later. Also as time moved on and different heresies presented themselves the Church then had to make dogmatic proclamations to combat these which if you look at things with a closed mind and tunnel vision appears to be a new teaching when in fact is nothing more that a clarification of teaching. To come to a site such as this and ask the laity to address teachings ( Traditions ) of the Church going back 1990 years more or less is unfair. Most of us Except Church teaching as we and protestants except scripture Catholic except them as given from God and Christ through the Apostles and Bishops. We can not find any thing to show that after 1500 years God said wait your doing it wrong and then every few years keeps saying still not right got to change something else.

Have there been those in the church that have misused what God has granted to his Church over the years? yes and though it may have taken sometime to do so the Church as corrected those errors admonished those that made them and taken steps to see that they don’t happen in the future. We must remember that even though the Bishops are Lead by the Holy Spirit that they are still human and sometimes have chosen mans spirit instead of the Holy Spirit. that is the error of the individual not the Church.

In writing this I know what I want to say I do not know if the word I write convey that the way it is in my Head and Heart. I do know that If I am Looking for God And Our Lord Jesus Christ It is much easier to find Them In the Catholic Church And though Not all of the Teaching of the Church make since to me I can not go in out right opposition to The Holy Apostolic Church To which I see no where But what is Found in the Church know to All as the Catholic Church.

there are protestant out there that I can leave to there beliefs and not worry much about for there separation for the Church was more political or misunderstanding at the time of there founding and i feel that one day unity will come back. But there are other sects that Mormons, JW, SDV, to name as few that worry me for their varying degree of false teachings. May God open there eyes to show the teaching of man they follow instead of the teaching of God.

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3455657]
Originally Posted by justasking4
There just is no getting around that your church has contradicted the Scriptures when it claims Musliums and Christians worship the same God. The God of Christianity is Trinity and Islam denies this. This is a fundamental difference that cannot be wished away. Were not even talking about the same God. It denies that Christ was God and died for our sins. To deny that Christ died for sin is to condemn yourself.
Allah is not the god of Abraham.

guanophore
By whatever name you call Him, He is the One God, the God of Abraham. God made this promise to the father of the Muslims:

Gen 17:19-21
20 As for Ish’mael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation.

The Muslims are the Descendants of Ishmael. They worship the God of Abraham.

Do you believe that the God of the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses is the same God of Christians?

 

[justasking4]

…besides, worry less about the speck in your Muslim brother’s eye, but rather, consider the beam across your own!

Your “Justasking” tag is dishonest. You are more interested in accusations than enquiry.

Empty yourself and either Come Home, or at least take the load off your feet and head and rest awhile in the ‘shade’ of the Ol’ Church!

Your response makes me think you are not to knowldegable of the Scriptures. If you were you would not make such a statement like this for the mere fact that all the prophets and apostles were adamant against false teachings.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you believe that the God of the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses is the same God of Christians?

There is only one God. How can they worship some other god, if no such other god even exists?

If we say that they are worshipping “another god,” then we fall into the heresy of believing that there can be more than one God.

 

[guanophore]

Do you believe that the God of the Mormons is the same God of Christians?

God revealed Himself to Abraham, and Abraham taught his family about God. He taught Ishmael the same things he taught Isaac. The Muslims are the offspring of Ishmael, and they understand God the way Ishmael did. Since Ishmael is not the son of the promise, and was made to leave the camp, his understanding of God is limited.

There is only One God, the God of Abraham, so yes, He is the same. however, some do not have a full revelation of Him. the Jews and the Muslims rejected God’s revelation of Himself in Christ, so their understanding of God is limited. For example, they don’t understand or accept the Trinity.

The God they have worshipped for millennia did not “change”, just because Jesus came.

Your response makes me think you are not to knowldegable of the Scriptures. If you were you would not make such a statement like this for the mere fact that all the prophets and apostles were adamant against false teachings.

It is ok, ja4, we know you are here.

 

[Protestant101]

I’m confused. It seems that most roman catholics get agiated very quickly when someone counters their claims (fullness of the truth etc). In my expierence with some, they can get down right nasty and insulting if you don’t agree with them. For those who are like this its probably best them not to venture out into the real world where you will encounter some serious challenges and they won’t be so nice. I personally have known only one roman catholic that has been able to take the heat… it would have been great to find some here…

LOL; there are a few in every crowd; but the really nice ones don’t seem to post too often. (IMHO)

 

[guanophore]

Ahem…God revealed Himself to be a Trinity back in Genesis!

We see that clearly now, just as we see the Protoevangelion, and the suffering servant passages in Isaiah. We are looking back through the lens of enlightenment, and everything looks different. The Jews did not understand Genesis that way, and the Muslims do not either. But they are “people of the book” to the extent that they cling to the truth they understand.

A good study on the effects of perception is the movie “The Sixth Sense”. It is amazing how differently we see things after more truth has been revealed.

 

[Protestant101]

There is only One God, the God of Abraham,

As we are told in Deut; “one God” is in the collective sense; meaning more than one. It’s hard to imagine the Jews not understanding that to be “the Trinity;” except they likely used a different terminology to say the same thing.

If Jesus did not die on the cross; and if this death was not a sacrifice for our sin; if the need for His death is minimized or nullified, then that religion which teaches so is falsehood; and does not worship the same God as Christians.

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Some Catholic “Traditions” trivialize the need for “Christ and Him crucified.” This is one reason why the Bible must be the final Word.

 

[guanophore]

As we are told in Deut; “one God” is in the collective sense; meaning more than one. It’s hard to imagine the Jews not understanding that to be “the Trinity;” except they likely used a different terminology to say the same thing.

It is hard for us, looking back through the lens of enlightenment. But to them, the main Truth that separated them from the peoples that surrounded them is the Shema “The Lord Our God is One”. We understand that God is One in three Persons from the Revelation of Christ, and the Apostles. The Jews and the Muslims have not received this, so they cannot see.

If Jesus did not die on the cross; and if this death was not a sacrifice for our sin; if the need for His death is minimized or nullified, then that religion which teaches so is falsehood; and does not worship the same God as Christians.

This conclusion does not follow. The truth that God has revealed to the non-Messianic Jews and the Muslims (who are children of Abraham) is still true. It is not the fullness of Truth, but the later revelation does not nullify the first. It fullfills the first.

Some Catholic “Traditions” trivialize the need for “Christ and Him crucified.” This is one reason why the Bible must be the final Word.

I do not understand what you mean here, can you explain?

 

[Kallukalam]

How do you see that this is an error? Did you not know that the Muslims are the sons of Esau? do you not remember that God promised to make of him a great nation also? They worship the God of Abraham.

Gunpore:

My understanding was Muslims are the sons of Ismale.

SJ

 

[Good_Fella]

There is NO proof of where Mary’s tomb actually is, it is all guesses and wishful thinking. An empty tomb proves nothing, unless evidence can be seen of what happened to the body.

There is no evidence of a body. If Mary were still resting in the earth, her remains would have been kept by the Church for veneration, as were the remains of Peter and Paul and countless other saints, especially since Mary is the mother of our Lord. Her tomb is in the valley of Josaphat.

http.//www.newadvent.org/cathen/1477a.htm

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[Good_Fella]

As we are told in Deut; “one God” is in the collective sense; meaning more than one. It’s hard to imagine the Jews not understanding that to be “the Trinity;” except they likely used a different terminology to say the same thing.

The Trinity is exclusively a Christian doctrine. There is no Trinity in Judaism. Jesus was sentenced to death by the Sanhedrin for claiming to be equally one with God. The expected Messiah will have a biological father according to Judaic eschatology.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[JohnnyReb]

What makes you say it is such a significant change? There are many Protestant bodies that do not have a “Bible alone” approach. I have noted that passionate Pentecostals who begin to study church history seem to have an easier time embracing Aposolic faith when they realize that it has been unbroken over the last two millenia.

Perhap the issues that are “critical” to you (stumbling blocks) are not for others?

Amen to that. You just summarized my storying of coming into the Catholic church in a few sentences.

 

[guanophore]

guanophore;3452535:

How do you see that this is an error? Did you not know that the Muslims are the sons of Esau? do you not remember that God promised to make of him a great nation also? They worship the God of Abraham.

Gunpore:

My understanding was Muslims are the sons of Ismale.

SJ

Yes, thanks. Mixing my family history up there!

 

[jmcrae]

Some Catholic “Traditions” trivialize the need for “Christ and Him crucified.” This is one reason why the Bible must be the final Word.

You have obviously never been inside a Catholic Church - or if you have, you didn’t know what you were looking at. (Psst, that statue of a guy hanging off the big plus sign thingy, that’s up over the altar? That’s supposed to be a representation of Christ crucified.)

Also, ever been to Mass? The priest just never shuts up about Christ being crucified for our sins - it seems like he mentions it in every single prayer, and then again in the homily, and then again in the next set of prayers, and on and on for like an hour or something. Every (un)bloody time he says Mass, too.

 

[wisdomseeker]

To the Eternal One be Glory forever.

My boyfriend converted to the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. This saturday he was baptized, first communion and confirmation. and he is going to continue on RCIA for two more years.

 

[jmcrae]

To the Eternal One be Glory forever.

My boyfriend converted to the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. This saturday he was baptized, first communion and confirmation. and he is going to continue on RCIA for two more years.

YAAAAY!!! :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy:

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

To the Eternal One be Glory forever.

My boyfriend converted to the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. This saturday he was baptized, first communion and confirmation. and he is going to continue on RCIA for two more years.

Thanks be to God We all welcome him home to the Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Thanks be to God We all welcome him home to the Church.

Thank you all so much and God bless!