Protestant seeking answers . . . (long - SORRY!)

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Disconector,

The way you wrote about you and your fellow Assem. of God people forces me to say:
  1. Admit it, you were prejucided against Catholocism.
  2. Do not think you are going to learn Catholic Theology by attending a Catholic Mass (church). You have to contact a Priest and let him tell you what to do. The Priest will know. Go see a priest.
3.If you go to Mass, don’t expect a lot of people to come to you and talk. They go there to pray and worship.
  1. I am not surprised you have found that Sola Scriptura is WRONG.
 
Richard, it is great to see someone discovering all these things. I remember Scott Hahn’s story and it reminds me of it so much. I think your wife will be worried about all the books, but then as well it might get her curiousity as well. That was how Kimberly Hahn was when she saw Scott lugging in all those books. I think you need to read Scott and Kimberly Hahn’s story, “Rome Sweet Home”, and you’ll be surprised at the many parallels your story has with theirs, and maybe get a few pointers there as well. God bless!
 
Hello Richard,
try going to catholicculture.org this site rates Catholic sites on various criteria such as fidelity to Church teachings and ease of use etc…

Although catholicculture.org gives the following site a Caution rating it is because they have lumped 4 sites into one review. I found this site to be quite helpful.

Type (the catholic treasure chest) into your search engine and it will show you the link.

Good Luck - God Bless
 
I am in the process of figuring out how to get some of these books to my home without scaring the daylights out of my poor long suffering wife
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Another reason why you should read up about the Hahn family.
Kimberly Hahn is the daughter of a protestand minister, and was very happy to be the wife of a protestant minister.
Scott’s conversion was very troubling for her.
But God works wonders with these situations.

If you go to mass, remember that even though you cannot yet receive the eucharist - you may still join in the communion line and receive a blessing from the priest.
My children who are too young to receive communion come in line with us. When it is their turn they cross their arms over their chest and bow their heads - the priest then blesses them.
Anyone can do this.

BTW - I was a cradle catholic who was considering leaving the Church at one time in my young adult years.
Actually, I was poorly catechized and did not know very much about my own faith. You will find this is quite common with many catholics.

Anyways…I prayed the same prayer you did, and God kept me in the Catholic Church.

May the Holy Spirit guide you to truth during this coming year.
What an exciting adventure you are about to experience!
 
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Disconnector:
I am SO EXCITED about this journey that He has set before my feet. Scripture is absolutely leaping off of the page for me - I have never had more hunger for the Word of God than right now. It is possible that I could end up back where I began, but my heart tells me that is unlikely. The structure of my childhood faith has been shaken and the foundation may have been damaged beyond repair. I am simply going to throw myself upon His mercy and compassion.
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It seems to me that the Holy Spirit is leading you if scripture is breaking open for you in a new way. But if you think about it for a moment, scripture doesn’t teach that scripture is the foundation of the Christian faith, scripture teaches that Christ is the foundation of the Christian faith, which why as a Catholic I can recognize you as brother Christian.

The Catholic Church recognizes that while she has differences with the AoG, she also has many things in common:… in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly condemned. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.

The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church- whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church–do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.

Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

… Catholics must gladly acknowledge and esteem the truly Christian endowments from our common heritage which are to be found among our separated brethren. It is right and salutary to recognize the riches of Christ and virtuous works in the lives of others who are bearing witness to Christ, sometimes even to the shedding of their blood. For God is always wonderful in His works and worthy of all praise.

Nor should we forget that anything wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brethren can be a help to our own edification. Whatever is truly Christian is never contrary to what genuinely belongs to the faith; indeed, it can always bring a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church.

DECREE ON ECUMENISM - UNITATIS REDINTEGRATIOThis document from Vatican II teaches that within the AoG are found “significant elements and endowments” from the faith of the Catholic Church, and these “elements and endowments” help bring about the sanctification of the members of the AoG. For example, there is a veneration of the scriptures that is due the word of God to be found within the AoG, and this is something that the Catholic Church deems both praiseworthy and efficacious for building up the holiness of the members of the AoG. (The New Testament that the AoG venerates was written entirely by members of the Catholic Church, and these scriptures properly belong to the Catholic Church – the scriptures are part of the Catholic Church’s endowment from God).

more …
 
continued …

Converting to Catholic Church is a win-win situation for you. You will get to keep ALL the true things that are to be found in the AoG (e.g. love of scriptures), since these truths are “from our common heritage”. In addition to the truths that you already possess, you will find additional truths, since the Catholic Church alone possesses the fullness of truth. The only thing that you will be giving up from the AoG are the errors that it teaches, and these are things that you want to be rid of anyway.

The books that have been recommended to you are excellent, and I won’t add to that list. I would, however, recommend that you try to make contact with someone in the Catholic Church that is both orthodox and “charismatic”. A charismatic Catholic will understand and appreciate the gifts of the Spirit that you are already familiar with.

God bless you on your journey! :clapping:
 
Rich-

I’m sure this is an extremely difficult situation for you and I sympathize. You have gotten a lot of good advice from others, and eventually you will be moved one way or the other by God’s grace. There is something peculiar I have observed about the type of people who convert from Catholicism to Protestantism and those who convert from Protestantism to Catholicism that I think may help you.
Have you noticed the number of seriously committed Protestants who have converted to Catholicism? There are lots of them, and their books are wonderful. Scott Hahn, Marcus Grodi, John Henry Cardinal Newmann, James Akin, David Currie, etc - all serious, educated, committed Protestants who converted to the Catholic Church.
Now I ask you, “Where are the serious, committed, educated ex-catholics who converted to Protestantism?” I can’t find them. Maybe I’m biased, but I see the weakest of Catholics being the ones who are drawn to Protestantism. And don’t get me wrong - I attend an Evangelical Church with my wife and I have many Christian friends from the church - I’m not just Protestant bashing here.
You’re a classic example. You are well read and have studied much and I can tell you right now that the more you investigate Catholic theology the more you will be drawn to the Church. Sola Scriptura is difficult to justify. In the end those who adhere to Sola Scriptura have so little that they can all actually agree on (the five solas - and even some of them are debatable) that they have to agree to disagree yet pretend they are “united” in faith. And we’re not talking about little issues, we’re talking about big stuff: necessity of baptism, infant baptism, contraception, once saved always saved, Real Presence, etc.
Be sure to read the Early Church Fathers with an open mind. Do their beliefs seem more in line with Catholicism or Protestantism?

Food for thought?

PHil
 
Praise be to the Father, whose name is above the Heavens and Earth! FOR YOU ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!

My wife and I went to dinner last night (Grandma was watching the kids). As we were conversing, the Holy Spirit began to prompt me to pour my heart out to my wife concerning the difficulties that I am finding within our AoG faith. My wife and I try to maintain a 100% honest relationship and I simply cannot lie to her or conceal things from her. I felt a direct prompting in my heart to “come clean” with all of my doubts and the spiritual journey that I am facing.

My wife and I met at Valley Forge (the Evangelical Bible College that I spoke of) and were married while we students in 1992. She comes from a very conservative fundamentalist background . . . her parents specifically believe that all Catholics are bound for Hell. She is very thoroughly inculated into all of the values and beliefs of the church. So I expected quite a bit of resistance and fear when she learned of my inquries into Catholicism.

Instead, she is supporting me 110%. It shames and humbles me when I remember her response to my confession. Without a pause she told me that whatever decision I make she would support because she is confident in the Lord’s leadership of our home. She even agreed with me on some of the doctrinal issues that had been raised by my studies. Truely, the Lord is gracious and His mercies are new EVERY morning!

“Charismatic” Catholics? Sounds VERY interesting :love:

I’ve heard of them before, but have never really investigated them. A*re their beliefs in alignment with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church? ***

I’ve been reading “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” by Karl Keating. What an eye opener! I can’t wait to reduce this to a position paper to argue with some of my more theologially minded friends. The fireworks will be glorious!

Also, as someone mentioned, I’m going to contact the local Parish and see if I can borrow some books. The budget can’t begin to support the books that I am going to need 😃

Once again, God bless you all and keep the resources coming! I’m saving all of the websites that are mentioned and writing down all of the reference materials. You folks are truely “the Hands and Body of Christ”.

Rich B
 
Welcome home (almost anyway)! My wife and our two kids recently joined the Catholic Church after years spent searching in the Protestant denominations. Much of what you said sounds very familiar to me. As far as book recommendations, the Catechism of the Catholic Church has got to be at the top. I have to admit that I stopped reading it not long ago. I was trying to read it from cover to cover, but people keep handing me more and more great books to read. I’ll probably pick it back up sometime soon. Other books might include Rome Sweet Home by Scott Hahn, although some of Hahn’s more recent writings concerning the supposed feminine nature of the Holy Spirit are a little “out there”. Read him with a critical eye. I recently began reading Salvation is from the Jews by Roy Schoeman, and have been very impressed by this Catholic writer. If you haven’t already read Saint Augustine’s *Confessions, *I’d suggest that as a small taste of the wonderful literary tradition available within the Church. Like others have said, I would recommend G.K. Chesterton. His book on Saint Francis, for example, is really a remarkable introduction to this saint. If you enjoy C.S. Lewis, I’d recommend *C.S. Lewis and the Catholic Church *by a Catholic scholar named Joseph Pearce. Karl Keating’s book on fundamentalists is also good, but beware… As a former Protestant, it becomes pretty clear that Karl Keating doesn’t quite understand the distinctions between the Protestant denominations and tries to lump them all together at times. Still, a lot of good can be drawn from the work.

If you’re anything like me, Marian doctrines may be a major issue for you. I thought they were going to be an insurmountable obstacle, but that did not turn out to be the case. In fact, I recently completed an essay on Mary’s place in the Church. If you’d like a copy, drop me a note.
 
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Disconnector:
“Charismatic” Catholics? Sounds VERY interesting :love:

I’ve heard of them before, but have never really investigated them. A**re their beliefs in alignment with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church? **
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Hi Rich,

The Charismatic Renewal is alive and well here in SoCal. Here are some articles on the subject:
servantsheart.faithweb.com/ Click on “links” then on “resource articles”.

Servant’s Heart is a Charismatic prayer group very close to my heart…the prayer group I am a member of is very tight with them. Feel free to browse their website to get a feel what a Charismatic Catholic group is like.

God bless you on your journey!

He is risen!:bowdown: :bowdown:
 
Another good resource is the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal). The GIRM basically states the rules for the Mass. The GIRM is useful for determing what you should do during Mass (an example would be “do we hold hands during the Our Father, or should we pray using the Orans position?”)Whenever you attend Mass, it should be the same wherever you go. Here is a link to the GIRM online:

usccb.org/liturgy/girm/

Mass is broken up into the Liturgy of the Word (first) followed by the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Like people have said, the missals (which are in the pews) tell you exactly how to respond, etc. Remember, before you enter your pew, genuflect towards the tabernacle. If you have any questions about what happened at Mass, feel free to let us know. Oh, depending on which parish you go to, you might hear Latin during Mass. Especially on Sundays, you will probably hear the Latin hymns, “Sanctus” and “Agnus Dei” during the Mass. I will try to find the lyrics so you can have them when you attend. Ok, good luck!

Dominus Vobiscum

-Stephen
 
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Disconnector:
Charismatic" Catholics? Sounds VERY interesting :love:

I’ve heard of them before, but have never really investigated them. A**re their beliefs in alignment with the Magisterium of the Catholic Church? **
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It is not possible to generalize about all charismatic Catholics, since some charismatic Catholics are more Protestant than they are Catholic. But it has been my experience that charismatic Catholics are among the most orthodox members of the church.
 
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Jadesfire20:
Hi Rich,

The Charismatic Renewal is alive and well here in SoCal.
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If only we could get Rich to the Southern California Renewal Communities’ Catholic convention in Anaheim … 🙂

Rich, I found this link on the SCRC website, thought you might be interested: Azusa Street Centennial - April 25-29, 2006

The 100-year anniversary of the great Azusa Street Revival will be celebrated and commemorated with 5 days of unprecedented ministry in Los Angeles April 25-29, 2006. This remembrance of what has been termed “the world’s greatest revival” will feature multiple venues from the Los Angeles Convention Center to the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum and will draw thousands of believers from around the world. Further information can be found on the Web at azusastreet100.net.
 
Richard,

I’m blown away, our stories are very similar. I was raised Protestant, stumbled on the Catholic Answers radio show, heard some interesting things, got “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” figuring I’d chew it up in a couple of days as a bunch of Catholic nonsense, couldn’t do it, and decided to spend one year in study and prayer to let God tell me what to do.

The cornerstone was the question of authority; once I ran aground on that it was all over. Within 60 days I was calling myself a Catholic. It took another 6 months to drag my emotions into line with the act of the will I knew that I had to make. I entered the Church at the 2004 Easter Vigil, and the instant I received our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament something opened up inside of me like a gushing spring.

You’ve got leads on enough material to keep you intellectually backlogged for quite a while, so I’ll just offer moral support. If you think you’ve experienced God’s goodness before, strap yourself in tight, pal, ‘cause you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!
 
Richard, I’ll probably get flamed for this but I would suggest you read works by prominent Protestant apologists with regard to sola scriptura as well. The Catholic apologist viewpoint may sound convincing…until you have heard or read thorough rebuttals from competent Protestant apologists. There is an excellent article by the late Greg Bahnsen available on the internet titled: “Is Sola Scriptura a Protestant Concoction?” It is well worth a look.

Keep in mind, that if you reject “sola scriptura” in favor of the RCC the flip side is you must then accept “sola ecclesia” and all that entails: Mary as immaculately conceived, sinless mediatrix alongside Jesus…her assumption, body and soul…papal infallibility…etc. Doctrines that inject man-developed theology into the plain reading of God’s Word.

Just out of curiosity, I don’t understand something. You said you accepted Jesus as your Savior. Why is that not enough “fullness” of the Truth?
 
Welcome Home! In addition to reading their books, you can also contact Karl , Scott and Kimberly Hanh, Jeff Cavin and Stephen Ray. Several of them were protestant ministers who discovered the Truth. Remember always to “seek first the kingdom of God”, everything else will come in due course.

May the love of God our Father, the peace of His Son Jesus Christ, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you always.
 
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arcturus:
Just out of curiosity, I don’t understand something. You said you accepted Jesus as your Savior. Why is that not enough “fullness” of the Truth?
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Because Jesus requires more of his disciples than a single moment of obedience. He wants them to live in obedience for life. If Jesus did establish a Church for His disciples and follow intend subsequent followers to be members of that body, His bride, then it is an act of obedience to determine what that church is and be a part.

I do think you have a fine idea that anyone struggling with the issue should read both sides. I turned John MacArthur after *Catholicism and Fundamentalism. *I am convinced that he, too, will find no (zero)scriptural support for sola scriptura, making it a self-contradictory proposition.
 
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arcturus:
Richard, I’ll probably get flamed for this but I would suggest you read works by prominent Protestant apologists with regard to sola scriptura as well. The Catholic apologist viewpoint may sound convincing…until you have heard or read thorough rebuttals from competent Protestant apologists.
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I think thats a fantastic idea. The beauty in that suggestion is that you will see how flawed the Protestant doctrine of Sola Sciptura is, and how Christianity was NEVER Sola scripture. Read Jurgens Faith of the Early Fathers to see what Christians believed from the beginning. I know it has helped me immensly reading both sides which has definitely strengthened my faith.

Also, accepting doctrine on Mary, and all the other stuff protestants get all excited about are easy once you have established the authority of the Church as commanded by Christ. Plus, another point, is that all doctrine on Mary is Christocentric. No problems at all.
 
Disconnector,
Welcome, I enjoyed reading your story and woudl like to offer some book suggestions as well as some other sources. First, this forum is a great source for information and support, and the corresponding website has loads of information and books for sale. There are some wonderful shows on EWTN. you can even take a peek at the Mass on EWTN to see what goes on, and you can ask questions regarding the Mass here. The Journey Home by Marcus Grodii is an inspiring show. Grodii was an evangelical Christian who found the Catholic Church and his show focuses on guest speakers from every religious background who converted to Catholocism. If you see anything on EWTN with Scott Hahn, watch it! Dr Hahn was a self admitted anti-Catholic Presbeterian minister who discovered the Catholic church, and I believe he is the best apologist and conveys Biblical and theological knowledge like nobody’s business. If you can get ahold of any of his books, watch any of his specials on EWTN, it is well worth it.

The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn, is all about how the book of Revelations is closely tied to the Mass, he discusses the Eucharist, it explains much of the symbolism and shows Revelations as a book of hope.

*Sacraments in Scripture *by Tim Gray is a quick and easy read to introduce you to the sacraments what they are, scriptural basis, and gives a short sweet introduction of why Catholics believe that the sacraments give salvific grace from Christ, rather than being a mere symbol of faith.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, it is a huge book that tells the teachings of the Catholic Church with scriptural reference as well as Traditional references. Mine only cost about $8. You can also find a guide to help you get through it. This book is a must for studying the Catholocism.

I would guess that with your background you have already read Aquinas and Augustine. If not, fit them in someday.

There are alot of inexpensive Catholic apologetics books at the Catholic Answers radio website. catholic.com/ You could spend all night reading information from that site.

Walking into a Catholic church is a good idea, just remember that the members are only human and there have been many priests I got along with very well and a few I could hardly bear, if you meet a priest you don’t jive with, just try to find another. You can also enroll in an RCIA class just to learn more about the Church, when you are comfortable.

I woudl love to discuss any questions you might have, just send an IM and I will try to answer as quickly as possible, if not I will hopefully see you in the forums.
 
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